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Goodbye Jesus

That's A Sin!


dB-Paradox

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The one thing that really bothers me is what Christians think is sin.  Things like sex before marriage, same sex relationships, porn, swearing, etc....

 

For the most part, I don't think these things are wrong in the least bit.  As long as it's not hurting anyone and it's legal, I think all is fair game.  Of course, this will only instill in a Christian even MORE that ex-Christians are choosing a life of sin without consequence.  So, below is a made up dialogue between a Jew and a Christian to show just how ridiculous "sin" is:

 

What are you eating?

A ham sandwich.  Do you want one?

You should be ashamed of yourself!  That's disgusting!  You say it like you're proud, or something.

What are you talking about?  It's just a sandwich.

A HAM sandwich!  You don't see anything wrong with that?

Ummmm, no.

Oh, so I suppose you're wearing a polyester shirt, too!

Yeah, I think it is, why?  What's the big deal?  It's only a shirt!

You are SO disgusting!  No wonder you reject the Jewish faith!  You just want to live in your sinful ways!  You want to live a morally corrupt life with no consequence!

What???  I live a morally GOOD life.  Just because you think there's something wrong with eating ham and wearing certain clothes doesn't mean it actually IS wrong!  It's not a sin!

It IS a sin, and not because I say it is, but because G_D says it is!

You mean GOD?

Now you think it's okay to slander the name of G_D!  You are such an evil person!!!  You are living a life of sin and rebellion, and you don't want to admit it!  The devil has you good!

 

Can you imagine an actual conversation like this?  How silly it would be!  But in all actuality, there are many things Christians do that Jews feel are sinful, while the Christian feels no remorse for doing them.  This is exactly how I feel when Christians tell me that swearing is a sin, or that porn is evil.  Sin is an imaginary disease invented to sell you an imaginary cure.

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Totally agreed that sex before marriage, gay marriage, porn, swearing, and whatever else aren't "sins."  I agree also with the general ethic that if something doesn't hurt anyone else, then Christians shouldn't be able to regulate it.

 

Now the really funny thing is that I happen to live more or less just like evangelicals.  I don't swear much and I've never had pre-marital sex.  It's not that I think these things are morally wrong, it's just not how I prefer to live.  There are plenty of Christians who do these things though.  And that reinforces my claim that faith in Jesus is ineffective in changing peoples' lifestyles.

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I always say that if god wants to send you to Hell based on whether you swear, who you love, or whether you've had a CONSENSUAL sexual relationship before marriage, then he never wanted you in Heaven in the first place.

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Guest r3alchild

Well lets forget the idea of sin, but you still have to ask yourself is what I am doing healthy. Is porn a healthy way to have a relationship with someone I don't know. Is having sex with person after person a healthy way to love and be loved. Is swaring like a torrent a healthy way to talk to anyone.

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The only reason they think it's a sin is because their controlling, irrational god does.

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Once I started really interrogating the bible, I was shocked at all the stuff that I'd been told at church and school was "a sin!" actually wasn't mentioned at all, or if so only very obliquely and in a different context. There's actually nothing that says sex before marriage is a sin. It's just Paul and his vagina-phobia in Acts. If lust and adultery is such a sin, why did so many of these "Godly" men have multiple wives and concubines, anyway? How come it was now okay to mix milk and pork, or eat fried catfish, to cut your hair and wear certain garments, but it was "a sin" to be gay? It just made no sense. 

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On the other hand I didn't grow up Christian, my parents pretty much never talked about sex with me, and I didn't have sex before marriage.  Seriously, it's funny how many of the Indian Americans I know haven't had pre-marital sex (I have no data, but I'd guess we're doing better than evangelicals), and yet no one tells us it's as sin.  Oh sure, our culture has an anti-premarital sex bias, but it's not based in religion.  Our religion says a lot of contradictory things about premarital sex, and honestly the only argument I've heard Indian mothers make is "it'll ruin your future," i.e. STDs will mess up your life and teen pregnancy will kill your chances of being a doctor (aside: Indian Americans believe that you go to Hindu hell if you don't get into med school).

 

Evangelicals are the only group I know which has a large population of sexually obsessed, repressed individuals.  When I was growing up I didn't sit around thinking about how much I wanted to have sex.  But when I was a Christian, some people would tell me about these intense temptations that they had, and how they prayed so fervently for God to quell them.  Honestly, what is wrong with these people?  By obsessing so much over sex, they've created such a great demand for it.  Even their book of Romans says that temptation to sin only comes when the law against sin is revealed.  The Bible happens to reflect human psychology on this issue.  Paul is obviously trying to say that humans are rebellious.  But it's more simple than that.  If you raise some issue, people will focus on it.  By telling people "don't have premarital sex," attention is called to it, and of course people will want to do it.  I find evangelical obsession with sex almost laughable.  Like Paul, I wish these people would emasculate themselves.

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I don't believe in sin, but I do believe our culture trains us to be self centred and greedy. Shame really. So unneccesary, and we don't fight it either.

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Well lets forget the idea of sin, but you still have to ask yourself is what I am doing healthy. Is porn a healthy way to have a relationship with someone I don't know. Is having sex with person after person a healthy way to love and be loved. Is swaring like a torrent a healthy way to talk to anyone.

 

Porn is not intended to have a relationship with the people on screen any more than watching Indiana Jones is.  Having sex, likewise, is not only meant to feel loved nor is it the only way to show love.  And swearing AT or TO people is not a nice thing to do, but swearing in and of itself is fine.

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Guest r3alchild

 

 

Well lets forget the idea of sin, but you still have to ask yourself is what I am doing healthy. Is porn a healthy way to have a relationship with someone I don't know. Is having sex with person after person a healthy way to love and be loved. Is swaring like a torrent a healthy way to talk to anyone.

Porn is not intended to have a relationship with the people on screen any more than watching Indiana Jones is. Having sex, likewise, is not only meant to feel loved nor is it the only way to show love. And swearing AT or TO people is not a nice thing to do, but swearing in and of itself is fine.

Yep, yep and yep, you said that better than I did.

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On the other hand I didn't grow up Christian, my parents pretty much never talked about sex with me, and I didn't have sex before marriage.  Seriously, it's funny how many of the Indian Americans I know haven't had pre-marital sex (I have no data, but I'd guess we're doing better than evangelicals), and yet no one tells us it's as sin.  Oh sure, our culture has an anti-premarital sex bias, but it's not based in religion.  Our religion says a lot of contradictory things about premarital sex, and honestly the only argument I've heard Indian mothers make is "it'll ruin your future," i.e. STDs will mess up your life and teen pregnancy will kill your chances of being a doctor (aside: Indian Americans believe that you go to Hindu hell if you don't get into med school).

 

Evangelicals are the only group I know which has a large population of sexually obsessed, repressed individuals.  When I was growing up I didn't sit around thinking about how much I wanted to have sex.  But when I was a Christian, some people would tell me about these intense temptations that they had, and how they prayed so fervently for God to quell them.  Honestly, what is wrong with these people?  By obsessing so much over sex, they've created such a great demand for it.  Even their book of Romans says that temptation to sin only comes when the law against sin is revealed.  The Bible happens to reflect human psychology on this issue.  Paul is obviously trying to say that humans are rebellious.  But it's more simple than that.  If you raise some issue, people will focus on it.  By telling people "don't have premarital sex," attention is called to it, and of course people will want to do it.  I find evangelical obsession with sex almost laughable.  Like Paul, I wish these people would emasculate themselves.

 

What was wrong with me was in later elementary school/early middle school, I started to be taught in my Sunday School that even THINKING about another man outside my husband was a sin and was doing him and God a disservice. That this was something to be shared with my husband. I needed to censor my thoughts because even though Satan couldn't read my mind, he could usually guess what was tempting me if I wasn't carefully and if I didn't guard my thoughts/heart/spirit, etc. I felt guilt for even thinking a guy looked good for a long time.  Looking back now, unrealistic, but how was I to know that early on?   

 

It figures my mother would develop this obsession that I was secretly a lesbian! 

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What was wrong with me was in later elementary school/early middle school, I started to be taught in my Sunday School that even THINKING about another man outside my husband was a sin and was doing him and God a disservice. That this was something to be shared with my husband. I needed to censor my thoughts because even though Satan couldn't read my mind, he could usually guess what was tempting me if I wasn't carefully and if I didn't guard my thoughts/heart/spirit, etc. I felt guilt for even thinking a guy looked good for a long time.  Looking back now, unrealistic, but how was I to know that early on?   

 

It figures my mother would develop this obsession that I was secretly a lesbian!

 

Wow, sorry to hear you had this sort of upbringing.  Since I wasn't raised Christian it's often hard for me to relate to this.  I guess I'll never fully understand the guilt that's imputed to people over mere thoughts of sex.

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What was wrong with me was in later elementary school/early middle school, I started to be taught in my Sunday School that even THINKING about another man outside my husband was a sin and was doing him and God a disservice. That this was something to be shared with my husband. I needed to censor my thoughts because even though Satan couldn't read my mind, he could usually guess what was tempting me if I wasn't carefully and if I didn't guard my thoughts/heart/spirit, etc. I felt guilt for even thinking a guy looked good for a long time.  Looking back now, unrealistic, but how was I to know that early on?   

 

It figures my mother would develop this obsession that I was secretly a lesbian!

 

Wow, sorry to hear you had this sort of upbringing.  Since I wasn't raised Christian it's often hard for me to relate to this.  I guess I'll never fully understand the guilt that's imputed to people over mere thoughts of sex.

 

The odd thing about this is that when it comes to sex, christians FREAK OUT but when it comes to violence, most christians just don't really care.  As a teenager I could watch a war movie like Saving Private Ryan or even a pg-13 movie like a James Bond movie and my mother wouldn't really mind, but if she ever caught me looking at porn there would've probably been been an intervention.  For example, when I was a kid I loved professional wresting (WCW, WWF).  As most of you probably know, professional wrestling is inherently violent--it's men hitting each other with chairs and putting each other in choke holds, etc.  However, my mom didn't have a problem with me watching it until she noticed that there were women dressed in slutty outfits. It boggles the mind. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
Guest Hoseki

I agree that as long as you aren't hurting anyone, what you do is fine. However xians don't see it that way. To them, what they classify as sin IS hurting them. They have such a narrow view of the world that anything that doesn't agree with them shakes them to the core and must be stopped. The very thought that someone is having sex before marriage or watching porn is uncomfortable. Sometimes I wonder if it is a case of "since I can't do it, you can't either!"

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