What's a minister to do

[Guest Yersh]

I have no idea why I am posting this but here goes. I am a fundie Christian minister who has lost my faith.

 

It has been gradual and to be honest I really don’t want to loose it but the reality is that it is gone.

 

My wife is seriously pissed and won’t even breach the subject, mostly I think because she is afraid our children will go to hell and she married me because I was in her denomination.

 

I am screwed quite frankly and my situation is such that I must remain in ministry for at least two more years ……. Sounds like an eternity.

 

So pour on the pity and any advice you may have. Thanks

[Taphophilia]

Hi Yersh,

 

Glad you found this site. I am so sorry to hear about your situation.

 

I don't have any advice, but there are a lot of people here whose advice and insight I value. They will step up to the plate where I fall short.

 

Welcome!

 

Taph

[futurekid]

Thank God there aren't any eternal consequences to leading out in a faith that you don't have any conviction about personally.

 

It might help to look at what you do as a normal job. You are paid to represent a specific brand - God's brand. While you're on the clock, you should be the best darn representative for that brand in the business. On your own time, you can feel free to let your mind focus on what you know to be true. I don't know if you've heard about it but Wal-Mart has their employees get all revved up at a daily pep rally which is just as dogmatic as any religion.

 

As far as sowing seeds in people's minds or otherwise dropping clues about your current state of mind, try your hardest to not do any of that until your last week or two.

 

^All just IMHO of course.

[Vigile]

Hi Yersh,

 

That must have been a difficult letter to write. I wouldn't dare try and offer you any advice since I haven't been in your shoes. We have another member, Bongo, who also has to keep his thoughts to himself for the sake of his family. He just has to sit in the pews on Sunday though. Yours may be a tough road to travel but if you are smart enough to see through the myths that surround christianity I suppose you are also smart enough to create a positive outcome out of this situation you now find yourself in as well.

 

Hopefully we can at least provide you some support.

[Dianka]

Yersh, how often do you have to lead the services?

 

Personally I think these next two years will damaging if you try to do this hush hush. You and your wife need some help from a therapist. Or maybe just you. The point is that you need someone that will not judge you by God's standards, seeing as how you are done listening to God.

 

How much have you told your wife about your disbelief? I don't know if this is dishonest, but would it salvage your relationship to tell her that you are doubting God, but that it is a normal process in faith? If she sees this as a transition in your faith instead of denial of faith, maybe she will be more receptive to your problem. I can promise you that no matter how much she tries to avoid talking to you about this, she can't ignoring it.

 

I don't know what the fallout will be if the church found out that you no longer believe. I can imagine the problem is more than just being asked to leave. I don't see how you can cope with all of this for two years without at least one person that is willing to listen to you: therapy.

 

 

p.s. I have never been married, and I was not much of a Christian, so essentially I don't know what I am talking about.

 

Good luck

[Ro-bear]

If I'm wrong, please forgive my skepticism.

 

I don't think words like "pissed" and "screwed" are characteristic of fundie ministers. I don't think they refer to themselves as "fundie". If you are a fundie minister, you don't fit the stereotype even remotely.

 

While Christians are notoriously lax with the language, their leaders usually have some facility with verbal expression. One doesn't "loose" faith; one loses it. One does not "breach" a subject; one broaches it.

 

I suspect you are a fraud. Perhaps you can provide some details that will allay my suspicions; then I will "pour on the pity and advice".

 

If you are sincere, please accept my apology.

[Dianka]

If I'm wrong, please forgive my skepticism.

 

I don't think words like "pissed" and "screwed" are characteristic of fundie ministers. I don't think they refer to themselves as "fundie". If you are a fundie minister, you don't fit the stereotype even remotely.

 

While Christians are notoriously lax with the language, their leaders usually have some facility with verbal expression. One doesn't "loose" faith; one loses it. One does not "breach" a subject; one broaches it.

 

I suspect you are a fraud. Perhaps you can provide some details that will allay my suspicions; then I will "pour on the pity and advice".

 

If you are sincere, please accept my apology.

 

I see you took the B.S. detector in for a little tune up...

[Vigile]

 

 

Interesting catch Ro-bear. Guess at least one of us is alert today.

[Guest Yersh]

Well my grammar and spelling skills may suck and they do (especially when I am upset) but I am the real deal. I am church of Christ. I'm leading the worship service this morning actually. I am not the preacher but I am a 'campus minister'. Let me see.

Here in the church of Christ a spectrum exists but not a large one.

We take the Bible literally. We believe that you must be baptized by immersion to go to heaven and that musical instruments are a false form of worship based on an odd archaic Hermeneutic. I have been a progressive member of the movement for a long time, hoping to move people I encountered toward a less dogmatic faith. My studies slowly deteriorated my faith as I saw over and over again how I had to apologize and clean up the messes of scripture especially in the OT.

 

Well there is some jargon for you. The colorful language makes me feel like I am doing something wrong so I like it. With my faith I have lost deep guilt that plagued my life.

 

Sorry for sounding like an uneducated jackass. My writing skills certainly won’t be getting me a new job when I can exit ministry.

 

No apology necessary for the BS detector. I have been to the place where I would come to a site such as this and make fun. I am never going back.

[Ro-bear]

 

No apology necessary for the BS detector. I have been to the place where I would come to a site such as this and make fun. I am never going back.

 

Thank you for understanding. We do see many imposters, Christian and otherwise. I hope you don't mind if I retain some doubt.

 

The situation you describe is not enviable. The two more years of preaching would not trouble me nearly as much as the impact of my apostasy on my family. Difficult choices appear inevitable. Maybe some of our associates here have been in a similar position and could offer some advice or at least some hope.

 

Welcome to the forum, Yersh.

[Taphophilia]

Hi Yersh,

 

I was baptised COC, one of the times I was baptised. I had gone to COC for a year, so I am a little familiar with it. I know how constricting they can be. However, be thankful you are not in one of the Charasmatic denominations where you would be required to "Praise the Lord", do the Pentecostal kicker dance, and speak in tounges when you don't subscribe to it any longer.

 

At least in COC, you can act like a normal (albeit proper) human being and because you are in the position you are in I doubt people will suspect. I know this will be hard, but don't tell anyone. Living a lie is depressing, but the back lash of what would happen would be too devistating for you and your family. Like SurlyMermaid said, back track with your wife if you can.

 

It sounds like you have no support system. This site is a wonderful place to vent your frustrations and is a safe haven for thoughts and complaints that you would otherwise have no avenue to vent. We are here to support you and encourage you in your journey into freedom and truth.

 

You will learn things here, you never knew about Christianity that will only reinforce your understanding of how false Christianity is and that you have come to the right conclusion. Go through and read the threads, especially "The Lions Den" "Testamonies of Former Christians" and click here on this link

 

I hope you stay with us and we can walk with you through your journey out of Christianity for a while.

 

Taph

[Amethyst]

My writing skills certainly won’t be getting me a new job when I can exit ministry.

 

Hello and welcome. May I suggest taking a college class on writing, either technical or creative, so that you will have those skills available when you leave you job? I also suggest reading more. It's hard to know how to communicate if all you read is the Bible and church propaganda. Taking other college-level classes wouldn't hurt either, if for no other reason than to learn something new or meet other people.

[☆ TexasFreethinker ☆]

Welcome Yersh.

 

It's my opinion that in the long term you have to be be true to yourself and follow what you genuinely believe to be true. That's easier said than done, especially when many of your most important relationships have been built around your previous religious beliefs.

 

Most of us have seen friendships and family relationships sour or crumble completely because we're now seen as traitors or tools of the devil. All of my immediate family members are devout Southern Baptists and none of them will talk with me about my deconversion, altho none of them have completely broken contact with me. It's not easy, but I'm still confident that I did the right thing and hope that someday they'll have the courage to examine their own beliefs.

 

I applaud you for having the courage to take this step. I hope we're able to offer you some hope and strength.

[Dianka]

Well I am happy Yersh was not a fake, I would have really been pissed and a little embarassed.

 

Yersh, I hope the servive doesn't go too bad today.

[Japedo]

First, Welcome to Ex-C Yersh.

 

I'm not sure I have any real advice for you. Just my two cents. Let me start off by saying I have no idea where your faith or lack of faith is. I'm going by your statement that you have lost your faith, which leads me to believe you need rationality and reason.

 

About Staying in the ministry:

 

I honestly can't see how you can continue any sort of ministry knowing it's a fraud (?) Why must you continue for 2 years? If reasons are because of contract, aren't there clauses of the reasons it can be voided?

 

Second, It would be dishonest to dupe more people into Cult like mentality. The threat of hell fire and brimstone is a tool that religions use and count on for the people to stay in line. If you don't have that fear how can you lead people into this mindset? Sure, you can act if you want to, but why pry on peoples fear of the unknown because you feel you must continue for 2 years? It's causing unnecessary stress and grief to blind participants. What do you get out of it, other then a paycheck?

 

 

About your family:

 

My advice on this is honesty is always the best policy. How is it fair to any involved to live a lie? How is it right to any involved to play pretend, when the other half of your relationship is believing you're being honest? When I got married, I married a Christian, and was at the time a Christian. The best thing about living is change. I'm not anything like the person I was when I got married, nor is my Husband.

 

Today, I'm adamant about laying no claims to that religion or any religion or god. My husband likes to read the Left behind BS, and still believes someone's going to come down on a cloud and save the world (LOL). I make mysmart ass comments to him, I try not to belittle his 'belief's, but I end up belittling them, for hope one day He will break those chains of fearing "Questions".

 

 

As far as my 4 kids go. They are raised in reality and I do not permit any sort of Religious indoctrination. I encourage them to seek out the truth, to always question and remain skeptical. Anyone claiming to have ONE WAY is full of shit IMO. I also was raised in extremism, which is probably why I have such a deep seeded hate and zero tolerance for it.

 

Everyone's Different, but I would imagine people who have thought they lived the "truth" all their lives would become angry in finding out the real truth of the matter. Most develop a contempt for the perpetrators of the lie... Could be you're different, and are able to over look that and continue duping others with out care.

[highvoltage]

Hi Yersh, and welcome to ExC. I'm an ex CoC missionary, myself.

 

...

About Staying in the ministry:

 

I honestly can't see how you can continue any sort of ministry knowing it's a fraud (?) Why must you continue for 2 years? If reasons are because of contract, aren't there clauses of the reasons it can be voided?

 

Second, It would be dishonest to dupe more people into Cult like mentality. The threat of hell fire and brimstone is a tool that religions use and count on for the people to stay in line. If you don't have that fear how can you lead people into this mindset? Sure, you can act if you want to, but why pry on peoples fear of the unknown because you feel you must continue for 2 years? It's causing unnecessary stress and grief to blind participants. What do you get out of it, other then a paycheck?

 

I agree with Japedo. Once I left the faith, it felt way too dishonest to continue in any sort of ministry capacities. I wasn't on any payrolls (all volunteer service at the time), so it wasn't as hard for me to leave church as it seems to be for you. I feel for you right now, really I do. My thoughts are with you, as I know how hard this can be. My family is still staunch CoC (which I'm sure you understand what I mean by that ) But honesty is really the best policy. It's a sticky situation, but being honest with yourself is really the best long term solution. My family was hurt at the time, but they accept me now for what I believe once they accepted that my reasons for leaving the faith are based on study rather than a simple desire to live in the flesh, so to speak.

 

I'm at a CoC university right now, actually. Abilene Christian, maybe you've heard of it? Anyway, once I figured out that the bible is no different from any of the other mythologies I've studied over the years, I left the bible college and enrolled in the physics department where I am now. I still stick around here because I've got some great friends and the physics department is actually world class, surprisingly enough.

 

Again, welcome to ExC. You've come to the right place.

[pandora]

Welcome, Yersh. I was a member of the Christian Church, a denomination related to yours. I understand why you call it fundie, because no one in those denominations would think of it that way... only those leaving those denominations see that they teach the same things as the fundie churches, just with a more modern feel or laid back feel (minus music).

 

As for your position in the church-- that is really a hard one. Perhaps you could do a search online of ex-ministers. I know there are a lot of ministers out there who no longer believe but keep the job anyway because it is what they were trained to do (the minister who married my husband and I, for example... for some reason he was honest with us on a personal level because we weren't conservative Christians). Anyway, find some people who have been in your shoes regarding being a pastor... see what they have to say. I would say you need to get things straightened out with the wife before you leave the church.

 

Now for advice about your wife--- heh. That is hard too! My husband and I married both Christian Church christians (although had to get married in a Methodist church because I had not been immersed). We met at a Billy Graham Crusade. Really. VERY ironic, considering we are both ex-Christians now. Anyway, my deconversion came first. By the time I had completely made an internal and external (not being afraid to tell anyone) break, my husband was right behind me.... and he has more recently deconverted. I attritubute that to the fact that I was open with my questions about the faith as I learned new things, and my husband is the kind of guy that craves knowledge.... he would research until the wee hours of the night trying to come up with solutions. I believe that my openness helped his deconversion and helped keep our relationship together during this difficult time... he got a chance to think things thorugh and see them from my perspective, not just the apologists'.

 

But in your case, depending on the personality of your wife, I don't know what to suggest... it sounds like she may freak out at this point (since you didn't disclose anything prior to now), so I think you should back track with your wife like some of the other posters think. Pretend you are at the beginning stages of doubt and let her know about them. Take your time, don't take the next step unless you can see your wife doubting too or at least understanding your perspective. Once you have her support more or less, it will be easier to leave the church. Don't leave the church until you have your wife's heart because she might abandon you or at least get a whole group of people on your case all the time. Unless, of course, you don't really want to stay married to her... in that case, just flat out tell her and tell the church. I think that would end it fairly quickly.

[MQTA]

Well my grammar and spelling skills may suck and they do (especially when I am upset) but I am the real deal. I am church of Christ. I'm leading the worship service this morning actually. I am not the preacher but I am a 'campus minister'. Let me see.

Here in the church of Christ a spectrum exists but not a large one.

We take the Bible literally. We believe that you must be baptized by immersion to go to heaven and that musical instruments are a false form of worship based on an odd archaic Hermeneutic. I have been a progressive member of the movement for a long time, hoping to move people I encountered toward a less dogmatic faith. My studies slowly deteriorated my faith as I saw over and over again how I had to apologize and clean up the messes of scripture especially in the OT.

 

Well there is some jargon for you. The colorful language makes me feel like I am doing something wrong so I like it. With my faith I have lost deep guilt that plagued my life.

 

Sorry for sounding like an uneducated jackass. My writing skills certainly won’t be getting me a new job when I can exit ministry.

 

No apology necessary for the BS detector. I have been to the place where I would come to a site such as this and make fun. I am never going back.

 

I'll give you the benefit of the doubts raised, too.

 

Wow. That's some situation you're in. However, you're now "on the other side", so you can, rather, will have to, decide where to go from here. If you stick with your course as you're on now, you'll have to accept that you know you don't believe, but you are supposed to be helping those that do. You may find new creative ways to help them, but just accept that your help to them on their terms is what's required.

 

Or you have to become honest to yourself and others and break free completely, then determine what to do next.

 

I could never fake things. I gotta be alone with myself when I close my eyes to sleep.

 

I don't envy your position, but being honest with yourself is a first step.

 

Welcome. I hope you find your way soon.

[nightflight]

If I'm wrong, please forgive my skepticism.

 

I don't think words like "pissed" and "screwed" are characteristic of fundie ministers. I don't think they refer to themselves as "fundie". If you are a fundie minister, you don't fit the stereotype even remotely.

 

While Christians are notoriously lax with the language, their leaders usually have some facility with verbal expression. One doesn't "loose" faith; one loses it. One does not "breach" a subject; one broaches it.

 

I suspect you are a fraud. Perhaps you can provide some details that will allay my suspicions; then I will "pour on the pity and advice".

 

If you are sincere, please accept my apology.

 

 

I had the same thoughts; I wondered if this guy was a "lay minister" or some non-paid type. The language was a little loose.

 

EDIT:

I see Yersh wrote

am church of Christ. I'm leading the worship service this morning actually. I am not the preacher but I am a 'campus minister'.

 

So my hunch was correct! At least it probably means that you Yersh have another source of income, so this won't be an economically bad situation.

[pandora]

EDIT:

I see Yersh wrote

am church of Christ. I'm leading the worship service this morning actually. I am not the preacher but I am a 'campus minister'.

 

So my hunch was correct! At least it probably means that you Yersh have another source of income, so this won't be an economically bad situation.

 

 

You make a good point... Yersh, how essential to your income is your ministry position? Is it with a campus group? I take it isn't a Church of Christ group or you wouldn't be playing an instrument...

 

You could resign as the music minister for personal reasons without elaborating... but I still suggest that you get things straight with your wife before you take any further steps with the group you are involved in. It will be easier on her and your relationship (if you care to stay togetehr).

[nightflight]

You could resign as the music minister for personal reasons without elaborating.

 

Tell them something like, "I'm not feelin' it anymore" or "I lost my mojo."

[Lilith]

First, welcome to Ex-C.

 

Second, I too am very curious as to why you are obligated to continue as a minister for another two years.

[loves_learning]

Sounds like you have a very distressing situation on your hands. I feel badly for you...wish you the best of luck.

 

However, I think you need to do some reading. If you are still uncomfortable leaving the church or your position, or feel unable to do so, you can definetly benefit from taking in some more knowledge, and engaging your peers in a discussion.

 

Read this book, its a new one: "Evangelical Feminism." Yes, yes, I know, the title is about feminism and you aren't asking about that, but it has some really really great information about the history of feminism in evangelical (which is a nice word for most fundamentalist) churches. There are MANY MANY different takes on what reading the bible literally means...most people give me a *wha?* expression when I say that, but take it from a graduate student who studies this stuff NON-STOP...one person's "literal" is another person's "interpretation."

 

You must be wondering how in the world this would help...but I can say that if you educate yourself on different meanings of literal, you can still maintain your position...you can indeed say that you think the bible is literal, but in a different way that joe shmoe does. It is still literal...and if you read some stuff you'll have the info to back yourself up.

 

Also...here's another book that I really like, it is called "The Dance of the Dissident Daughter." It is a true story (autobiographical) about a woman who was married to a preacher, was a Christian writer for magazines, and had a crisis of faith too. She eventually left the church altogether, and her hubby actually did too! He pursued a career in marriage counseling for this very thing...anyway, its a good book in a lot of ways.

 

IF you want any suggestions on scholarly info about the bible, shoot me a reply. I've got GADS of bibliographies!!

[Guest Yersh]

Well first I say thank you for all of your support.

Thank you for the suggestions.

 

I have to laugh. My writing sucks but damn! I will try harder.

I have a college education (BS in Physical Science) and some how got a 3.2 GPA in Theological Grad school.

 

??s

-My financial situation forces my 2 year commitment.

-I am a full-time minister and the church is currently my only source of income

-I was just admitted to graduate school for Geographic information systems, and will be moving to half time commitment in ministry. Hopefully I will receive a teaching assistantship at the university.

-I still must teach classes, lead a small group, preach, lead singing, meet with the leaders of the congregation, attend conferences, and generally pretend to be a spiritual leader.

- On my family situation, my wife and I will be entering couples counseling soon to deal with this enormous issue.

-I do think and have contemplated my worldview for many years. My struggle with the existence of God began with epistemology and is breaking through my recent reading of Spong, Borg, Crossan, Hume, and others. I have an order in at Amazon for some other recommended things my library does not have.

 

One of my realizations during ministry has been that changing the minds of people about their traditions is next to impossible. In six months I have made no perceivable headway in moving people with whom I have influence.

 

My goal statement inside the ministry is now to bless the lives of the people I encounter. I won’t “convert” anyone if I can help it. With long time adherents I try to move forward and broaden perspectives. Most of the people in my church do not harm people around them with their beliefs except inside their families, as most of you painfully understand.

 

The original posting was spur of the moment. Very excited I hit enter.

 

I have stomached the “misrepresentation” thus far but the pressure may at some point be too much.

 

Ya’ll rock.

Yersh

[nightflight]

Is this a "Northern Exposure" type situation where the church paid for your education and now you have to give them a couple of years in return?