Old Friend Wants To Hang Out.

[TristanJay]

I have this long-time old friend from early middle school, I would guess around 20 years now.  Before I became a Christian, I secretly harbored a hatred and contempt for God, because of a general sense that something was wrong with me, with the way I interacted with the rest of my peers because of some disconnect I couldn't understand.  My friend persuaded my to become a Christian in High School, and I spent many years trying to get my head around the concepts that tried to explain how God wasn't a sociopath, incompetent, or a bully.

 

I was married for a brief period of time, and this gave me a measure of hope that I was able to live a life that was like many other humans, and set aside doubt that there were things wrong with me.  But it didn't last, and the aggravating factor was all the disorders I eventually discovered I had piled on inside my brain.  My wife was very sympathetic and supportive, and pulled the plug on our marriage.

 

Naturally the full force of this trauma, on top of the knowledge of what was going on with my brain that was giving me trouble brought back that old sentiment that honestly never left me.  I always hated God, and that burst the dam of Christianity.

 

My friend had been out of touch for a long while, and I had got the impression that he had lost interest in interacting with me, so whatever.  We both work as substitue teachers for the same school district, and by random coicidence I had noticed that we had ended up teaching for the same class a day apart, so I sent him a joking message about it.  He asked me how things were with "Us" and I told him about the divorce and all that.  I may have let slip my very grave displeasure with God...my mistake.

 

All of a sudden he wants to hang out again, nothing serious, just safely geeking out.  It seems a bit transparent, though, doesn't it?  I thought it did.  I admit, I took a bit of grim, dark pleasure at stalling his attempts to meet up, 'til I reached the point of straining against basic politeness.

 

I sense my instincts may have done me well.  The third get together, and he started to probe about the marriage and my standing with God.  I'm pleased to say I've been prepped for this kind of moment for a while now; and I told him, "My feelings about God are now between God and myself.  No other humans are invited or allowed."  I pulled that off in a very reasonable, polite tone (I think, I'm pretty sure).  I've established this canned answer because I have to be wary of people trying to be persuasive with me.  And in with the issue of God and religion, I'm finding that this is actually true.  I can feel the desire for my freedom to make up my own mind, in my own time; but human's have failed to persuade me that God is not a sociopath or a bully or an incompetent fool, and God has not managed to persuade me otherwise, either.

 

As I walked out the door, my friend told me that if I needed to vent, or rage, or complain about God, he was receptive to hearing me out.  But I'm not sure I trust him to restrain himself from persuading me otherwise.  I've already been through it with another friend much like him, trying to persuade me to "give God another chance to prove himself" so I'm very wary.  And he's seems to have been reflective about the fact that by not keeping up ties, he's on shaky ground with trust (he posted this sentiment on an online forum).  What's frustrating is that I do miss him a lot, but I don't want to be a damned "project."  And I'm short on friends, the social circle my ex-wife and I were with has dwindled and dispersed, I hardly ever see them.  I'm trying to get myself out into new social situations to cultivate new friendships, but it's slow going (I'm ridiculously shy, and I just can't help it).

 

So, I'm not exactly at a crises point, yet.  My old friend hasn't contacted me to get together for a subsequent visit, after last time.  I have to wonder if he will.  But if he does, I'm looking for "battle tactics" so to speak.  Do I give up on him, for my own good?  I can't help but feel (although I can't say it's a certainty) that the sentiment that makes me miss him and paradoxically makes me resent his seeming detachment toward our friendship in the past, is stronger for my part, as if my ability to detach from it is something that is a greater challenge for me than it is for him.  Part of that may stem from the awful feeling of rejection I feel coming out of my marriage.

[♦ ficino ♦]

Just from reading this I'd guess that your friend (former friend now ???) has more than one motive for wanting to hang out.  One might be a probably unacknowledged pleasure in telling himself (prob. unacknowledged) that he's superior.  I'm not getting great vibes about a continued friendship from having read your post.

[TristanJay]

I can't leave this little bit, because in the midst of writing a freakin' novel, mistakes are inevitable.

 

I meant to say:

My wife was not remotely sympathetic and supportive, and pulled the plug on our marriage.

 

[Margee]

Tristan, welcome to Ex-c. Thanks so much for sharing your story. So very sorry to hear about the heartbreaks you have gone through. Life can be very hard on us at times.

 

 I loved your 2 sentences about ending all 'battles' about talking about god...you said '' My feelings about God are now between God and myself. No other humans are invited or allowed."  I like that. End of discussion. You do not need any 'battle tactics' if you continue to repeat this to your friend or anyone else for that matter.

 

One thing that age has taught me is to have the ability to see very clearly and quickly what people's motivations are. I am very carful now with people. I don't allow just anyone into my life anymore.

 

A true friend is someone who truly likes you and fully accepts you as you are. I keep my eyes open all the time to see if someone's motivation is to try to change me or force me into something I don't want. A true friend is there for you to spill your guts, validate that you feel a certain way, and then ask, ''Is there anything I can do to help?. A true friend will make suggestions but not control and tell you that it's how you must run your life. That's who I consider a friend to be. Someone who helps you make good decisions and helps to guide you to a healthy path..

 

If he's a true friend with the right motivations of 'caring for you' without  trying to change you, he'll be back. If  he dosen't call back, you will have not lost a true friend because a true friend would not do this.

 

You are quite shy you say? Stay with us for awhile and talk through the good ole' internet. It really helps a lot. People on this site will be right here to help you deal with things that we all have a hard time dealing with. I'm glad you're here with us! Stay awhile!! Have your coffee's with us until you make some really good friends in the real world. It will come. Just be careful that you don't attract people who want to 'preach' to you about how you 'should' work your life.

 

You sound smart enough to me to figure this out yourself!!

 

Hug for you today!

[raoul]

TristanJay,

Whether you realize it or not, you now have a bunch of new friends like Margee, Ficino, and a host of others over here. Friends who have NO hidden motives but only want to see you realize all of your potential and success. That person, from what you described, is probably looking at you as some kind of 'lost sheep' that he wants to bring back into the fold. You don't need that any longer, okay?

[Margee]

TristanJay,

Whether you realize it or not, you now have a bunch of new friends like Margee, Ficino, and a host of others over here. Friends who have NO hidden motives but only want to see you realize all of your potential and success. That person, from what you described, is probably looking at you as some kind of 'lost sheep' that he wants to bring back into the fold. You don't need that any longer, okay?

raoul is a good friend to have on this site!!

[alpha centauri]

^{Sorry that you're dealing with all that fallout. I am going through some pretty uncertain times right now, and I too have had to be careful with my friends and who I confide in. Some people will only attack me or try to lead me back to the path of "righteousness," and those whom I can truly trust are few and far between.}

^{Fortunately, I do have one friend whom I can tell anything, and he is encouraging and supportive. I was able to tell him about family problems, about my disbelief and how I can't believe a loving god would ever subject anyone to hell. This friend is a christian, be he was symapethic and saw my point. Interestingly, he has other friends who are Buddhist and atheist, people who are both straight and gay, and he is very non-judgmental. It seems to me he is probably more of a cultural christian than a true believer.}

^{Unfortunately, friends like that can be very few and far between.}

^{However, there are many people on this message board who can offer support and encouragement, and the only motivation we have is that it is simply the right thing to do.}

^{Welcome to this place of refuge. I hope you are able to get some measure of support, encouragement and acceptance here which is sadly lacking in most christian circles.}

[TristanJay]

Thanks to everyone for the welcome and support.  I'm pretty lucky in that my parents do their own thing, spirituality-wise, so I'm pretty open with them.  And I did have another friend who did speak on behalf of God and Christianity, but I had so many counterarguments and additional problem points, I don't know how he talked himself into continuing to try and persuade me to give God another chance at winning my trust.

 

The friend in my OP is different, and since there have been long gaps of being out of touch with him, he's something of an unknown quantity.  I've seen shades of a more open and somewhat accepting brand of Christianity out of him, but to a certain degree he does seem to be walking something of a tight rope wire on a lot of hot button controversies within the faith.  His seeming adeptness at this is part of what makes me wary.

 

Of old I've had a lot of respect for him, and deferred to his judgement.  But I don't want to be in a position where he will assert himself in this way and I involuntarily back down because it's the old pattern.  He needs standing up to, needs to face face a difference of opinion that confounds him...only, I've never seen it happen.  And because of my disabilities, under pressure I will loose my train of thought, loose whatever rebuttal I would otherwise have been ready with, and I'll end up looking petulant and be rendered incoherent.   I don't want these things for him out of malice, but, well, I'm not sure what to say beyond this point.

 

I've lost so many friends who have moved away, or don't dance on the same nights that I do, or won't contacted me even though I've contacted them.  And I'm not necessarily wanting to establish a declarative with this particular friend, the friend of the OP.  Maybe I just want him in his place, the way I've so often been relegated to my proper place, if you follow that train of thought.

 

I think I'm just rambling at this point.  This is why I don't want to try and have an argument, because I will loose my way.

[midniterider]

I have this long-time old friend from early middle school, I would guess around 20 years now.  Before I became a Christian, I secretly harbored a hatred and contempt for God, because of a general sense that something was wrong with me, with the way I interacted with the rest of my peers because of some disconnect I couldn't understand.  My friend persuaded my to become a Christian in High School, and I spent many years trying to get my head around the concepts that tried to explain how God wasn't a sociopath, incompetent, or a bully.

 

I was married for a brief period of time, and this gave me a measure of hope that I was able to live a life that was like many other humans, and set aside doubt that there were things wrong with me.  But it didn't last, and the aggravating factor was all the disorders I eventually discovered I had piled on inside my brain.  My wife was very sympathetic and supportive, and pulled the plug on our marriage.

 

Naturally the full force of this trauma, on top of the knowledge of what was going on with my brain that was giving me trouble brought back that old sentiment that honestly never left me.  I always hated God, and that burst the dam of Christianity.

 

My friend had been out of touch for a long while, and I had got the impression that he had lost interest in interacting with me, so whatever.  We both work as substitue teachers for the same school district, and by random coicidence I had noticed that we had ended up teaching for the same class a day apart, so I sent him a joking message about it.  He asked me how things were with "Us" and I told him about the divorce and all that.  I may have let slip my very grave displeasure with God...my mistake.

 

All of a sudden he wants to hang out again, nothing serious, just safely geeking out.  It seems a bit transparent, though, doesn't it?  I thought it did.  I admit, I took a bit of grim, dark pleasure at stalling his attempts to meet up, 'til I reached the point of straining against basic politeness.

 

I sense my instincts may have done me well.  The third get together, and he started to probe about the marriage and my standing with God.  I'm pleased to say I've been prepped for this kind of moment for a while now; and I told him, "My feelings about God are now between God and myself.  No other humans are invited or allowed."  I pulled that off in a very reasonable, polite tone (I think, I'm pretty sure).  I've established this canned answer because I have to be wary of people trying to be persuasive with me.  And in with the issue of God and religion, I'm finding that this is actually true.  I can feel the desire for my freedom to make up my own mind, in my own time; but human's have failed to persuade me that God is not a sociopath or a bully or an incompetent fool, and God has not managed to persuade me otherwise, either.

 

As I walked out the door, my friend told me that if I needed to vent, or rage, or complain about God, he was receptive to hearing me out.  But I'm not sure I trust him to restrain himself from persuading me otherwise.  I've already been through it with another friend much like him, trying to persuade me to "give God another chance to prove himself" so I'm very wary.  And he's seems to have been reflective about the fact that by not keeping up ties, he's on shaky ground with trust (he posted this sentiment on an online forum).  What's frustrating is that I do miss him a lot, but I don't want to be a damned "project."  And I'm short on friends, the social circle my ex-wife and I were with has dwindled and dispersed, I hardly ever see them.  I'm trying to get myself out into new social situations to cultivate new friendships, but it's slow going (I'm ridiculously shy, and I just can't help it).

 

So, I'm not exactly at a crises point, yet.  My old friend hasn't contacted me to get together for a subsequent visit, after last time.  I have to wonder if he will.  But if he does, I'm looking for "battle tactics" so to speak.  Do I give up on him, for my own good?  I can't help but feel (although I can't say it's a certainty) that the sentiment that makes me miss him and paradoxically makes me resent his seeming detachment toward our friendship in the past, is stronger for my part, as if my ability to detach from it is something that is a greater challenge for me than it is for him.  Part of that may stem from the awful feeling of rejection I feel coming out of my marriage.

 

Good response to him about him prying into your status with God. Though, I think to really lock it down tight you might make it God's idea like "God has forbidden me from discussing my beliefs with anyone....it's not my idea, it's Gods so I have to respect it...."

 

A Christian wouldn't want to go against God's wishes now, would he? haha

[TristanJay]

Okay, so today I have an update...after a couple weeks, my friend has contacted me, wanting to get together sometime next week.  And I still haven't made up my mind.  Part of me wonders if it will be good for me to move on from this friend.  It's hard because we've known each other for so very long.  What makes it easier is my perception that he seemed to find it easy enough to move on from me or didn't seem interested in hanging out...until the point where he thought I wasn't where he wanted me to be, spiritually.

 

Part of me is morbidly curious to see how legit he is; will he try again to pry on religious matters and my divorce, or will he just shut up about it and hang out for the sake of good times?  Part of me dreads it, because he has a strong, charismatic personality, and I don't want to bother putting myself in a situation where I have to defend or justify or explain myself at length.

 

I actually laughed when I thought to myself, I would rather go out dancing and interact with people who I don't know beyond the surface level.  And I would rather call up my other friend whose ear I've already talked off; at least I know I can tear him apart for being negligent.

 

I just don't know.

[ContraBardus]

Okay, so today I have an update...after a couple weeks, my friend has contacted me, wanting to get together sometime next week.  And I still haven't made up my mind.  Part of me wonders if it will be good for me to move on from this friend.  It's hard because we've known each other for so very long.  What makes it easier is my perception that he seemed to find it easy enough to move on from me or didn't seem interested in hanging out...until the point where he thought I wasn't where he wanted me to be, spiritually.

 

Part of me is morbidly curious to see how legit he is; will he try again to pry on religious matters and my divorce, or will he just shut up about it and hang out for the sake of good times?  Part of me dreads it, because he has a strong, charismatic personality, and I don't want to bother putting myself in a situation where I have to defend or justify or explain myself at length.

 

I actually laughed when I thought to myself, I would rather go out dancing and interact with people who I don't know beyond the surface level.  And I would rather call up my other friend whose ear I've already talked off; at least I know I can tear him apart for being negligent.

 

I just don't know.

[3DollarBill]

How about just being direct?  Call him back, say "Sure, let's hang.  But I'm letting you know right now I don't want to talk about religion or my divorce AT ALL."  Make sure you're clear beforehand, and if he brings it up, leave.  And then you'll know if he has any actual respect for you and wants to be friends or if he just wants to reconvert you

[R. S. Martin]

I can't leave this little bit, because in the midst of writing a freakin' novel, mistakes are inevitable.

 

I meant to say:

My wife was not remotely sympathetic and supportive, and pulled the plug on our marriage.

 

Thanks for clearing that up. I was baffled by the conflicting statements that she was so sympathetic and supportive, and later on that you suffer from her rejection. This helps a LOT!

[R. S. Martin]

TristanJay, your last Post 10, I'm in agreement with the others. Either it's a trap or you can test it like 3dollarbill suggests just to be sure.

 

I know what it's like for the mind to go blank when the other person comes up with all the arguments and accusations. I'm much better with written communication such as email where I can see what the argument is about and address each item by turn without losing my head. Like me, you seem to have rebuttals in your head but when the brain freezes they are temporarily inaccessible.

 

But one still needs face to face friendships and it seems that's where your problem comes in. He's offering friendship--something you really need at this time. Except it seems not to be true friendship. Like you say, he found it easy to discard you until he found out that you're no longer so tight with God. Now suddenly this human guy wants to get tight with you again, and he's following a pattern of first being just chatty and friendly, then intentionally coming in closer. I don't trust this thing and you might want to ask yourself if you want to put yourself in a situation to get hurt again. That you prefer superficial dancing relationships to his friendship speaks volumes, in my opinion. He's dangerous to you.

 

If you want to see him "put in his place," all you have to do is be too busy and turn down his friendship. You can be "busy" taking care of yourself even if you have nothing more important to do than watch a rerun of something comfortable. It's none of his business what you're doing. You don't owe him an explanation.

 

That's my two cents. You might have better ideas when the time comes.