PeopleArePeople Posted January 24, 2013 Posted January 24, 2013 I have yet to post my extimony, but here is a little back story. I told my parents about three months ago that I was no longer a Christian. I am in my 30's with a family of my own. The first month after I told them, they refused to speak to me. My relationship has gotten a little better with my mom the last couple of months. Since we started speaking again, she will randomly send me e-mails with the hope of changing my mind. At first I just ignored them. I hoped that she would stop, and I didn't want to strain our relationship any further by responding.This week she sent me two e-mails about how WRONG evolution is. I had to respond, although I think I did it in a nice way. I sent her links to a couple of different articles about the misconceptions of evolution. Here is one of the links that she sent me in case you needed a laugh today. http://www.remnantofgod.org/creation.htm I sent her my response this morning, and this is what I just received from her... (Me), After reading through the articles it is very apparent to me that you have chosen “science” as your god. Even though one of the articles state that one of the myths of evolution is that it’s a “religion”, if you stop and really think about it, it is a religion. In fact it takes way more faith to believe in evolution than it does the Bible. I want you to stop and consider something. If you live your life believing in the Bible one of two things could happen: If it all really is true, You will be in heaven for eternity, and you will receive a perfect body that will never get sick and die again. If it is false then at least you lived your life as a really nice, caring person, and you will simply cease to exist when you die. On the other hand, If you live your life as an atheist or agnostic one of two things could happen: You are right and you will cease to exist when you die.. It’s all false, the Bible is right and you will have to endure God’s wrath and spend eternity in the lake of fire where God says three times in Mark 9:44,46,48 - Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. Notice the personal pronoun “their” in that verse. What I am about to explain will probably seem bizarre to you, but your dad and I believe this is what will happen to you when you die because you have outright rejected God’s free gift of salvation. Whether it’s true or not, or whether you believe it or not, you have a 50% chance of this actually happening to you. If the Bible is right, God says He created Adam & Eve in His image, they later disobeyed him and as a result of sin, their fellowship with God was broken. Their bodies would eventually die and without a blood sacrifice, their souls will burn in hell for an eternity.. The Bible indicates man’s soul has a bodily shape, it has a mouth, a tongue & can wear a robe (See Luke 16:24; Rev. 6:11; Rev. 7:14), and we can lose it. Mark 8:36 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul. John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Perish does not mean we cease to exist. According to the laws of science that you have put your faith in, matter does not disappear, it simply changes forms (i.e. ice, water, vapor). What if the brilliant educated scientists have it backwards? They say we started out as an amoeba (a worm) and evolved over millions of years into a human. What if we actually started out as humans and eventually our souls (which have a bodily shape) changes into a worm? Think about it, how is sin passed down? Through the male seed. And what does the male seed look like? A worm/serpent/snake. What part of the body did God tell Abraham to cut & why did He ask him to do that? Because God knows man’s seed is corrupt and his blood is no good. God’s first covenant with Abraham would not permanently redeem man. He had to make a new covenant using His own seed (the Lord Jesus Christ who is the Word of God – John 1:1) and offer his perfect blood as a sacrifice for man’s sin. 1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth forever. If we choose to believe and accept His free gift, we will not have to endure God’s punishment. Jesus actually took our place on the cross and became a worm (sin), and shed his blood & gave his life as a perfect sacrifice. 2nd Corinthians 5:21- For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin ; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. Psalms 22:1&6 My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? Why art thou so far from helping me,……But I am a worm, an no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people. Numbers 21:8 And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live. John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up. All throughout the Bible, the devil is pictured as a snake, serpent, dragon or a worm. Look at the symbol used for the American Medical Association. I wonder where that came from! What I am saying is, if you reject God’s free gift (his payment for your sin), you will become like your father (the devil) when you die, but if you accept His Son, the Lord Jesus Chrsit, you will become like your Father (God) and have a perfect body like the Lord Jesus Christ had when he rose from the dead. You have been presented with the truth throughout your entire life and you will have no excuse as to why you rejected His Son when you stand before God at the last judgment. That’s why I will never give up praying & trying to persuade you to believe what God said in His book is true and not rely on what scientist say. Romans 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar. Either way it goes, as a Bible believer (notice I didn’t say Christian) I have a win-win situation. You on the other hand only have a 50% chance your afterlife will be enjoyable. My question to you is this, Why would you teach your children to believe in something that only gives them a 50% chance of having an enjoyable afterlife? That seems very cruel to me. Atheism is a journey without a destination, a body without a soul, life without meaning, a faith without hope, and a universe without God. Atheism is existentially unfulfilling. How extremely sad it is for me & your dad to know this is what you are now teaching our grandchildren, and this is what they have to look forward to in life, not to mention what awaits them after they die if they choose to follow their parents path. One other thing, your argument for evolution seems to be based on a person’s education and if a person has no expertise in that field, then you won’t listen to any of their arguments. By the world’s educational standard, (my husband) is not an expert in this field since he only has a masters in History. What makes him right and everyone else wrong? (i.e. family & former church friends who have an even higher education than (my husband)) Fortunately, it doesn’t take a degree or a high intelligence (which I don’t have either one) to understand the Bible, it takes the Holy Spirit. Love, Mom 3
florduh Posted January 24, 2013 Posted January 24, 2013 Dear Mom, It doesn't take a genius to grasp the evidence of evolution; it only takes an open mind. It takes the ability to look at facts and make a conclusion based on the evidence. As far as the "what if you're wrong" argument (known as Pascal's Wager) I ask the same question - what if we are wrong about Allah? Fundamental Christianity has taken a position based on a very flawed book of questionable origin, and then goes about trying to make reality fit the foregone conclusion. That is the reason critical thinking and education are the enemies of Bronze Age religions. Observable reality runs contrary to most religious beliefs.
Rek99 Posted January 24, 2013 Posted January 24, 2013 Welcome to the site! Deconversion is never easy, and it only gets worse if those around you react negatively. Unfortunately this is what the bible is based upon, fear, threats, and hell. No amount of proof for evolution that you send her is going to change her mind. She clearly believes in the bible because she's afraid of what could happen if she doesn't (which you and I know is false). The best advice I can give you is to express to her that nothing has changed about the love you feel towards your family and friends. You still love your wife, children, and you're going to live your life to its fullest. If it was me, I would tell her that unless she wants to communicate in a non-threatening manner, I will not be responding to her emails, phonecalls, or letters. You know her better than any of us, so you know what's best. Good luck!
Akheia Posted January 24, 2013 Posted January 24, 2013 It's so sad that you lost friends by being honest. And it's just as sad when people show such disrespect for your boundaries in the name of "love." To really cook her noodle, the god who exists might not look anything like the Judeo-Christian god. And even if such a god existed, the Bible might not actually be an accurate representation of what that god wants from humans. And, too, there are plenty of opportunity costs to following a false religion. I used to think that way too--that if it were false, hey, at least I lived a good life. But was it really that good? I spent most of my time feeling guilty about stuff that wasn't my fault, being a douche to my loved ones, and denying myself a host of pleasures in the name of pleasing a false god. It's not a 50% chance... it's probably a lot closer to 1% given how many gods there are and how many religions there've been through time, combined with the low accuracy rating of the things in the Bible we actually can test and verify. You'd have a better chance of making Diamond in Amway/Quixtar than of going to heaven. 1
R. S. Martin Posted January 24, 2013 Posted January 24, 2013 Welcome to the site! Deconversion is never easy, and it only gets worse if those around you react negatively. Unfortunately this is what the bible is based upon, fear, threats, and hell. No amount of proof for evolution that you send her is going to change her mind. She clearly believes in the bible because she's afraid of what could happen if she doesn't (which you and I know is false). The best advice I can give you is to express to her that nothing has changed about the love you feel towards your family and friends. You still love your wife, children, and you're going to live your life to its fullest. If it was me, I would tell her that unless she wants to communicate in a non-threatening manner, I will not be responding to her emails, phonecalls, or letters. You know her better than any of us, so you know what's best. Good luck! I don't know if it gets worse over the long haul but if she loves you she won't leave off the haranguing. She can learn, by your response/no response, what kind of behaviour you will tolerate. My family has learned over the course of more than six years that if they want contact with me they're going to go very lightly on the religion. For a few years I rejected almost all contact even to the point of returning gifts and throwing out letters unread. They seldom called and had no email. It's been a long weary haul and it won't be over any time soon. I have other friends who are more important in my life than my biological family. The peace of knowing in my own mind that I'm right has made the sacrifices worth it all. Close friends know that once in a while I'll get another letter that I need to steam about. That's what exC is for. For the most part, these days most of my family are civil and outwardly respectful because that is the only way they get to have any contact with me. That works in my case because my family values contact so highly. For those cases where the family shuns non-believers and apostates it won't work. As you will find on these forums, each case is different. 3
qadeshet Posted January 24, 2013 Posted January 24, 2013 Don't discuss Religion with your Mom. Just agree to disagree. You are not going to change her mind. If she's happy, it shouldn't bother you what she believes. 1
Fernweh Posted January 24, 2013 Posted January 24, 2013 So your Mom is assured of eternal salvation by accident of birth? What if she had been born into a country that was not predominately Christian? What about all the people who have existed throughout time who never heard of this great free gift she speaks of? What about them? Did they live a life of futility only the suffer eternal damnation just because they were unfortunate to have been born into a time that didn't know of the bible?
R. S. Martin Posted January 24, 2013 Posted January 24, 2013 Don't discuss Religion with your Mom. Just agree to disagree. You are not going to change her mind. If she's happy, it shouldn't bother you what she believes. Also, you don't have to justify your own position. I know, that is much easier said than done, after the accountability pressure we get in Christianity. Admittedly, I personally still haven't gotten comfortable with not justifying my position. I'm always thinking it might help the other person understand. It seldom does. 1
3DollarBill Posted January 24, 2013 Posted January 24, 2013 Dear Mom... what if YOU'RE wrong about the Great Cthulu at the Bottom of the Sea?
Chikirin Posted January 24, 2013 Posted January 24, 2013 The first month after I told them, they refused to speak to me. I am so sorry. That is horrible, it must be very hurtful for you. It was easier for me, since my dad renounced Christianity ten years before I did, so he helped pave the way for me to some extent. I only had to tell my Mom. She hasn't been attending church in ten years although she still is a believer. I feel really lucky compared to some other ex-christians. Some people practically get disowned when the y come out. I feel very fortunate in this regard.
mymistake Posted January 24, 2013 Posted January 24, 2013 PAP, welcome to ex-C! So sorry to hear about your parents. That sucks. I just face palmed so many times reading that messge you got.
mymistake Posted January 24, 2013 Posted January 24, 2013 [from the Mother] My question to you is this, Why would you teach your children to believe in something that only gives them a 50% chance of having an enjoyable afterlife? That seems very cruel to me. Atheism is a journey without a destination, a body without a soul, life without meaning, a faith without hope, and a universe without God. Atheism is existentially unfulfilling. Personally I'm going to teach my children to enjoy this life. If it's the only life they have then it is wonderful and precious and should not be wasted. Humans find and make their own meaning. So even an atheist can live a good, moral, ethical and even a fulfilling life. But you don't have to try to change your mother's mind. That might not be possible. I just shared this to encourage you.
HymenaeusAlexander Posted January 24, 2013 Posted January 24, 2013 My mother-in-law, ladies and gentlemen. PAP and I are heading over to Ikea right now to pick up one of these: 6
midniterider Posted January 24, 2013 Posted January 24, 2013 I love you Mom no matter what your religion is. Can you love me no matter what my religion is? 2
SquareOne Posted January 24, 2013 Posted January 24, 2013 Hi, welcome to the site. I've been here a while and still not put up my extimony. Here... you could try using this as a reply. (This is a light-hearted response, I'm not trying to downplay the seriousness of the pain of deconversion, which I'm still going through myself. Still, sometimes, I think we just need to be able to laugh). Dear Mom I know how you feel about God. Sometimes I lie awake wondering if I made the wrong decision by not believing in Thor. I mean, come on - phwoar. I mean, what if Loki comes to torment me because I haven't trusted in Thor enough? Still. Then I realise. Marvel Comics are just make believe, like the Bible. Except Marvel Comics have some good messages about heroism, and tend not to advocate not the slaughtering of innocent women and children. So maybe I should trust Thor after all. Sincerely PeopleArePeople 5
PeopleArePeople Posted January 25, 2013 Author Posted January 25, 2013 Thank you everyone for the encouragement! I don't want to continue talking about Christianity with her, but she just won't let up. I have brought up many of these objections with her in our previous discussions, but to no avail. This was in my e-mail this morning, and she sends back that science is my god now You also seem to think that if you disprove evolution to me, that I will somehow start to believe the bible again. Even if scientists came out tomorrow, and said they got it all wrong, I would not believe the bible. It is obvious to me that it was written by men. Disproving evolution does not prove Christianity. I realize that I won't be able to get through to her until she starts questioning things herself. Don't discuss Religion with your Mom. Just agree to disagree. You are not going to change her mind. If she's happy, it shouldn't bother you what she believes. It doesn't matter to me what she believes, but she is not happy. All of her immediate family is still alive, she is healthy, and has a good job. She told me the other day that all of her hope is in heaven, and she wishes she could be there now. That is not a healthy outlook on life. She has been obsessing over the thought of us burning in hell, and it is really starting to get to her. I know it is a long shot, but I am hoping that through our talks, she might soften her views.
mymistake Posted January 25, 2013 Posted January 25, 2013 Not sure if you want to use this or even if you already did: Religion = Geography The religion you are raised under is mostly determined by where you were born. If you are born in China then you are raised an atheist. If you are born in India then you are raised Hindu. If the Middle East then Islam. Unless it's Israel and then maybe Judaism. If Central Africa then pagan. If the Caribbean Islands then Voodoo. If South America then you are Catholic. If the South United States then you are Protestant. If your parents had grown up in a different part of the world then they would have a different religion. If it wouldn't help then don't worry about it.
Geezer Posted January 25, 2013 Posted January 25, 2013 Those who have been involved in Christianity, especially the fundamentalist version, understand just how real it is for those who have been indoctrinated into it. Your mother is simply expressing her concern and love for you in the only way she knows how. The eternal destiny of your soul is a very real concern for her because in her world the bible is the literal words of God and the dire warning to those who fall away, as far as your mother is concerned, could not be any more real. Your mother, although she would adamantly deny it, is a fully brainwashed member of a religious cult, but because “this” cult is recognized as a mainstream religion it isn’t identified for what it really is. I would like to give you some encouragement but the truth is that unless you can deprogram her, and that isn't likely, it will not be possible for you really communicate with her. What some other posters have noted is probably the only way to approach this problem. Try not to exacerbate the situation. As much as possible try to avoid communication that involves religion. Patronize her as much as possible to avoid conflicts.Experience has taught most of us that participate here, who have had similar experiences, you can’t win no matter what you do other that return to the Christian faith, and I assume that isn’t an option. Speaking as a grand dad, it is truly unfortunate for grown children when mom and dad refuse to recognize that you are an adult and their time has come to butt out and let you live your life. You note that you are in your 30’s so that time should have already come, but apparently it hasn’t and unfortunately that might indicate that it never will. You have to live your life and if that means patronizing mom and dad to keep peace, so be it.
Ellwood Posted January 25, 2013 Posted January 25, 2013 I am so sorry this is happening PAP. We can look at all the pain, separation, fighting, anger, stress, and worry that occurs when we have different religious beliefs as another indicator that the whole process is man created. What god would set up a system where the result of humans working it out so often places families against families, wife against husband, mother again their own children. (yes I know the bible says that will be so - screw it) Of course when I use the word "against" they would say it is love. But I would say if they really understood love they would question the "god" whose "love" is sending their very children or spouse to hell. And something should not "smell" right about that as a parent. And such a parent or spouse should say, "That is NUTS god, my husband or child does NOT deserve hell!" And they should start to check out that idea and its origins, and in fact its morality. (Matt Dillahunty uses this reasoning often with callers) I know my believing wife is trying to figure out different constructs for why our atheist daughter and me will not burn in hell. Currently she thinks god will remove her memory of us so she will not think of us in hell while she is in heaven. It really gets very nutty. Hopefully someday she will raise her fist in anger at her "god" and say "how dare you send my loved ones to hell!!" and start to figure this all out. But the evil of all this is when a mother actually thinks her children will go to hell and actually tells her daughter she is going to hell. My wife has told my daughter that just like your mom in so many emails. It is evil, cruel, inhumane, unloving, and so wrong! And no, I don't buy the line that god wishes to send no one to hell and gives us all a free choice. That is wrong on so many levels. Right about now in this type of discussion I bring up the mentally impaired. How does that work for them? Do they get a free stay out of hell ticket? How impaired must they be for that? How will parents know if their child is impaired enough and they can stop worrying about their salvation? In addition to an age of accountability is there an IQ level of accountability? It just gets more and more nutty. Only religion can think up this stuff.In other words, I see the kind of crazy situation that you have with your mom as proof to me that it is a human-made conflict with its origins 2000 years ago. A god who sets up such pain and suffering is not moral, not wise, not loving and that proves to me there is no god, just a man made idea. I was challenged by another post I read recently where a young women was stressing during her pre-deconversion days about bringing children into the world who may possibly end up in hell some day. I thought that was a good point and wonder why more christians don't consider that more often. If you truly believe in hell why risk having children whom you may have to see burn in hell forever? These are crazy scenarios that should raise some flags with anyone who puts it all to a "reason" test. For now I have decided to live my life as best I can as a grandfather, husband, father and friend. My hope is that someday my wife will not be able to continue to think it reasonable that a god would send someone like me to eternal damnation. And start the wonderful journey we are all on here at this site.
RipVanWinkle Posted January 25, 2013 Posted January 25, 2013 It is truly tough having to listen to her frantic responses. She piles one illogical conclusion on another and thinks it is you who is heading down the wrong path. You know you will never convince her unless she wants to be. I agree with the others: Don't discuss religion with her. That is a pact that my wife and I worked out. And so far, so good. Good luck. bill
pandora Posted January 26, 2013 Posted January 26, 2013 Wow... reading that e-mail seriously made me facepalm several times as well! The whole bit about circumcision and the Caduceus thing being evil... just wow. I feel for you. I am lucky in that none of my family really cares what I do or don't believe, and if they do, they keep it to themselves. My ex-MIL really had a hard time with my ex-husband and my's deconversion, though... and that letter brought back many memories. My ex-MIL eventually grew more moderate in her faith just to accommodate the cognitive dissonance of thinking her own son was going to hell. I have no advice other than what others have said... try to keep the subject off-limits as often as possible and make boundaries. It sucks to know her heart is broken, and all for a delusion... but the best thing you can do is live your life in a way that proves to her you are still a decent person.
DrNo Posted January 26, 2013 Posted January 26, 2013 Dear God. That site. Wow. Get that desk put together, Stat! Also, the Pascal's wager argument suggests you have a 50/50 chance to heaven. This is not true. If you considered just the 3 major monotheistic religions, you would have a 25% chance. When you consider the myriad of religions and denominations that claim theirs to be distinct, you have a much smaller percentage. On a side note I would just like to make public my insane jealousy that PAP and Hymenaeous Alexander deconverted together. I am currently "unequally yoked" and while I love my wife this has been without a doubt the biggest challenge to our marital stability.
BendyLine Posted January 26, 2013 Posted January 26, 2013 Wow. That e-mail was something. I learned some new things today. That sperm thing was... well, I'm guessing sperm looked "human" before sin came into the world then? Anyway, welcome on board! Are you HA's wife? Good to have you both! And if you're not, good to have you anyway. XD
RedStar Posted January 26, 2013 Posted January 26, 2013 Wow... She believes her own son will burn in hell and that being an atheist means you have no hope, then she says that teaching your kids there's no god is cruel, all the while failing to see that it's HER beliefs that are cruel! I don't know how xtians can sleep at night or get through life with any kind of happiness thinking that their child will be tortured forever. It has to cause serious psychological damage! Some of the things she said were just downright nutty. I hope she calms down and that things improve for you, you're in a pretty horrible situation! 1
PeopleArePeople Posted January 26, 2013 Author Posted January 26, 2013 Not sure if you want to use this or even if you already did: Religion = Geography I have tried this argument, but thank you for the advice. Speaking as a grand dad, it is truly unfortunate for grown children when mom and dad refuse to recognize that you are an adult and their time has come to butt out and let you live your life. You note that you are in your 30’s so that time should have already come, but apparently it hasn’t and unfortunately that might indicate that it never will. I don't know if I am off base here, but I think a lot of her problems with us deconverting is her own embarrassment. She thinks she has failed as a parent, even though I have not lived with them for almost 15 years. She used to be proud of herself that both of her children were strong Christians. She assumed when young people left the church, it was because their parents did something wrong. The reason I say this is because she was 99% sure her nephew was an atheist (his sister told her), but she has never "witnessed" to him. She has never mentioned to him that he will burn in hell. I have asked her about this, but she couldn't really give me any reason. She basically just pretended she never heard the information. I am so sorry this is happening PAP. We can look at all the pain, separation, fighting, anger, stress, and worry that occurs when we have different religious beliefs as another indicator that the whole process is man created. What god would set up a system where the result of humans working it out so often places families against families, wife against husband, mother again their own children. (yes I know the bible says that will be so - screw it) Of course when I use the word "against" they would say it is love. But I would say if they really understood love they would question the "god" whose "love" is sending their very children or spouse to hell. And something should not "smell" right about that as a parent. And such a parent or spouse should say, "That is NUTS god, my husband or child does NOT deserve hell!" And they should start to check out that idea and its origins, and in fact its morality. (Matt Dillahunty uses this reasoning often with callers) I know my believing wife is trying to figure out different constructs for why our atheist daughter and me will not burn in hell. Currently she thinks god will remove her memory of us so she will not think of us in hell while she is in heaven. It really gets very nutty. Hopefully someday she will raise her fist in anger at her "god" and say "how dare you send my loved ones to hell!!" and start to figure this all out. But the evil of all this is when a mother actually thinks her children will go to hell and actually tells her daughter she is going to hell. My wife has told my daughter that just like your mom in so many emails. It is evil, cruel, inhumane, unloving, and so wrong! And no, I don't buy the line that god wishes to send no one to hell and gives us all a free choice. That is wrong on so many levels. Right about now in this type of discussion I bring up the mentally impaired. How does that work for them? Do they get a free stay out of hell ticket? How impaired must they be for that? How will parents know if their child is impaired enough and they can stop worrying about their salvation? In addition to an age of accountability is there an IQ level of accountability? It just gets more and more nutty. Only religion can think up this stuff. In other words, I see the kind of crazy situation that you have with your mom as proof to me that it is a human-made conflict with its origins 2000 years ago. A god who sets up such pain and suffering is not moral, not wise, not loving and that proves to me there is no god, just a man made idea. I was challenged by another post I read recently where a young women was stressing during her pre-deconversion days about bringing children into the world who may possibly end up in hell some day. I thought that was a good point and wonder why more christians don't consider that more often. If you truly believe in hell why risk having children whom you may have to see burn in hell forever? These are crazy scenarios that should raise some flags with anyone who puts it all to a "reason" test. For now I have decided to live my life as best I can as a grandfather, husband, father and friend. My hope is that someday my wife will not be able to continue to think it reasonable that a god would send someone like me to eternal damnation. And start the wonderful journey we are all on here at this site. Thank you for the kind words, and I hope that things get better for your family. I gently tried to remind my mom a few weeks ago that she would not be sad in heaven. She told me that doesn't help her now. It's sad that your wife wants god to erase her memory of you and your daughter, but that shows how much she cares for you both. She knows that she could not enjoy herself in heaven knowing that you were suffering for eternity. What does this say about her god though? Does he enjoy watching people suffer forever? I used to worry about the mentally impaired as a kid. I told myself that they went to heaven automatically, because anything else would be cruel. I said the same for children who died. I was so surprised when I found out "the age of accountability" was nowhere in the bible. It is truly tough having to listen to her frantic responses. She piles one illogical conclusion on another and thinks it is you who is heading down the wrong path. You know you will never convince her unless she wants to be. I agree with the others: Don't discuss religion with her. That is a pact that my wife and I worked out. And so far, so good. Good luck. bill It is sad to listen to. I am glad it's working out with you and your wife.
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