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Goodbye Jesus

Freakin' Stupid Christian Chick And Fate


Adrianime

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So ex-christians, let me know what you think of this.

 

During my final days of college I was trying to venture out and talk to more girls.  This one particular girl i was getting to know turned me off so much that I couldn't talk to her again.  Note that I am, and always have been, an atheist, and she knew this.

 

Here is the gist of the conversation, reconstructed from memory.

 

Her: (some other stuff that is not relevant)...it was just fate.

Me:  Well I don't believe it's just fate, people can always make changes in their lives.  They can always try to be/do whatever they want.

Her:  I think it all comes down to destiny in the end.

Me: I don't think there is a predetermined plan for everybody, do you?

Her: Yes.

Me:  What about when bad things happen?

Her:  Everything happens according to God's will.

Me:  You really believe that?

Her:  Yes.

Me:  So a 12 year old girl who has never done anything overly wrong in her life gets raped by a soldier and then her leg gets blown off.  Is that her fate?

Her: Yes.

Me:  Really?  What about a family that gets murdered by a serial killer.

Her:  It's their destiny.

Me:  So you really think that when horrible things happen to good people, it is just what was meant to be for them?

Her:  Yes.

 

I don't even remember if I made more examples or if I even said more.  I was so appalled that I couldn't even consider her worth talking to any more.  It almost made me sick.  That's when I realized I could never date a hardcore christian.  Not if they gave up their minds to this extent.

 

Let me know what you guys' impressions are.

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I have had many conversations just like you described. It is so frustrating, you just can't reason with people who do not have the ability to be reasonable or think logically.

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It's just a natural consequence of making a commitment to believe something and basing your morality on the supposed commands of a detached figurehead who doesn't feel pain. There's no empathy involved. They don't care about suffering when their god is on topic unless the empathy you would expect them to show lines up with their narrative. Realizing this and that I was no longer like that played a big role in snapping me out of the daze.

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It's frustrating. Some people seem to lack the ability to think, or even observe reality. I don't engage them any longer as there's no point to it.

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Wonder what she have thought if you tipped a hot coffee into her lap? It was gods will that the coffee get in her lap? Hehehehehehe

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Even some of the Greek philosophers who were fatalistic still strove to be virtuous, and some of them (like Marcus Aurelius and Seneca) led active (not passive) lives. As far as I can tell, their idea of fate seems to be things over which they had no control, not that *nothing* was within their control.

 

How could a loving, caring god of the NT plan for someone (apparently controlling them) to break his/her/its own rules? This girl had some serious mental compartmentalization going on.

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Thank you for your replies everybody.  Yeah, since then I learned the other tidbit that christians thought you were going to hell if you didn't accept jesus as your lord ans savior.  (This was from a different Christian girl I was trying to get close to). 

 

Giving up rationality, and like somebody above hinted at, sympathy...gosh it's just such a mindless way out.  It's like, "Great, now that I'm christiian I no longer have to think.  Phew!" 

 

haha, of course there are exceptions.  But it's really just a darned shame!

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So she thinks god does these evil things? Or, with the power to prevent them he allows them to happen? Either way, god is a monster. bill

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Ugh. People like that make me want to bang someone's head against a wall. Mine or theirs, I don't care.

 

I'm not sure if she actually believes that, or if she's trying to convince herself she does so Jeezuz won't be ticked. Hope you find someone who uses her brain.

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To quote Stephen Hawking: 

“I have noticed that even those who assert that everything is predestined and that we can change nothing about it still look both ways before they cross the street.”

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I think some people cannot face the nastiness of this world. They manufacture whatever they can to make sense of it in a way that doesn't compromise their sanity. They tell themselves whatever they have to so that they can survive.

 

Even as a christian I could never see how everything was working together for good when christian after christian dropped dead of cancer before my eyes. None of this in a better place bullshit as I watched their greiving familes. Even then I just thought this is bullshit. If god loves us and cares about us on a personal basis, this shit wouldnt be happening.

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I think some people cannot face the nastiness of this world. They manufacture whatever they can to make sense of it in a way that doesn't compromise their sanity. They tell themselves whatever they have to so that they can survive.

 

Even as a christian I could never see how everything was working together for good when christian after christian dropped dead of cancer before my eyes. None of this in a better place bullshit as I watched their greiving familes. Even then I just thought this is bullshit. If god loves us and cares about us on a personal basis, this shit wouldnt be happening.

True that, sister.

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The thing is......... if everything is determined by god, why does god tell us in the bible that we can pray for whatever we want and it shall be 'done unto us'??? There is quite a few scriptures pertaining to this; being able to change things by prayer????

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Guess we just weren't doing it right.

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If everything that happens to us is predestined by God, even the bad stuff, I get confused when Christians are always attributing bad stuff that happens to the work of The Devil. Doesn't that mean that, if Satan leads a Catholic Priest to molest an altar boy, God already predestined the priest to molest the altar boy, which means God predstined The Devil to lead the priest to molest the altar boy?

 

Does't this all equate to the conclusion that every horrible thing The Devil does is an act predetermined by God? It seems so important for Christians to be able to blame all bad things on The Devil, but how can The acts of The Devil not be The Acts of God if all things are predestined by God?

 

It all makes my head spin and fills me with the desire to turn off my computer and eat Moose Tracks Ice Cream.

 

Lemur

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Why are you interested in xtian chicks?

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The thing is......... if everything is determined by god, why does god tell us in the bible that we can pray for whatever we want and it shall be 'done unto us'??? There is quite a few scriptures pertaining to this; being able to change things by prayer????

I can safely say in my 20 odd years as a xtian I never saw one prayer answered.

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I think some people cannot face the nastiness of this world. They manufacture whatever they can to make sense of it in a way that doesn't compromise their sanity. They tell themselves whatever they have to so that they can survive.

 

I think you nailed it. Thanks for saying this. I think there are some things in life that really are nasty and simply can't be justified no matter what worldview is used.

 

The trouble with this, though, is that some say we (unbelievers) live in a "bleak world." I don't think that's really true... being free of an oppressive religion isn't bleak at all, to me, but facing the true nastiness in the world is still a tough issue.

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I think some people cannot face the nastiness of this world. They manufacture whatever they can to make sense of it in a way that doesn't compromise their sanity. They tell themselves whatever they have to so that they can survive.

I think you nailed it. Thanks for saying this. I think there are some things in life that really are nasty and simply can't be justified no matter what worldview is used.

 

The trouble with this, though, is that some say we (unbelievers) live in a "bleak world."

 

yes I understand this stance.  Religion is a huge security blanket.  It's one of the "great" things about it.  Looking at the world through rose colored glasses or whatever. 

 

But as far as a non-believers living in a bleak world.  For almost any topic, I would rather accept reality, than be lied to.  If your spouse was cheating on you, would you rather know?  Or would you rather be blissfully ignorant?

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But as far as a non-believers living in a bleak world. For almost any topic, I would rather accept reality, than be lied to.

I definitely hear you on that.

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I tend to advocate that we fall under determinism, which is not the same as fate; an example of determinism is if you were born in an east L.A. ghetto you are more likely to fall into criminalism and poverty (and have children in your teen years) than if you lived in the more affluent areas of L.A.  This is not to say that you can't break the mold of your society but likely won't.

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Bottom line: if god is all powerful and doesn't stop evil, then he alone is responsible for it.

 

Those same people say god is NOT responsible for the evil, because people chose to do it. If I knew in advance that something horrible was going to happen, and I was able to stop it without so much as breaking a sweat, and I chose to do nothing, that's not fate -- that's criminal negligence. That's a terrible kind of evil.

 

It's too bad the bible writers and this manufactured god of their's is so screwed up.

 

The good news is that we were once christians too, and we managed to see through the lies, the mind control and the monstrosity of it all. Hopefully, many other christians will become ex-christians, too.

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I have had many conversations just like you described. It is so frustrating, you just can't reason with people who do not have the ability to be reasonable or think logically.

 

That's why I don't get the Christians that are for banning guns.

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Bottom line: if god is all powerful and doesn't stop evil, then he alone is responsible for it.

 

Those same people say god is NOT responsible for the evil, because people chose to do it. If I knew in advance that something horrible was going to happen, and I was able to stop it without so much as breaking a sweat, and I chose to do nothing, that's not fate -- that's criminal negligence. That's a terrible kind of evil.

 

It's too bad the bible writers and this manufactured god of their's is so screwed up.

 

The good news is that we were once christians too, and we managed to see through the lies, the mind control and the monstrosity of it all. Hopefully, many other christians will become ex-christians, too.

 

 

I have had many conversations just like you described. It is so frustrating, you just can't reason with people who do not have the ability to be reasonable or think logically.

 

That's why I don't get the Christians that are for banning guns.

I know a lot of fundies and most of them are not for banning, many seem

to have their own arsenals.  I think mainline Christians tend to be more

opposed to guns on average, but not the evangelicals.

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