Unmarried Ex-Christians. Will You Marry In A Church?

[VacuumFlux]

I can't imagine being married in a church, but I won't rule it out entirely..  I would definitely not allow religious elements in the ceremony.  No god-talk, no Adam and Even, no "Sacred Union," or "Two people becoming one flesh" kind of talk.

 

Actually, I can't imagine getting married again.

 

If women aren't actually a form of property any more, then what the hell is marriage for?  Men and woman are of equal status (philosophically anyway) and capable of negotiating the terms of their relationship with one another at different junctures in time.  Women are capable of working, earning a living, purchasing property and contributing to their own retirement. 

 

I mean, I understand the psycological need for a sense of permanence, but I'm not sure why marriage exists any more other than religion still exists and some need to manage how property will be distributed upon death.

 

Can someone enligthen me?

 

Without a legal marriage, you are not "family" in the eyes of the law. You're just good friends. Even when gender is irrelevant, kinship still matters. There's inheritance and money issues, but also being able to visit each other in the hospital, make medical decision for each other when necessary, etc. You can try to simulate those legal rights with a whole pile of other paperwork, but the hospital may ignore you and prefer your partner's family over you, and I think that some of it isn't just a pain to set up without marriage, but may be impossible. Marriage is saying "This person is my next of kin, trumping even my parents, siblings, and children". Next of kin is a huge deal.

 

I can see it being nice to declare someone your next of kin in social contexts too, not just in legal matters. I do like the idea of marriages joining two families together, if both families are sane. Marriage is how you tell your parents "I may spend Christmas with someone else's parents" and have them respect that decision. Marriage is how you say to everyone "if you're going to be defining me by my relationships, then this is the one that's the most important" (and for people who don't know you, trying to get a feel for who you are based on your relationships isn't unreasonable). Marriage is how you make it know that this other person's life is your business in the sense that if anything bad happens to them, you should be the first person informed.

 

So if you're planning on spending the rest of your life with someone as your primary partner, then marriage is a very convenient way of declaring that legally and socially, your lives are now intertwined.

[Adrianime]

I'm a firm believer in marriage.  it's a promise to one another that's beyond just a "commitment".  Sure, you can be committed to your GF, but that's not the same as promising you will never seek another woman, and that you will spend your life trying to make her's happy.  It's a big deal.  Even if I lived somewhere where marriage didn't give you a different legal status, I would still find the practice meaningful.

 

It has never been about religion for me (as I've never been religious).  And concerning "ownership" or "owning" your wife as property.  I look at it in a different way.  You are promising yourselves to each other.  So in a way you do take ownership if your spouse, just as she takes ownership of you.  You belong with her/to her.  You are giving yourself to that person and they are doing the same to you.

 

You can look at her and say, "I'm yours."  And she can do the same.

 

It's an equal trade, an equal promise, and an equal gesture.  It has nothing to do with religion, the law, or sex(as a verb).  In my opinion, it's beyond all that.

 

Yeah, I've always been slightly romantic.

 

As far as the "traditions" go.  The biggest thing that bugs me is that there are two rings.  I mean what the hell, an engagement ring and a wedding ring?  Seems stupid.  I will try to keep my party simple and delicious when i get married. 

[Sheerbliss]

I can't imagine being married in a church, but I won't rule it out entirely..  I would definitely not allow religious elements in the ceremony.  No god-talk, no Adam and Even, no "Sacred Union," or "Two people becoming one flesh" kind of talk.

 

Actually, I can't imagine getting married again.

 

If women aren't actually a form of property any more, then what the hell is marriage for?  Men and woman are of equal status (philosophically anyway) and capable of negotiating the terms of their relationship with one another at different junctures in time.  Women are capable of working, earning a living, purchasing property and contributing to their own retirement. 

 

I mean, I understand the psycological need for a sense of permanence, but I'm not sure why marriage exists any more other than religion still exists and some need to manage how property will be distributed upon death.

 

Can someone enligthen me?

Actually, it's mostly for the benefit of the woman. If a wife gives up her career to take care of a husband and family, she's (usually) entitled to alimony if the marriage breaks up. (And as someone else said, she's also on the hook for the bills.) Without a marriage contract, she's on her own. She can negotiate whatever she wants with a man, but a court can't enforce it.

 

A lot of people say that they don't need the state involved in their affairs, but when they break up over who owes what to whom, they file a lawsuit in a government-run court.

[JadedAtheist]

I would also add that it's doubtful I'll ever get married. More than half of all casual relationships turn to shit and around half of marriages end so why do that to yourself? It's like depositing your money into a bank account that accrues almost 0% interest per annum and each year you risk losing half of the money deposited into the account. Outside of marriage, who would take such a stupid risk?

[kolaida]

No, even as a Christian, I didn't want to get married in a church, the ceremony just seemed to stuff and blah.  Something like that would have to be done outside in nature, with trees and flowers that are already in the ground.  Now, I don't know if I want a christian pastor to reside over it or even that Corinthians verse quoted like at so many weddings.   I hate my last name, so I would GLADLY change it, LOL.  

[kolaida]

I'm a firm believer in marriage.  it's a promise to one another that's beyond just a "commitment".  Sure, you can be committed to your GF, but that's not the same as promising you will never seek another woman, and that you will spend your life trying to make her's happy.  It's a big deal.  Even if I lived somewhere where marriage didn't give you a different legal status, I would still find the practice meaningful.

 

It has never been about religion for me (as I've never been religious).  And concerning "ownership" or "owning" your wife as property.  I look at it in a different way.  You are promising yourselves to each other.  So in a way you do take ownership if your spouse, just as she takes ownership of you.  You belong with her/to her.  You are giving yourself to that person and they are doing the same to you.

 

You can look at her and say, "I'm yours."  And she can do the same.

 

It's an equal trade, an equal promise, and an equal gesture.  It has nothing to do with religion, the law, or sex(as a verb).  In my opinion, it's beyond all that.

 

Yeah, I've always been slightly romantic.

 

As far as the "traditions" go.  The biggest thing that bugs me is that there are two rings.  I mean what the hell, an engagement ring and a wedding ring?  Seems stupid.  I will try to keep my party simple and delicious when i get married. 

 

This ^^   I don't think marriage or commitment is JUST a religious thing. I believe some people really want to share their life and grow old with their best friend.  My best friend who is an atheist has an amazing marriage as do several of their friends, all of whom are atheists and very loud about it.  Hell, their relationships are a lot better than most religious people I've seen committed to each other because they are committed to each OTHER first and not to god/the book first probably. I do think marriage can be a good thing but separate from religion (although, SO many people will claim otherwise on both sides, it seems). 

 

Sorry for double post, couldn't figure out how to edit it.  I didn't even see the second page when I first posted. *pleasedon'tkillmelol*

[Ross]

My partner of 3 years, Jan and I got married a few weeks back. When I asked her to marry me it was decided by us both that in no way did we want a traditional wedding. None of the church shit. So we told no one but 2 friends who were our witnesses to our wedding. We got married on at the shores of a lake just up north of us. It was perfect.

 

That night and the next few days we told our own daughter, family and friends what we had done. No one was upset that they were not invited.

[Vendredie]

Happy Valentine's Day!

 

Well, hearing that a guy is Xian is an automatic romantic turn-off for me, so that might solve the problem. Unless I fell in love before discovering that whoever it is is a liberal Xian and open to being unequally yoked. I would consider marrying in a church or having a single Xian

element in my wedding only for my hypothetical

fiance's sake, not for his or my own parents. Our wedding is our wedding, not anyone else's tool to spread their trash. Obviously anything remotely suggesting "roles" in a marriage, such as who wears the pants, will be kicked to the curb. That includes name-changing--"Mrs." nothing. I will keep my last name because I am an individual, not an extension of someone else. I strongly dislike the giving-away tradition because it's a symbol of the era when women were property, transferred from their fathers directly to their husbands. But I don't want to hurt my dad's feelings, and he is extremely oversensitive. Causing a feud would not be good. I hope religion will be minimized, but I guess some things are unavoidable.

So glad to find another sane person!  I will not be changing my name either, nor will I have my dad give me away.  Nothing against my dad, of course, it's just an ass-backwards tradition and I'd prefer that Hypothetical Future Husband and I walk down the aisle as equals.  I'm not property to be transferred.

 

I don't think my parents would mind me dropping it.  They eloped, after all. 

[SoulofSilver]

 

I don't think my parents would mind me dropping it.  They eloped, after all.

Honestly, after my sister's wedding my mother told me she'd be happier if I just went out and eloped.

[wndwalkr99]

Happy Valentine's Day!

Well, hearing that a guy is Xian is an automatic romantic turn-off for me, so that might solve the problem. Unless I fell in love before discovering that whoever it is is a liberal Xian and open to being unequally yoked. I would consider marrying in a church or having a single Xian

element in my wedding only for my hypothetical

fiance's sake, not for his or my own parents. Our wedding is our wedding, not anyone else's tool to spread their trash. Obviously anything remotely suggesting "roles" in a marriage, such as who wears the pants, will be kicked to the curb. That includes name-changing--"Mrs." nothing. I will keep my last name because I am an individual, not an extension of someone else. I strongly dislike the giving-away tradition because it's a symbol of the era when women were property, transferred from their fathers directly to their husbands. But I don't want to hurt my dad's feelings, and he is extremely oversensitive. Causing a feud would not be good. I hope religion will be minimized, but I guess some things are unavoidable.

Agreed on most counts, though I would not have considered getting married in a church.

 

We don't have traditional gender roles in our relationship either, and I didn't change my name. I'm an anomaly where I live, but don't give a fuck about that.

 

We eloped and called a friend to witness. Very fine plan....no need to explain to my dad why he wasn't walking me down the aisle. It just wasn't an issue and it was over. My mom didn't speak to me for a few weeks but it was worth it.

[greylight]

 

Happy Valentine's Day!

 

Well, hearing that a guy is Xian is an automatic romantic turn-off for me, so that might solve the problem. Unless I fell in love before discovering that whoever it is is a liberal Xian and open to being unequally yoked. I would consider marrying in a church or having a single Xian

element in my wedding only for my hypothetical

fiance's sake, not for his or my own parents. Our wedding is our wedding, not anyone else's tool to spread their trash. Obviously anything remotely suggesting "roles" in a marriage, such as who wears the pants, will be kicked to the curb. That includes name-changing--"Mrs." nothing. I will keep my last name because I am an individual, not an extension of someone else. I strongly dislike the giving-away tradition because it's a symbol of the era when women were property, transferred from their fathers directly to their husbands. But I don't want to hurt my dad's feelings, and he is extremely oversensitive. Causing a feud would not be good. I hope religion will be minimized, but I guess some things are unavoidable.

So glad to find another sane person!  I will not be changing my name either, nor will I have my dad give me away.  Nothing against my dad, of course, it's just an ass-backwards tradition and I'd prefer that Hypothetical Future Husband and I walk down the aisle as equals.  I'm not property to be transferred.

 

I don't think my parents would mind me dropping it.  They eloped, after all. 

 

I feel the same way. I won't be changing my last name either, mostly because of the previous feminist reasons stated. I find the father walking the bride down the aisle a rather creepy tradition, at least in my opinion. I mean no offense, but I can't separate it from it's oppressive roots in my mind.

[Ross]

My wife has not changed her name. She is still a Ms. and keep her family name. I do not own her. I have no right to make her have my last name. 

[Ro-bear]

Just curious if you unmarried no-longer-Christians plan to have your future wedding in a church?  Will there be religious elements?  Who will it be for?  Your family?  Your spouse? 

 

Doesn't it hurt to think about having that stuff slink into your "special day"?

 

I'm an atheist, and I absolutely will not have religion involved in my wedding day.  Not even for my future wife's sake (maybe that makes me a bad person in this case, but I shouldn't have to lie on my wedding day).

My wife and I married outside at her family's ancestral cabin in the woods.  There was no religious language in the ceremony.  I don't think anyone even noticed, since our vows were quite traditional apart from a few expurgations.

[buffettphan]

If I were to remarry, it would never be to a christian, so a church venue would not be an issue.  I'd prefer an outdoor setting.    

 

DH & I were married in a catholic church (my mother's church) almost 40 years ago.  Neither of us were practicing catholics and the priest who married us knew that.  He was fine with it.  We told him we did not want a mass, just a brief ceremony -- 15 minutes tops.  He laughed and was fine with that.   We asked that no mention of children be included in the ceremony because we weren't sure we wanted kids.  He was fine with that.  No mention of the word "obey" -- he was fine with that.   We had no readings from the bible, but rather an excerpt from Kahlil Gibran's, The Prophet and a couple of other poems/essays.   He was fine with that.  We had our reception in the church hall with booze, a live band (friends from college), and dancing.  It was a real party that people enjoyed. The priest was fine with that.

 

A few years later...

The priest left the church and got married.

I went from non-practicing catholic/agnostic to atheist.

DH is now DFH/DearFundyHubby (that happened about 12 years into our marriage and yes, we're still married).

Overall, life is good -- well, good enough anyhow.  

Go figure......

 

Oh, eventually we did decide to have two kids, now adults.  One got married on the beach in the Outer Banks (NC) and the other in Vegas.

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------

 

This was the main reading we had at the wedding and I still love it:

 

 

 

 

On Marriage

 Kahlil Gibran

*

Let there be spaces in your togetherness,
And let the winds of the heavens dance between you.

Love one another, but make not a bond of love:
Let it rather be a moving sea between the shores of your souls.
Fill each other's cup but drink not from one cup.
Give one another of your bread but eat not from the same loaf
Sing and dance together and be joyous, but let each one of you be alone,
Even as the strings of a lute are alone though they quiver with the same music. 


Give your hearts, but not into each other's keeping.
For only the hand of Life can contain your hearts.
And stand together yet not too near together:
For the pillars of the temple stand apart,
And the oak tree and the cypress grow not in each other's shadow.

 

 

* we omitted this part of the first verse:

 

You were born together, and together you shall be forevermore.
You shall be together when the white wings of death scatter your days.

Ay, you shall be together even in the silent memory of God.
But ...

 

 

http://www.katsandogz.com/onmarriage.html

[DOswalt]

It just occurred to me the other day that I would have to rethink what I had in mind for a wedding. I would have a hard time marrying someone that was not an atheist or at least more secular than religious. I would prefer outdoors type thing. And I do think that there are enough advantages to getting married to do that over just living together. 

[Liesbet]

Nope! I'm still single and if....very if I get married, it would be away from any religious blessings and traditions.....

[Guest r3alchild]

No.

 

On a related subject....does anyone have advice for dealing with xtian in-laws refusing to attend a wedding involving another religion? His parents(read: mother and push-over father) refuse to, and honestly, neither of us give a flying fuck whether those two come, but his sisters did the same, and that hurts us.

 

I've shown them the utmost respect in this area, including setting foot in a church to attend their weddings, and they won't do me the same courtesy. It's not as though I'm asking them to take part in my rituals, just be there as witness.

If you don't care, send the invitation and if they dont come they don't come.

[FeelHappy]

I recently got married and it wasn't in a church, but if my wife really wanted a church I'd show up.  My requirement would be the pastor didn't use the time to proselytize, hell I even let the guy who married us use the 1 Cor 13 love stuff.  

 

My wife was a baptist but is more of a deist now, if she was still a believer I'd still marry her but with the agreement that I'm not going to church, not going to pray with our children and she can only take our children to a tolerant liberal non evangelical church (such as the liberal sect of the Episcopalians), any hell fire or anti-evolution bs will instantly mean the children can't go back.

[milesaway]

no church wedding for me. when i get married, it will more than likely be by a justice of the peace. fine with me.

[ConureDelSol]

Fuck no.  I have three ideas depending on the funds available when I get married.

 

1. A park (no money)

 

2. In an aviary, preferably with parrots (some money)

 

3. On the bridge of the Enterprise-D (more money)

 

I also want a dog with a perch mounted on his/her back to carry Skittles so they can be my pall bearers.  I want the after party to have puppies and kittens every-fucking-where and I want to make it an adoption event.  Fuck yeah.

[SoaringFree]

A massive no to marrying in a church and having anything to do with christianity involved. I don't need misogyny ruining a special event.

[Legion]

Lately I've had several questions directed at me from women about marriage. I don't beat around the bush. I tell 'em straight up that I won't get married. Now, if the right woman came along then I might be down for a life long commitment, or even a kid or two. But I won't get married. They've generally asked why I say this. It's an easy answer. The government has their hand too far up in it, and I won't do it.

[Adrianime]

Lately I've had several questions directed at me from women about marriage. I don't beat around the bush. I tell 'em straight up that I won't get married. Now, if the right woman came along then I might be down for a life long commitment, or even a kid or two. But I won't get married. They've generally asked why I say this. It's an easy answer. The government has their hand too far up in it, and I won't do it.

 

sadness.

[Legion]

 

sadness.

Hey man, if you want to communicate something, then why don't you do it?