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Psychology Of Sublimation


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I saw an interview with a researcher who had looked at his own DNA for markers of sociopathology. He said that he had all of them, but he had a terrific family growing up, and he said that he supposed he did a lot of sublimation.

 

This is what I've done too. I've sublimated.

 

Here's the wiki on it... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sublimation_(psychology)

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You gotta play the game, or you'll be marginalized. That's what society IS IMO. Most people are capable of BELIEVING the game - and IMO things are much easier that way if you can do it. Otherwise you gotta 'fake it til you make it'. I see little option other than opting out (or being forced out).

 

If I truly went my own way, I'd be a hermit. But I'm willing to sell my soul for comfort, security, and human contact. I think that's a fair trade. YMMV.

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You gotta play the game, or you'll be marginalized. That's what society IS IMO.

Fair enough. But I wouldn't use a game metaphor. It's a dance. And the concern for our grandchildren's children is real.

 

Most people are capable of BELIEVING the game - and IMO things are much easier that way if you can do it.

I know this girl. She's pretty. I think she knows it. I'm sad when I see her, because her world seems unreal to me.

 

Otherwise you gotta 'fake it til you make it'. I see little option other than opting out (or being forced out).

If there are a variety of sub-cultures and if when in Rome we did as Romans do, then we'd have choices.

 

If I truly went my own way, I'd be a hermit. But I'm willing to sell my soul for comfort, security, and human contact. I think that's a fair trade. YMMV.

There's a story about Lao Tzu. It's said that as an imperial librarian, when he learned of his government's corruption he left for the countryside. On his way out of the city, a guard who was aware of Lao's famed wisdom, asked him to write something before he left. Thus it is said the Tao te Ching was written, and the librarian was never heard from again.

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You gotta play the game, or you'll be marginalized. That's what society IS IMO.

Fair enough. But I wouldn't use a game metaphor. It's a dance. And the concern for our grandchildren's children is real.

Most people are capable of BELIEVING the game - and IMO things are much easier that way if you can do it.

I know this girl. She's pretty. I think she knows it. I'm sad when I see her, because her world seems unreal to me.

Otherwise you gotta 'fake it til you make it'. I see little option other than opting out (or being forced out).

If there are a variety of sub-cultures and if when in Rome we did as Romans do, then we'd have choices.

If I truly went my own way, I'd be a hermit. But I'm willing to sell my soul for comfort, security, and human contact. I think that's a fair trade. YMMV.

There's a story about Lao Tzu. It's said that as an imperial librarian, when he learned of his government's corruption he left for the countryside. On his way out of the city, a guard who was aware of Lao's famed wisdom, asked him to write something before he left. Thus it is said the Tao te Ching was written, and the librarian was never heard from again.
I used the term 'game' because I feel like the whole thing is less than genuine. But I reckon 'dance' works as well - particularly if you're less cynical than I am. Not sure what you're referring to regarding grandchildrens' children. I've opted out of that whole thing. I'm content to make room for better-adapted humans (I.e. those who can function appropriately within the herd).

 

As for this girl... what's to be sad about? That she isn't like you? Personally I think if she can easily fit in... then good for her. Her life will be easier for it. I wouldn't wish my own hang-ups onto other people.

 

There are lots of subcultures within our society where dregs like us congregate. Lots of weirdos out there if you know where to look. But they're not in the mainstream... and they suffer for it. Hell, I could argue that I abandoned just such a subculture.

 

I don't know nothin about Lao Tzu. But I do know about the countryside. And in my experience it's just as 'corruot' as any place that humans congregate.

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I used the term 'game' because I feel like the whole thing is less than genuine. But I reckon 'dance' works as well - particularly if you're less cynical than I am.

I think there's a difference between cynicism and skepticism.

 

Not sure what you're referring to regarding grandchildrens' children. I've opted out of that whole thing. I'm content to make room for better-adapted humans (I.e. those who can function appropriately within the herd).

Well, I don't believe there's any shame whatsoever in being a social animal. We've used language and coordinated our behaviors to our mutual benefit for ages.

 

I likely won't be reproducing either. As I was telling a young woman the other day, the things I've chosen to take responsibility for do not include that.

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As for this girl... what's to be sad about? That she isn't like you? Personally I think if she can easily fit in... then good for her. Her life will be easier for it. I wouldn't wish my own hang-ups onto other people.

She seems to think that her beauty alone will buffer her from it.

 

There are lots of subcultures within our society where dregs like us congregate. Lots of weirdos out there if you know where to look. But they're not in the mainstream... and they suffer for it. Hell, I could argue that I abandoned just such a subculture.

Which one was that? The mechanics?

 

I like to quote Mark Twain here... I don't want to be a part of any group which would have me as a member.

 

I don't know nothin about Lao Tzu. But I do know about the countryside. And in my experience it's just as 'corruot' as any place that humans congregate.

When last I went camping, I almost stepped on a copperhead. I also met a retired drill sergeant who was hunting turkey. Which one do you think was more dangerous?

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I used the term 'game' because I feel like the whole thing is less than genuine. But I reckon 'dance' works as well - particularly if you're less cynical than I am.

I think there's a difference between cynicism and skepticism.

Not sure what you're referring to regarding grandchildrens' children. I've opted out of that whole thing. I'm content to make room for better-adapted humans (I.e. those who can function appropriately within the herd).

Well, I don't believe there's any shame whatsoever in being a social animal. We've used language and coordinated our behaviors to our mutual benefit for ages.

 

I likely won't be reproducing either. As I was telling a young woman the other day, the things I've chosen to take responsibility for do not include that.

 

 

I'm not saying there's some kind of shame in being social.  Just saying that I'm not good at it.  Hell, I'm the shameful social-retard here... with genetic predispositions to half the mental illnesses in the DSM.  Why would I want to inflict this on another generation?  There are plenty of people out there who seem perfectly happy with this fucked-up society.  IMO, we're all better off letting THEM continue the human race.  We don't need another 'me'.  Sure, the machines will be a little worse off when I'm gone... otherwise the world will be a slightly better place from most peoples' perspective.  And who am I to argue?

 

 

 

 

 

As for this girl... what's to be sad about? That she isn't like you? Personally I think if she can easily fit in... then good for her. Her life will be easier for it. I wouldn't wish my own hang-ups onto other people.

She seems to think that her beauty alone will buffer her from it.

 

Maybe it will.  Beauty is a damn powerful thing, socially speaking.  Otherwise incompetent people build careers, relationships... even entire lives on it.  I'd say she has a real asset there- whether she understands that or not.  And she doesn't have to understand it to make use of it... lots of people do that instinctively.

 

 

I don't know nothin about Lao Tzu. But I do know about the countryside. And in my experience it's just as 'corruot' as any place that humans congregate.

When last I went camping, I almost stepped on a copperhead. I also met a retired drill sergeant who was hunting turkey. Which one do you think was more dangerous?

 

For both of us, it'd be the latter.  But not for most people.

 

 

 

There are lots of subcultures within our society where dregs like us congregate. Lots of weirdos out there if you know where to look. But they're not in the mainstream... and they suffer for it. Hell, I could argue that I abandoned just such a subculture.

Which one was that? The mechanics?

 

I like to quote Mark Twain here... I don't want to be a part of any group which would have me as a member.

 

My own sub-culture would be the hillbillies of course.  I could have gone the way of lots of people I grew up with.  I could have married a local gal from some baptist church.  Took whatever shit-job I could find down at the local factory or nuclear waste facility.  Financed a trailer and set it up on my dad's or grandpa's place.  Started popping out kids, and showing up for church every Sundy.  I could've kept that proud ignorance I grew up with, and the deeply held notion that East Tennessee is the best fucking place on earth.  All that would've been relatively easy in some ways- and it might have played out just like that had the religion thing not gotten in the way. I would have had more friends. My family would have been proud of me. I would have had a place in the world- the path was already there, and well-traveled. There are all kinds of dysfunctional weirdos among my peeps- many even worse than me.  They find a niche within that culture. Some get by working shit-jobs, or maybe do well and become a low-level manager. Others sell pills, draw crazy-checks, or the like.  Like lots of sub-cultures, it CAN be its own, self-contained reality.  Everything you need in life can be found there. 

 

Of course, there's an economic and social price to be paid for staying within a sub-culture like that.  I don't have any hillbilly-specific statistics... but suffice to say, their (our?) education and income levels are A LOT lower.  In my home town, less than half the adult population has graduated high school.  Median income is in the neighborhood of $15,000 per year.  And good luck at being taken seriously by anybody outside that sub-culture.  You know what white-bread Americans think of hillbillies.

 

Naturally I don't know other sub-cultures as well.  But they're out there.  Some you're born into, not unlike us hillbillies.  I mean, you couldn't just decide to be a black guy in the ghetto, or a Mexican illegal immigrant.  But those are very real sub-cultures.  Same goes for the Vietnamese who work in meat-packing plants in Bum-Fuck Egypt towns out on the high plains.  Betchya didn't know that there's a significant Vietnamese population out in Dodge City KS, as well as similar shit-holes in the area.

 

And that's the kind of hidden gem I have in mind.  You wouldn't believe the left-over and forgotten immigrant cultures out here in the Dust Bowl.  There are entire (and often isolated) towns out here where just about everybody has a French name.  Or German, Czech, Swedish, Russian, etc, depending on where they came from.  There are literally entire towns that re-located as a whole from Russia- the whole goddamn village moved here at once.  A surprising amount of their cultures are still intact- some of the old people even speak said old-country languages.  I married into one such Russian/German family.  These people have an insular mentality similar (in a few respects) to the hillbillies I grew up with.  LOTS of them (luckily my wife isn't among them) will be born in that town, work in the local industry, family farm, or business... pop out kids and die there.  Their world begins and ends in that little town, and the rest of the world just doesn't matter to them.  They have their share of weirdos, and they find a place in that insular little world.  Of course (not unlike us hillbillies), there's a price for this isolation.  The standard of living in places like this is significantly lower than even a mediocre metropolitan area like Wichita.  

 

This is just a pet theory of mine, but I THINK that this kind of self-contained (clannish?) society is a more 'natural' state of affairs for us humans.  I think the wide-open, anonymous, nameless, faceless, main-stream society that I've adopted (and happen to be more comfortable in) is really an aberration.  We weren't MEANT (whatever that means) to live like this... this sanitized existence with no sense of community, lowest-common-denominator traditions, and no sense of permanence.  I'm not saying I'm gonna abandon this modern society I've adapted to and go seek a simpler life- I'm too far gone for that.  I lived in BFE Kansas for several years, and was bored outta my mind.  I'm just saying that society wasn't always like it is now.  Just because somebody can't adapt to modern American society as it exists now... that doesn't mean the problem is necessarily with them.  In another time and place, they might have done ok.

 

There's another KIND of sub-culture that I have in mind too.  There are some that you're not necessarily born into (although you could be).  They just spontaneously form.  Sometimes they form around some method of making a living- other times it's just a particular lifestyle.

 

I mentioned carnies a while back.  I met some several years ago out in BFE Kansas.  These guys (and a few gals) were just half a step above homeless.  They traveled from town to town doing shitty county fairs and the like- often making less than minimum wage seeings how living expenses are sorta included in their pay (they live in shitty camping trailers).  Basically if you're desperate for work, in need of various drugs, and willing to live a transient life-style... you're good carnie material.

 

Another weird sub-culture I've run into are travel-trailer hippies.  I worked with this guy out in Colorado who had done this for years (he was a hippy who loved both drugs AND jesus).  He had a little money coming in (not much) from an inheretence... about $10K per year.  And for quite a few years, he'd just had no desire to work.  He had bummed around the Southwest living in various camping trailers- sometimes his own, more often with 'friends'.  He supplemented his income with odd jobs and selling weed.  There are camp-sites, national forests, ghost towns, abandoned military bases, etc. all over the West where these people park and live- and entire sub-culture of them.  I worked with him for about a year and a half- he was recently married and trying to be respectable.  But it wasn't working, and he eventually talked his wife into moving on.  I lost touch with him several years back, but last I knew he was living in some kind camper-park in Arizona, paying his lot rent by doing grounds maintenance.

 

There are fucking hobos out here.  Literally- there are transients out here who 'ride the rails'.  Can't say I know much about them- I've never talked to one.  But I've seen them around.  There was even a camp right along the tracks near where I lived in Colorado.

 

Let's not forget farmers.  I won't bore you with you average, semi-successful, run-of-the-mill farmers.  The ones I find more interesting are the transients.  I've known guys out here who have spent much of their career working in slaughter-houses, driving cattle-trucks, living at feed-lots (you can't just commute to lots of these places- you have to live there if you hire on), etc.  Lots of these guys are on meth and/or pills; many are barely literate.  But there are thousands of them- and I'm kinned to some by marriage.  It's no kind of life- I'd sooner shoot myself.  But that's what people end up doing to get by when they have no skills and live in an isolated corner of the fucking Dust Bowl.  Some roam state-to-state hiring on at one ranch, feed-lot, etc. or another.  Lots of times they'll hire on with a harvest crew in late spring (starting in Texas), and work their way north with the wheat harvest- pulling their camping trailers all the way up into Canada as Fall approaches.  Then they'll head back south, and hire on somewhere... or do some farming of their own.  I know several people out here who have never held a 40-hour-week job.  It's just not done that way for white trash in certain parts of the country.

 

So yeah, there wasn't much point to this except to rant about all the weirdos I've met over the past several years.  And to say that these are the alternatives that I'm aware of to main-stream American Life.  Lots of people DO manage to find their niches in out-of-the-way sub-cultures like this.  Personally, I'm too much of a pussy.  And I like air conditioning too much.

 

 

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Rank, thanks for sharing that. I thought it was tragically beautiful.

 

I want to think a bit before I try and respond with greater detail.

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You gotta play the game, or you'll be marginalized. That's what society IS IMO. Most people are capable of BELIEVING the game - and IMO things are much easier that way if you can do it. Otherwise you gotta 'fake it til you make it'. I see little option other than opting out (or being forced out).

 

If I truly went my own way, I'd be a hermit. But I'm willing to sell my soul for comfort, security, and human contact. I think that's a fair trade. YMMV.

 

 

BTW Rank, you just lost The Game.

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You gotta play the game, or you'll be marginalized. That's what society IS IMO. Most people are capable of BELIEVING the game - and IMO things are much easier that way if you can do it. Otherwise you gotta 'fake it til you make it'. I see little option other than opting out (or being forced out).

If I truly went my own way, I'd be a hermit. But I'm willing to sell my soul for comfort, security, and human contact. I think that's a fair trade. YMMV.

 

 

BTW Rank, you just lost The Game.

Maybe so - although I'm not sure we're talking about the same game. Care to elaborate?

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You gotta play the game, or you'll be marginalized. That's what society IS IMO. Most people are capable of BELIEVING the game - and IMO things are much easier that way if you can do it. Otherwise you gotta 'fake it til you make it'. I see little option other than opting out (or being forced out).

If I truly went my own way, I'd be a hermit. But I'm willing to sell my soul for comfort, security, and human contact. I think that's a fair trade. YMMV.

 

 

BTW Rank, you just lost The Game.

Maybe so - although I'm not sure we're talking about the same game. Care to elaborate?

 

 

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/the-game

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You gotta play the game, or you'll be marginalized. That's what society IS IMO. Most people are capable of BELIEVING the game - and IMO things are much easier that way if you can do it. Otherwise you gotta 'fake it til you make it'. I see little option other than opting out (or being forced out).

If I truly went my own way, I'd be a hermit. But I'm willing to sell my soul for comfort, security, and human contact. I think that's a fair trade. YMMV.

 

 

BTW Rank, you just lost The Game.

Maybe so - although I'm not sure we're talking about the same game. Care to elaborate?

 

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/the-game

I'm pretty sure I lost in at least three different ways.
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I saw an interview with a researcher who had looked at his own DNA for markers of sociopathology. He said that he had all of them, but he had a terrific family growing up, and he said that he supposed he did a lot of sublimation.

 

This is what I've done too. I've sublimated.

 

Here's the wiki on it... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sublimation_(psychology)

 

I wouldn't make too much of it. Many of those that have lofty and driving goals and have learned self control, I believe, are capable of overcoming almost any possible genetic handicaps or adverse propensities, often with seeming ease and alacrity. smile.png

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Is it possible to be not attractive and not socially adept and not suffer?

 

Is that actually possible?

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Is it possible to be not attractive and not socially adept and not suffer?

 

Is that actually possible?

 

Of course it is possible. Ask some highly functional introverts like theorists, research workers, designers, engineers, artists, composers, etc.  Many people do just great by themselves. One can work on being more physically attractive, and/or have work done smile.png. Being socially adept is a learned trait, while being attractive physically of course helps socially.

 

Happiness is created within an individuals mind, so one might consider the concept that happiness is the individual's choice if they have the tools to know how to do it smile.png

 

One "humorous" strategy might be to learn how to enjoy suffering as in masochism, maybe?  smile.png

 

"Imagine if your beliefs will never get you where you want to go." -- Tony Robins

 

Just that one sentence in your signature, when well considered, could change a person's beliefs, improve their perspectives,  happiness, and capabilities in life, right?

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Pantheory: I have not made  your acquaintance yet on these forums, but  I am amazed at your response considering you must be an older person..

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Pantheory: I have not made  your acquaintance yet on these forums, but  I am amazed at your response considering you must be an older person..

 

About myself: Introduction: My name's Forrest, people call me Forrest (from the movie Forrest Gump smile.png  )

 

I just joined a couple of weeks past. I have recently been talking with Legion and others on another thread here.

 

Since I am a theorist my postings have so far just been in the Science vs. Religion section, save one external.  Although strongly math-science minded, generally all of my theories are contrary to mainstream cosmology and physics. Most other sciences including evolution, I am generally in agreement with. I am a confirmed atheist but have nothing against religion. I am fairly knowledgeable about Christianity, its different sects, and other religions in general, and do not personally enjoy bagging on religions but am not against a good religious joke now and then smile.png

 

I am a fruitarian, meaning I primarily eat fruit and dairy such as soy, legumes, nuts, berries, eggs, cheese, milk, etc. etc. I have a real up-beat personality and do my best at womanizing (not married), amongst a number of other "good" qualities smile.png  I travel a lot and live in Los Angeles. BTW I was in your State last week, south-east coast, Ft. Lauderdale, Miami, West Palm Beach.

 

Yes, I am very likely older than you but that has not changed my behavior or capabilities much smile.png, nor my perspectives of life either. Besides my scientific writings, which can be seen at pantheory.org, I wrote a book to be published in late 2014, called Living Symbiotically (living in harmony), which will sometimes relate to my comments.

 

enough about me, care to give me a brief perspective of youself?

 

Cheers smile.png  Forrest

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I saw an interview with a researcher who had looked at his own DNA for markers of sociopathology. He said that he had all of them, but he had a terrific family growing up, and he said that he supposed he did a lot of sublimation.

This is what I've done too. I've sublimated.

Here's the wiki on it... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sublimation_(psychology)

 

I wouldn't make too much of it. Many of those that have lofty and driving goals and have learned self control, I believe, are capable of overcoming almost any possible genetic handicaps or adverse propensities, often with seeming ease and alacrity. :)

The people at work know that I will dance and sing.

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Thanks for the information, Forrest.

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The people at work know that I will dance and sing.

 

 

Song and dance are super cool but how about the wine and women that should go along with it?  smile.png

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Like lots of sub-cultures, it CAN be its own, self-contained reality.  Everything you need in life can be found there. 

 

Rank, you seem to have crystalized several ideas for me here. But I'm not sure. Let me bounce some ideas off of you. They're still sort of coalescing, but they seem to be hovering around some ideas about nomads, trade of goods and services, viable populations, and social closure. Let me think a tad more.

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The people at work know that I will dance and sing.

 

 

Song and dance are super cool but how about the wine and women that should go along with it?  :)

Yes, well... I can be a bit too serious at times. My libido and my desire to escape from reality are things I must manage. I play, but it's a strange thing.

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The people at work know that I will dance and sing.

 

 

Song and dance are super cool but how about the wine and women that should go along with it?  smile.png

Yes, well... I can be a bit too serious at times. My libido and my desire to escape from reality are things I must manage. I play, but it's a strange thing.

 

Good enough, different strokes for different folks :). Any self conflict, however, should be delt with first, sometimes simply by just altering ones perspective(s). Sweetened perspectives can improve the taste of wine, women, and song (lfe) :)  Worthy goals and ongoing satisfaction of a life being well-lived (according to your own standards), should always be prime motivators, IMHO :)

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Any self conflict, however, should be delt with first, sometimes simply by just altering ones perspective(s).

I'm a Jekyll and Hyde. But I wasn't always aware of this.

 

We hide things from ourselves so that we may better look at them later.

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There are lots of subcultures within our society where dregs like us congregate. Lots of weirdos out there if you know where to look. But they're not in the mainstream... and they suffer for it. Hell, I could argue that I abandoned just such a subculture

You are not a dreg Rank, and neither are any of us. The mainstream is a game, you either play or you stand aside from it because you see how pathetic and high school it is.

 

None of us created the world we have been dropped into, the only thing we can really do is accept it or reject it. Most people accept it because it is easier. I'm hard wired not to accept it because it is bullshit.

 

None of us have the right to be judging other people as "dregs" by virtue of the material possessions of the family they were born into, how attractive they are or how much intelligence they have been gifted with. Doesn't stop people from doing it, but it is illogical. Stupid pecking orders cause so much trouble.

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