Guest Tehuti Nefer Posted December 11, 2005 Share Posted December 11, 2005 Because of the way the church has dominated spirituality in the West and replaced true spirituality with exoteric dogma once people become disillusioned with Christianity they may feel they must throw out the whole concept of God and turn to atheism. But is this the only course? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhampir Posted December 11, 2005 Share Posted December 11, 2005 That sounds like an excerpt from Bishop Shelby Spong book. Seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taphophilia Posted December 11, 2005 Share Posted December 11, 2005 Because of the way the church has dominated spirituality in the West and replaced true spirituality with exoteric dogma once people become disillusioned with Christianity they may feel they must throw out the whole concept of God and turn to atheism. But is this the only course? I think the only course after Christianity is to be true to yourself, find your own path, and go through the journey of life with an open heart and open but critical mind. I consider myself Agnostic because I am comfortable with not being able to know what cannot be proven true or false. I don't think it matters what we believe or not believe. Our conscienceness will either continue to exist on another level after we die or we will simply cease to exist and be worm food. Either way, I don't think it matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
☆ TexasFreethinker ☆ Posted December 11, 2005 Share Posted December 11, 2005 Because of the way the church has dominated spirituality in the West and replaced true spirituality with exoteric dogma once people become disillusioned with Christianity they may feel they must throw out the whole concept of God and turn to atheism. But is this the only course? I don't believe in a creator for the same reason I don't believe in biblegod. I see no compelling evidence. Of course there are literally millions of alternative "courses" besides atheism, but it seems like the same standards of evidence should be applied to all the courses. So far, that has led me away from any kind of theism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Japedo Posted December 11, 2005 Share Posted December 11, 2005 Because of the way the church has dominated spirituality in the West and replaced true spirituality with exoteric dogma once people become disillusioned with Christianity they may feel they must throw out the whole concept of God and turn to atheism. But is this the only course? That's simply not true. Many (like myself) are agnostic. I don't Believe nor disbelieve. I question the existence of a higher power, I'm not adamant about their not being one. However, even in studying ancient religions, there's always an underlining reason to create the god myth. Control=Power. The powers that be create the illusions then benefit from them, throughout the history of Religion this is the main theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Neil Posted December 11, 2005 Share Posted December 11, 2005 Choosing an honest alternative means that you select an alternative that meets your satisfaction and that you're not dodging or being inconsistant with yourself to hold that position. Even among Christians, there's nothing immediately dishonest about what they believe. There's no lie involved. They just haven't though things through to their conclusion. It's when you bring these things to their attention, and when they start trying to squirm away from obvious problems that it becomes dishonest. Chosing something honestly simply means that you're selecting that alternative tentatively and that you're willing to accept, at any time, that you might be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dianka Posted December 11, 2005 Share Posted December 11, 2005 Atheism can leave people feeling empty. The absence of a soul is a terrifying thought, so is the absence of any god. I would say, don't be too quick to label yourself. Eventually you will be comfortable with one thought and stick to it. I really feel that Christians are not honest to themselves. Their faith is only based on a contract with God: I will do what you want, just get me to Heaven. But just because you believe in god/s doesn't mean you have to be as selfish as Christians are. The majority of Agnostics shed that complex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted December 11, 2005 Share Posted December 11, 2005 Chosing something honestly simply means that you're selecting that alternative tentatively and that you're willing to accept, at any time, that you might be wrong. The problem is that most Christians aren't willing to admit that they might be wrong. I am agnostic myself. I don't think that we can prove or disprove the existance of a god (at least, not with our current technology). Perhaps someday, we'll be able to answer the question once and for all, but IMHO, that day isn't here yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Neil Posted December 11, 2005 Share Posted December 11, 2005 Well, we can disprove certain gods. The Christian God is an inescapable impossiblity that only survives via intellectual evasion. We can suggest that god-belief is question-begging, which works for me. It doesn't require additional knowledge to observe that a given postulate goes around in a logic circle, as it does not have a frame of reference, which is often the case with theism. I think the difference between an atheist and an agnostic is that while both accept that the god concept cannot be completely disproven, the atheist doesn't really understand why the god concept is even being granted additional consideration, because to the atheist, the circularity of the god claim is all that is needed to thwart its validity. Otherwise, the atheist understands that there are potentially true unknowns in the universe. He just doesn't hang his hat on this one in particular. Hopefully, I'm not hijacking this thread too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhampir Posted December 11, 2005 Share Posted December 11, 2005 I wasn't joking a minute ago, the opener to this topic is almost verbatim the chapter description of a Shelby Spong book I read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuroikaze Posted December 11, 2005 Share Posted December 11, 2005 Well, we can disprove certain gods. The Christian God is an inescapable impossiblity that only survives via intellectual evasion. We can suggest that god-belief is question-begging, which works for me. It doesn't require additional knowledge to observe that a given postulate goes around in a logic circle, as it does not have a frame of reference, which is often the case with theism. I think the difference between an atheist and an agnostic is that while both accept that the god concept cannot be completely disproven, the atheist doesn't really understand why the god concept is even being granted additional consideration, because to the atheist, the circularity of the god claim is all that is needed to thwart its validity. Otherwise, the atheist understands that there are potentially true unknowns in the universe. He just doesn't hang his hat on this one in particular. Hopefully, I'm not hijacking this thread too much. I pretty much agree with what your saying. It reminds me of a conversation I had with my mom the other day. I told her I was agnostic not and athiest, so I had no problem with God existing. Then I told her that I wasn't afraid of being struck dead by Yahwey because imaginary beings can't kill me. So she was like "I thought you said you weren't an athiest" "Uh.." I said, "Disbelieving in the christian god isn't the same as disbelieving in all gods" I think that revelation suprised her...though it shouldn't have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tehuti Nefer Posted December 11, 2005 Share Posted December 11, 2005 I wasn't joking a minute ago, the opener to this topic is almost verbatim the chapter description of a Shelby Spong book I read. I never heard of him. I guess what I said was just a natural question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnosis of Disbelief Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 Once you've been on this site for a while, you'll see that not every ex-christian is an atheist or agnostic. There are some here who have opted for other religious traditions. Atheism makes the most sense to me, but I'm not so dogmatic about it that I feel compelled to armtwist everyone I meet into becoming an atheist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 I fail to see the point of believing in a god of some sort. As far as I can see, if there is something else out there, it is unknowable. The only reason to "believe" in it would be to comfort oneself, or to persuade yourself that there is some greater meaning to life; a thought-method of somehow concluding that there is some greater purpose to all of this. I'm at the point where I have no need of such things. I've found that I'm perfectly capable of getting myself through this life, and I have no need to convince myself that there's anything more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dianka Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 .I'm at the point where I have no need of such things. I've found that I'm perfectly capable of getting myself through this life, and I have no need to convince myself that there's anything more. Absolutely. I thought I would never be able to accept that there is no God. Really I had no choice in the matter, after a while I couldn't convince myself to even think that an immortal whatever exists. After a person stops obessing over the pointless existence of everything, they start seeing that there doesn't need to be a meaning behind everything, and everything in their lives is just as important as it always was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnosis of Disbelief Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 After a person stops obessing over the pointless existence of everything, they start seeing that there doesn't need to be a meaning behind everything, and everything in their lives is just as important as it always was. Ooh, I really like how you said that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
necrosmith Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Because of the way the church has dominated spirituality in the West and replaced true spirituality with exoteric dogma once people become disillusioned with Christianity they may feel they must throw out the whole concept of God and turn to atheism. But is this the only course? www.deism.org Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alice Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 After a person stops obessing over the pointless existence of everything, they start seeing that there doesn't need to be a meaning behind everything, and everything in their lives is just as important as it always was. I like that too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MQTA Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 me 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurisaz Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Damn, how did I miss this thread so far? Chosing something honestly simply means that you're selecting that alternative tentatively and that you're willing to accept, at any time, that you might be wrong. Absolutely true. Once you've been on this site for a while, you'll see that not every ex-christian is an atheist or agnostic. There are some here who have opted for other religious traditions. ...and somewhere in Northern Germany an Asatruar reads these words and grins... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Heaven for Kevin Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 There are many alternatives out there, as atheism is not for everyone. Agnosticism is great for people who don't want the negative stigma that goes along with atheism (although it is highly unmerited), and can't tolerate the dogma and rhetoric that goes along with religion. Deism is also a great alternative, as many of the USA's founding fathers considered theirselves in this category (George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Paine, Benjeman Franklin). It gives you a higher power, but still lets you think freely and openly about reality. It doens't really matter if you believe in a god or not, the problem is when people become brainwashed by dogma or sacrifice their own reasoning skills for superstition. It's impossible to stereotype atheists and agnostics, but choosing a lable isn't important in my opinion. Just believe in yourself, trust your instincts, and if somebody doesn't like it, it's no skin off your arse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Japedo Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 Welcome to Ex-C Kevin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All Gods Fail Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 I used to consider myself agnostic, and atheism used to trouble me quite a bit. Being labeled as 'godless' seemed so awful, and it seemed risky to deny any kind of supernatural intelligence governing the cosmos. But as time went by, and I found that I could no longer believe in gods of any stripe, I had to admit to myself that I was in fact an atheist. The funny thing is, I now appreciate life more. It seems so much more important to do something meaningful. It's up to me to create meaning to my existence, not the Furies, or Jesus, or some vague, unknowable 'force' out there in space somewhere. Anyway, being an atheist isn't some cold, hollow experience, at least not to me. Life is so amazing and cool and exciting, I don't have time to wonder about invisible beings pulling our strings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Heaven for Kevin Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 Welcome to Ex-C Kevin. Thanks Japedo! I'm very happy to be here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 Anyway, being an atheist isn't some cold, hollow experience, at least not to me. Life is so amazing and cool and exciting, I don't have time to wonder about invisible beings pulling our strings. My sentiments also. That kind of revelation has to put the christian-thinking pinball machine on tilt. Christians are led to believe that "the abundant life" is only found in christ. In church. In fellowship. Atheist are cold. Hard-hearted. Mean-spirited. Hateful. Mad at the world. Living a sad existence. Once again, bullshit. Nothing could be further from the truth. I love life. I love adventure. Things are A-O-freakin-OK. Freedom. Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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