Something I Can't Explain

[Guest r3alchild]

Before I was absorbed into christianity I was involved in many diffrent spiritual beliefs and ideals. When I was 17 years old I was intruduced to the ashram in melbourne australia. I went there every week and hung out with all the young people. I didnt know much about what they taught I liked all the people I hung out with. However I picked up on some chanting and gurus that taught there.

 

About 6 months later my mother heard that guru maya was teaching at a hotel and asked if I wanted to go to listen to her. I said yes and went, when I got there I sat down and listened to her for about an hour or so. She was a thin littke black woman.

 

After she finished talking people went up to her and bowed to give respect, my mother came up to me and said before you go and give your respect give these crystals to her. I said no I just want leave.

 

So I walked up and bowed down, as I did that other people ahead of me did the same. As they did the guru would tap them on the head with a pecock feather. I waited for the feather to touch my head but it didnt. I had to bow three times then I looked at her and she gave me a strange smile and tapped me on the head with the feather.

 

After that I stood up and walked to the stairs going out. Then all of a sudden I felt like I was hit by a surge of electricity. It felt like a snap, then all I could see was a endless white room and I could fell everything was made of love. It was so strong I didnt care if I never left.

 

After all that happened in reality I was falling down the stairs then the people behind me caught me before I fell face first. But in this vision I felt as if many many hands caught me.

[♦ ficino ♦]

Hello Chrisstavrous, I can't explain this except to say it sounds as though you experienced some sort of brain event.  Perhaps a neurologist would say it was a seizure?  It sounds like descriptions of Near Death Experiences.  Did you experience God?  It seems hard to me to support putting that construction on what happened to you.  If there is a personal god and it wanted to contact you, why not do so clearly?  People often have experiences that they interpret as interventions from God but that can be explained as well or better without positing that God did it.  In other words, Ockham's Razor?

 

BTW Έλληνας είσαι?  Άκουσα πως πολλοί  Έλληνες μετανάστεψαν στη Μελβούρνη.

[Adrianime]

I can't explain it, but I wouldn't trust it if I were you.

[Antlerman]

Sounds about right.    I think the question should be how has this changed you?  

[Denyoz]

After that I stood up and walked to the stairs going out. Then all of a sudden I felt like I was hit by a surge of electricity. It felt like a snap, then all I could see was a endless white room and I could fell everything was made of love. It was so strong I didnt care if I never left.

 

It's funny, when we try to explain something we can't explain, we usually explain it.

 

Everything is made of love.

That's all there is to it.

 

Thanks for this post chrisstavrous, I like it!

[Guest r3alchild]

I have never had a seizure in my life, what I think it could have been was that they might have put electric wires in the floor. Or it could have happened due to a psychosomatic respose to the occult I was involed with. Or as all the christians told me "it was satan"

[Antlerman]

I have never had a seizure in my life, what I think it could have been was that they might have put electric wires in the floor. Or it could have happened due to a psychosomatic respose to the occult I was involed with. Or as all the christians told me "it was satan"

Electric wires in the floor?  No.  These are common peak experiences.  There's all sorts of "explanations" for them, but why?  What the point?  To explain them away somehow?  Why would someone want to do that?  And that's the much deeper question.  The real point is it radically altered your perception of yourself, the world, and existence itself, right?  Is it because it's so huge that we don't know how to take that, that we try to explain it away; a spot of bad cheese, a seizure, oxygen deprivation, etc?  "Never mind that over there."   

 

Apparently however it was significant enough to stick with you, right?

[Guest r3alchild]

Not really but yes really. I look at it as a event like any event. But it did put all christian events on there arse. Satans one powerfull dude maybe more so than jesus.

[owen652]

Electric wires in the floor?  No.  

How do you know? First reaction is to say no, that's ridiculous, they wouldn't go to all that trouble, surely. Well, you'd be amazed at the extravagant lengths frauds go to in order to convince people they've had a miraculous experience. I'm not saying that's what happened in this instance, in fact I believe in altered states of consciousness and such,  but to say that fraud is impossible is ironically closed-minded.

[Antlerman]

 

Electric wires in the floor?  No.

How do you know? First reaction is to say no, that's ridiculous, they wouldn't go to all that trouble, surely.

Firstly, this description of his experience follows what is a common 'enlightenment' experience the world over. I have had this myself, and can tell you if there were an electric grid on the floor in my case, it would have had to have been wired to a whole city block.

 

Secondly, have you ever heard of this being induced by wiring in the floor? Not to mention he probably had shoes on. I am familiar with the Persinger helmut which through a very specific pattern of magnetic impulses applied to the brain is able to produce these mystical experiences. That makes a lot of sense to me. From the floor? How? Where's your supporting data from any source?

 

Thirdly, why do you assume it was my "first reaction"? I looked at what was said, evaluated it in light of these above, and some other factors not worth getting into here, and then came to an assement of its unlikelyhood. This is no knee-jerk reaction. It has a basis in rational analyis.

Well, you'd be amazed at the extravagant lengths frauds go to in order to convince people they've had a miraculous experience.

No I wouldn't. I know that happens. In this case? Highly unlikely. His description parrallels my own, and that of mystical experience the world over throughout history. These are very real and powerful, life-changing experiences. Aside from the God Helmut experiements, which actually only works in somewhere around only 10 percent of test subjects, I have never heard of anything someone does through gimickry to induce the left amygdala to fill to then shunt over into the right amydala and cause a God vision, a near death experience. If you have, please share.

I'm not saying that's what happened in this instance, in fact I believe in altered states of consciousness and such,  but to say that fraud is impossible is ironically closed-minded.

All I said was in this cause it's so highly unlikely as to be most likely impossible. This person would be richer than Solomon if she could induce these things in her followers! Think about it. So please, why do you knee-jerk to calling me closed-minded? This is absurd in regards to me. Do you know me? Have you ever read anything I've ever posted here?

[Antlerman]

chrisstavrous, on 26 Feb 2013 - 18:13, said:

Not really but yes really. I look at it as a event like any event. But it did put all christian events on there arse. Satans one powerfull dude maybe more so than jesus.

I assume what you mean is that you wish to treat it honestly in evaluating it as you might any other experience, which of course is fair and a good thing to do. But as far as events go, without doubt this goes light years beyond just any normal event in you life.

 

The funny thing about me is that when I had my first experience when I was 18, very similiar to what you described, I was not part of any religion, had not had any indoctrination into any as a child, etc. But this made me seek out a religion to try to understand this experience with. Long story short, you are right, it goes way, way beyond your average Christian experience. I could speak endlessly about this, but I'll just share my description of my own experience that I posted hear quite a few years ago for you to read: http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/19243-the-doctrine-of-hell/?p=318390

[Guest r3alchild]

Yeah I was saying that, I look at the sum of experience not the boogyman who might be behind door two.

[par4dcourse]

Head rush.

[Antlerman]

Yeah I was saying that, I look at the sum of experience not the boogyman who might be behind door two.

And that's the beginning of getting to the significance of what that was for you. I was fortunate to not have any indoctrination that instantly I hung that on. I later tried to make it fit by adopting Christianity, because I needed some sort of structure in order to understand and try to relate to it, but it failed to translate adequetly. They are far too anthropomorphic and literal for it to fit.

 

And to add here, a "rational" explaination is far too flat for it to allow the significance too grow and become alive in you. That only works if you are looking for something to bury it with, deny it, etc. "It was just a spot of bad cheese". Of course it's the brain, but so is every experience of life. Right? This is just a truly extraordinary, and significant experience. Sure, love can be reduced to a chemical, but not the experience of it!

[Kris]

You both just had brain orgasms-- no big deal!! Lucky you guys!

[Guest r3alchild]

Lol, in the words of homer simpson, "ok brain help me pass this test and ill get back to killing you with beer. Its a deal!"

[owen652]

 

. Do you know me? Have you ever read anything I've ever posted here?

Actually, yes, I've read lots of your posts.

 

As I said, I have no problem believing that perhaps this was some kind of altered state of consciousness or mystical event. I'm very open-minded towards the possibility. I was simply pointing out that fraud or a brain snap cannot so easily be ruled out, even in this case. Intense but entirely natural phenomena are routinely interpreted in metaphysical or supernatural terms.And because it was his experience, not ours, we really have no right to be judging the validity of it.  Also, he never mentioned anything about how this affected his life afterwards, you inferred that.

[Antlerman]

 

 

. Do you know me? Have you ever read anything I've ever posted here?

Actually, yes, I've read lots of your posts.

 

As I said, I have no problem believing that perhaps this was some kind of altered state of consciousness or mystical event. I'm very open-minded towards the possibility. I was simply pointing out that fraud or a brain snap cannot so easily be ruled out, even in this case. Intense but entirely natural phenomena are routinely interpreted in metaphysical or supernatural terms.And because it was his experience, not ours, we really have no right to be judging the validity of it.  Also, he never mentioned anything about how this affected his life afterwards, you inferred that.

Why are you arguing with me?  The only thing I said is I didn't believe there were electric wires in the floor.  I stated my reasoned thoughts as to why.  I know there are manipulators out there.  That they used electric wires in hard to believe, if not impossible.  

 

Can these states of consciousness as he pretty vividly described be manipulated?  I believe altered states can be brought about through certain practices, and those practices are common in religions the world over.  Can someone through these practices evoke a Satori experience?   What can be said to that I suppose is that it depends on the individual and what they are ready for.

 

And that actually raises the point I wanted to make before.  The whole symbolic act of the feather on the head probably evoked some deep subconscious aspect of him which then, because the time was right, ripped a whole through conventional, "normal" perceptual reality (a construct of mental objects we call reality, actually), and a flood of hidden information came streaming in.  It overwhelms the mind with a new awareness, a new perceptual reality.  

 

It's true I was not in his head, and I am basing this on his description which seemed pretty clear to me. Do such experiences have an impact on most people?  Certainly, but a lot of people will compartmentalize it for themselves because there not really ready to look at it.  What is his impression of it?  I only can draw of the fact a topic was started because he is looking at it.  That seems pretty apparent.  How deep and strong that might be is something I can't know.   

[owen652]

Well, he offered the electric floor explanation himself, so I assumed that he wasnt sufficiently convinced himself that it was a transcendental experience, or at least there was room for it as an explanation. Anyway, assuming that it WAS a genuine ecperience of altered perception (which I admit is likely), how does it differ from, say, an experience of being slain in the spirit, which sounds identical to what was described here?

[Guest r3alchild]

When you can't explain the fantasic, believe that it was not so fantastic. Then the fantastic becomes normal.

[Antlerman]

Well, he offered the electric floor explanation himself, so I assumed that he wasnt sufficiently convinced himself that it was a transcendental experience, or at least there was room for it as an explanation.

When I responded truthfully saying the electric floor theory wasn't likely, you called me closed-minded.

 

As far as what I am hearing here regarding transcendental experience, I believe I see the source of your confusion. It was a transcendent experience. Even if you find some explanation for it, it is still a transcendent experience. That simply means the nature of the experience was transcendent. Do you imagine somehow these are utterly causeless? I don't. There is always some explanation for them, but that doesn't then therefore make the experience not-transcendent.

 

That's the point I think you miss. It's the experience itself that is looked at, pondered, explored, etc. Not what caused it. The "what caused it" question is to look at the experience from outside of it, not to explore the 'within' of it. To look at it from outside you will not, cannot be able to look at it from within it, and hence not see anything at all.

Anyway, assuming that it WAS a genuine ecperience of altered perception (which I admit is likely)

"Genuine"? If is is an altered state, it is an altered state.

how does it differ from, say, an experience of being slain in the spirit, which sounds identical to what was described here?

Being slain in the spirit is a genuine experience. It's a common experience in religions the world over, long before modern Pentecostals incorporated it into their practices from African tribal religions.  These can in fact be induced and there are techniques one uses to produce them.  That doesn't make the insights or the experiences "not real".  

 

What exactly to you would make it "real"?  Do you understand how this is not a valid distinction?

[Antlerman]

When you can't explain the fantasic, believe that it was not so fantastic. Then the fantastic becomes normal.

Why?

[Guest r3alchild]

Ill tell you why, once I figure out what the hell I even ment.

[Antlerman]

Ill tell you why, once I figure out what the hell I even ment.

I think what you were saying is that if you don't have an explanation, then just tell yourself it wasn't anything extraordinary so then you don't have to think of it as anything special since it's just another "normal". That comes to what I said before about just compartmentalizing it away so you don't need to give it too much thought. Now that is an option, but I rather think that in your case it's just simply a matter of finding some way to talk about it that doesn't lead to some sort of fantastical, supernatural myth structure as you saw in Christianity. Sound about right?

[owen652]

Being slain in the spirit is a genuine experience. It's a common experience in religions the world over, long before modern Pentecostals incorporated it into their practices from African tribal religions.  These can in fact be induced and there are techniques one uses to produce them.  That doesn't make the insights or the experiences "not real".  

 

What exactly to you would make it "real"?  Do you understand how this is not a valid distinction?

I never said it wasn't real. Of course it was real. I'm simply wondering about the substance of it.