Stupidest Things You Heard In Church

[rach]

"God delivered us from hell.  If he saved us from hell it means he'll deliver us from every lesser thing.  So there's nothing in life to be afraid of."

 

I guess we don't need police and firemen anymore!  God's got everything taken care of!

[RaLeah]

Yeah, that financial thing gets to me too. In my early years (from first working age to about 22) I gave 10% and it was BEFORE taxes, because we had a sermon on that about not giving God "the leftovers" but "the first fruits of our labor." Greedy jerks. 

 

Anyway, if I hadn't... I'd have gotten myself a much better start in life. I wouldn't have only just paid off all my debts a couple years ago. Because a few thousand on the credit card to get through college then... and paying it off later... would have made a huge difference. 

 

I think churches should specify that if you are in debt, or young, or financially struggling, YOU are the one who should be administered to, not the one squeezing yourself to give and putting yourself in worse poverty. 

 

But no, that isn't how it works. 

[pratt]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7HjoqAEYL2k

 

this pastard stays in a US$7 mil penthouse, and he is praising someone who sold their flats to give S$20k for church funds,,,,

[RenaissanceWoman]

At my old church, every sermon through the month of November was about tithing, with Thanksgiving coming up. (This included every Sunday plus the Wednesdays in between -- a lot of tithing talk.) I finally confronted my elder a few weeks ago (I'm technically still a member) and told him that is why November has the lowest attendance, and only the core people show up for services and for the final "presenting of tithe commitments" on the Thanksgiving eve service. He had no idea what I could possibly mean. I then went off a little about the inner circle being out of touch with the rest of the sheep, and I even referred to the leadership as kool-aid drinkers. (He understood the reference but was still very confused.) Clueless!

 

And yes, in case you're wondering, I'm kind of a brat about these things now.

[ExXex]

Urgh, the church I used to go as a student used to have a 'giving month' where we'd basically be pestered into giving the church money, I thought it was really vulgar, especially since many of us came from little churches that made do with what they had. Since many of us were living on student loans I joked that it should count as a negative income and the church should really be giving us 10% of the interest we'd be having to pay back! Although they did have a sermon addressing whether it was okay to give money you've been loaned or given to live on to the church (the answer surprisingly wasn't 'none of our business')

[gall]

At my old church, every sermon through the month of November was about tithing, with Thanksgiving coming up. (This included every Sunday plus the Wednesdays in between -- a lot of tithing talk.) I finally confronted my elder a few weeks ago (I'm technically still a member) and told him that is why November has the lowest attendance, and only the core people show up for services and for the final "presenting of tithe commitments" on the Thanksgiving eve service. He had no idea what I could possibly mean. I then went off a little about the inner circle being out of touch with the rest of the sheep, and I even referred to the leadership as kool-aid drinkers. (He understood the reference but was still very confused.) Clueless!

 

And yes, in case you're wondering, I'm kind of a brat about these things now.

 

there is a good reason they are referred to even in their own fold as "sheep"

 

I would rather be a wolf any day.

[gall]

Since we're on money topics....I heard a recent sermon where the preacher said that you should NOT leave your money to your kids in your will.  One guess at where your money should be left!!!  Anyway, he said that children don't appreciate what is given to them, they should work for what they have.  He also said that in the US each generation does better than the last so our kids will do better than us anyway, so why waste money on people who will do better than you anyway?  You should name only the church in your will.

 

I was super-offended at this dreadful financial advice.  It was on the radio and I thought maybe it was an old sermon, pre-2008, when everybody with investments lost half, and people who planned to retire that year had to re-think that.  My son graduated high school in 2008 and the money we had saved for college got slashed in half.  But thank our intelligent brains, we had bothered to save for him because we still got him thru college with no debt on his part, or ours.  And it WAS a recent sermon.  What an evil thing to say to parents!  The news reports say that this current generation will be the first to NOT do better than their parents.

 

I also remember as a very young mom in the very early 90's, when my babies were babies, being in a mom's group where one of the moms said how her minister preached that you MUST give 10% to the church, PLUS additional when special things like a building fund were needed.  He actually advised people, and young parents, to put the church first, and NOT to save money for your kids' college or your retirement, because if you are faithful with tithing and gifts, then god will be faithful to you when it is time for your kids to go to college or to retire.  Flippin' bullshit!  So again, thank our intelligent brains, we ALWAYS put our kids' savings funds AND our retirement funds first, and we did give to the church but NEVER tithed (and never felt bad for one second about that).  That is incredibly irresponsible and evil financial advice.

 

I know a man and his recent ex-wife, in their mid-50's (close to my age) who have never owned a house because they could not afford it, had their kids take out loans for college because none had ever been saved, and have several times had their utilities turned off because they didn't keep up on their utility bills.  The ex worked one full-time job, and the man worked two full time jobs, but could never get ahead. The man says he can never see being able to retire because there is nothing saved, and the recent divorce has only made things worse since they now have to rent two places rather than just one.  But damned if they didn't tithe AND give frequent "love gifts" to the church and their pastor.  

 

Gall, I am very sorry your parents fell prey to this horrible indoctrination.

 

Good parenting includes financial responsibility, AND teaching financial responsibility to your children.

 

While they are still devote believers they at least finally saw our shitty churches are. They no longer go to one and at least meet with friends when they feel the need to partake in all that stuff. Saves them money and they have a lot less drama over this stuff and seem happier. They never really as an adult tried to force me into anything. Sure they talk but they respect that I am an individual and they better since they taught me that skill first.

[milesaway]

Since we're on the subject of money, i'm reminded of my last attempt at church, and how the priest there would bitch and moan about church funds like it was going out of style any minute at the end of the service on Sunday. Every. Single. Time. It was church-name fund this, annual diocesan appeal that. There were fundraisers that cost a fortune to buy tickets for, so i never bothered with those. There were rummage sales full of useless crap you'd find in a thrift store bargain bin. There were the breakfasts where they'd charge money and yet give you only miniscule helpings of food which you could only go back for seconds if and only if there was leftovers. All of this was in addition to the tithes they suck in from the congregation.

 

Wow. I never realized how money hungry this church was until i wrote this. And to think there was a time when i was going to actually join that stupid place. *shakes head*

[gall]

Since we're on the subject of money, i'm reminded of my last attempt at church, and how the priest there would bitch and moan about church funds like it was going out of style any minute at the end of the service on Sunday. Every. Single. Time. It was church-name fund this, annual diocesan appeal that. There were fundraisers that cost a fortune to buy tickets for, so i never bothered with those. There were rummage sales full of useless crap you'd find in a thrift store bargain bin. There were the breakfasts where they'd charge money and yet give you only miniscule helpings of food which you could only go back for seconds if and only if there was leftovers. All of this was in addition to the tithes they suck in from the congregation.

 

Wow. I never realized how money hungry this church was until i wrote this. And to think there was a time when i was going to actually join that stupid place. *shakes head*

 

and they don't pay taxes on a cent of that. I know it costs money to run a building I do understand. Maybe there are just to many churches in some areas that lead pastor, priest(s) to beg, prod and guilt people into more money. I know that when I did go to church with my parents as a child before I really knew what was going on with all of that and just thought it was something that adults did, they posted the budget info in the weekly handout paper they gave everyone. Now I was not economist at nine but I could easily tell you they barely took in enough money most months to cover the bills to pay heat and electric. the issue to me really is why are their so many churches asking for so much money? If the number in a city cannot be sustained you cannot honestly in logic and reason (and that is sort of economics, either that or you fail) say that there should be that many churches operating.

 

It really is simple business isn't it? If there are x people in your city and % of them use y service you can only have enough y service to sustain the current demand and safely plan for predetermined growth based on past experience. Any one else attempting to enter the market is going to find barrier to entry in a saturated market. Churches do this very thing in unhealthy ways and then cry louder and louder for more money while they fail into the dirt. The problem is they take people down with them emotionally, physically, and economically.

 

These are just my views but I see this for one more reason why the modern church is a lie. You cannot be a place of worship and a business at the same time and expect people like myself who do not already agree with your views to accept that as the right way to live. I am sure there is a better view on it but it all just seems like a money grab not that dissimilar from what a politician does.

[milesaway]

 

Since we're on the subject of money, i'm reminded of my last attempt at church, and how the priest there would bitch and moan about church funds like it was going out of style any minute at the end of the service on Sunday. Every. Single. Time. It was church-name fund this, annual diocesan appeal that. There were fundraisers that cost a fortune to buy tickets for, so i never bothered with those. There were rummage sales full of useless crap you'd find in a thrift store bargain bin. There were the breakfasts where they'd charge money and yet give you only miniscule helpings of food which you could only go back for seconds if and only if there was leftovers. All of this was in addition to the tithes they suck in from the congregation.

 

Wow. I never realized how money hungry this church was until i wrote this. And to think there was a time when i was going to actually join that stupid place. *shakes head*

 

and they don't pay taxes on a cent of that. I know it costs money to run a building I do understand. Maybe there are just to many churches in some areas that lead pastor, priest(s) to beg, prod and guilt people into more money. I know that when I did go to church with my parents as a child before I really knew what was going on with all of that and just thought it was something that adults did, they posted the budget info in the weekly handout paper they gave everyone. Now I was not economist at nine but I could easily tell you they barely took in enough money most months to cover the bills to pay heat and electric. the issue to me really is why are their so many churches asking for so much money? If the number in a city cannot be sustained you cannot honestly in logic and reason (and that is sort of economics, either that or you fail) say that there should be that many churches operating.

 

It really is simple business isn't it? If there are x people in your city and % of them use y service you can only have enough y service to sustain the current demand and safely plan for predetermined growth based on past experience. Any one else attempting to enter the market is going to find barrier to entry in a saturated market. Churches do this very thing in unhealthy ways and then cry louder and louder for more money while they fail into the dirt. The problem is they take people down with them emotionally, physically, and economically.

 

These are just my views but I see this for one more reason why the modern church is a lie. You cannot be a place of worship and a business at the same time and expect people like myself who do not already agree with your views to accept that as the right way to live. I am sure there is a better view on it but it all just seems like a money grab not that dissimilar from what a politician does.

 

 

Didn't someone in the buybull say something about how one can't serve two masters? Guess they didn't get the memo on that one. It sickens me to think of the shit they use that money for, and yet in the same breath they whine and cry poverty. That was something else i always wondered about. I wondered how people around me would whip out their checkbooks like it was nothing during the Sunday services and put them in the collection baskets. Now i realize those people were probably going broke for this shit. How depressing.

[amateur]

Has anyone else here ever been to the Vatican and the Vatican Museum?  Holy Money-Bags, Batman!  St Peter's is huge beyond comprehension, it's so huge inside you can't even comprehend the sense of scale.  The guide we were with told us that words written along the top were 30 feet high (but looked small from the ground) and that columns inside had to be scaled so that they didn't look like they slanted in.  

 

And the Vatican Museum!  I just remember rows and rows of priceless treasures, and the only specific thing I remember (because it blew my mind) was a solid gold bouquet of roses in a solid gold vase.  Life size.  Whoa.  Bet they didn't pick that up at KMart.

 

My mom's parents had been Catholic when they left the Old Country in the 1920's but when they immigrated they refused to ever step foot in a church again.  One reason they left the Old Country was because they were poor peasants in a village where the huge Catholic church kept demanding all their money.  They left, and that was that.  After seeing those roses and the huge European cathedrals, I got it.

[Sybaris]

Has anyone else here ever been to the Vatican and the Vatican Museum?  Holy Money-Bags, Batman!  St Peter's is huge beyond comprehension, it's so huge inside you can't even comprehend the sense of scale.  The guide we were with told us that words written along the top were 30 feet high (but looked small from the ground) and that columns inside had to be scaled so that they didn't look like they slanted in.  

 

And the Vatican Museum!  I just remember rows and rows of priceless treasures, and the only specific thing I remember (because it blew my mind) was a solid gold bouquet of roses in a solid gold vase.  Life size.  Whoa.  Bet they didn't pick that up at KMart.

 

My mom's parents had been Catholic when they left the Old Country in the 1920's but when they immigrated they refused to ever step foot in a church again.  One reason they left the Old Country was because they were poor peasants in a village where the huge Catholic church kept demanding all their money.  They left, and that was that.  After seeing those roses and the huge European cathedrals, I got it.

 

The Catholic Church makes Bernie Madhoff look like an amateur

[TheRedneckProfessor]

Out of the thirty-odd years I was in the church, I could write a list a mile long and still only relay a fraction of a percent of all the stupidity I heard vomitted forth from pulpit and altar.  However, among my favorites are the following two:

 

From a "professor" at the "christian" college I attended: "The reason people have to constantly return to church and be refilled with the holy spirit is because people leak."

 

Um...Okay! That clears that question up...

 

And from the pastor of a pentecostal holiness church: "We do not allow pre-recorded music in this church because someone at the recording studio might have been smoking a cigarette when the music was recorded and the evil spirit attached to that cigarette would then have access to the house of god through the music."

 

Seriously? Even as a christian, I had to look around at the church and ask myself, "How in the name of all that is holy did they assemble entire crews of electricians, plumbers, framers, painters, and brick masons to build this church without a single smoker in the bunch?"

[Lerk]

And from the pastor of a pentecostal holiness church: "We do not allow pre-recorded music in this church because someone at the recording studio might have been smoking a cigarette when the music was recorded and the evil spirit attached to that cigarette would then have access to the house of god through the music."

 

One of the good things about being raised in a semi-logical religious environment is that we denied modern miracles, and did not believe that things today were caused by demonic spirits. We were taught that the poor epileptic kid in the bible really did have a demon, but that Satan is currently bound and those things can't happen today. Of course, this doctrine formed not because the book actually said it, but because it's quite obvious that there are naturalistic explanations for everything, and so we had to find bible verses to "prove" our observations.

 

So it is only recent news to me that people today actually believe that there are "evil spirits" attached to things. We thought that Satan was somehow able to put temptations in your path, though it was never explained how (because nobody could figure that out from the bible), but I never heard about things having evil spirits attached! And I also didn't realize that some people today still think that diseases are caused by demons. Even as a christian I would have thought that to be totally bizarre!

 

What I take from it, though, is that our version of Christianity wasn't really biblical. And even more, I realize that so-called "liberal" Christianity, the kind that accepts evolution and says that the Genesis is allegory and it's really okay to be gay, isn't Biblical either. Those religions are trying to acknowledge the real world at the same time hanging on to one last little bit of the idea of a god.

[gall]

Out of the thirty-odd years I was in the church, I could write a list a mile long and still only relay a fraction of a percent of all the stupidity I heard vomitted forth from pulpit and altar.  However, among my favorites are the following two:

 

From a "professor" at the "christian" college I attended: "The reason people have to constantly return to church and be refilled with the holy spirit is because people leak."

 

Um...Okay! That clears that question up...

 

And from the pastor of a pentecostal holiness church: "We do not allow pre-recorded music in this church because someone at the recording studio might have been smoking a cigarette when the music was recorded and the evil spirit attached to that cigarette would then have access to the house of god through the music."

 

Seriously? Even as a christian, I had to look around at the church and ask myself, "How in the name of all that is holy did they assemble entire crews of electricians, plumbers, framers, painters, and brick masons to build this church without a single smoker in the bunch?"

 

 

If I heard an adult say that to my face I would laugh at them literally loud and open like they were twelve and getting embarrassed for the first time in public.

 

Evil spirit attached to cigarette? Man I must be a walking den of evil then...I smoked for many years before I quit and I can promise I saw people smoke after church on sundays when I was a small kid and then still went with parents before I knew what was happening really. Most of the church was blue collar people and many of them smoked cigarrettes and pipes. Never heard one word about evil in the tobacco...

[Thackerie]

 

Out of the thirty-odd years I was in the church, I could write a list a mile long and still only relay a fraction of a percent of all the stupidity I heard vomitted forth from pulpit and altar.  However, among my favorites are the following two:

 

From a "professor" at the "christian" college I attended: "The reason people have to constantly return to church and be refilled with the holy spirit is because people leak."

 

Um...Okay! That clears that question up...

 

And from the pastor of a pentecostal holiness church: "We do not allow pre-recorded music in this church because someone at the recording studio might have been smoking a cigarette when the music was recorded and the evil spirit attached to that cigarette would then have access to the house of god through the music."

 

Seriously? Even as a christian, I had to look around at the church and ask myself, "How in the name of all that is holy did they assemble entire crews of electricians, plumbers, framers, painters, and brick masons to build this church without a single smoker in the bunch?"

 

 

If I heard an adult say that to my face I would laugh at them literally loud and open like they were twelve and getting embarrassed for the first time in public.

 

Evil spirit attached to cigarette? Man I must be a walking den of evil then...I smoked for many years before I quit and I can promise I saw people smoke after church on sundays when I was a small kid and then still went with parents before I knew what was happening really. Most of the church was blue collar people and many of them smoked cigarrettes and pipes. Never heard one word about evil in the tobacco...

 

 

Smoking is only considered a sin by some non-smoking preachers. The ones who are addicted to tobacco never bring it up.

[bornagainathiest]

Why do ANY churches still tithe? 

That was an Old Testament practice and was brought to an end by God himself, when His Son died on the cross.

 

Matthew 27:51, (NIV)

⁵¹ At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook, the rocks split

 

Mark 15:38, (NIV)

³⁸ The curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom.

 

Luke 23:45, (NIV)

⁴⁵ for the sun stopped shining. And the curtain of the temple was torn in two.

 

If you were to ask any committed Christian the meaning of this event, they'd tell you that this marks the end of God's separation from His people - as required by the Law.  The Jews couldn't approach or even see their God and Yahweh had to remain separated from His chosen people, lest they catch a glimpse of His face and be destroyed.

 

All of that changed, firstly with the incarnation of God as Jesus and secondly, with his death on the cross.  "It is finished!"  The tearing of the temple curtain, from heaven down to earth was the sign that Jesus' sin sacrifice was acceptable to the Father... totally nullifying any further need for the Law of Moses.

 

The apostle Paul wrote about this in his letters, saying that anyone who still relies on the Law to be justified before God will fail.  Not just because the Law justifies nobody, but also because the time of the Law is over.  Galatians covers this ground.  The Law (or any part of it) no longer applies and Christians shouldn't follow any part of it.  Tithing included!

 

The Bible even tells Christians what they should do, instead of tithing.

 

Acts 2: 44 & 45, NIV

⁴⁴ All the believers were together and had everything in common. ⁴⁵ They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need.

 

THIS is how Christians should give - according to the needs of others.

THIS is how Christians should hold their property and their earthly goods - in common, for the common good of the fellowship and the poor, the sick and the needy, just as Jesus commanded.

 

So why aren't the churches that interpret scripture literally, the ones who believe the Bible is perfect and inerrant, the ones who follow God's word as closely as they can... why aren't these churches living as their God wants them to?

 

Why are they still tithing?

 

Are they just stupid or do they love their money more than they love their God?

 

Any answers?

 

BAA

[★ Citsonga ★]

^^^ It's easier to get people to give 10% of their income than to get people to allow the church to controll 100% of their assets.

[Ravenstar]

Basically the NT proposes pure communism in it's true form, by the people. That's how I read it.

 

That's NOT how it's been practiced since probably the first century.

[bornagainathiest]

Basically the NT proposes pure communism in it's true form, by the people. That's how I read it.

 

That's NOT how it's been practiced since probably the first century.

 

To Ravenstar...

 

Pure communism by peacable agreement, cooperative consent and collective effort.  All parts of the body of Christ nurturing and supporting the others.  Not 19/20th century communism (a la Marx, Engels and Lenin) which is mostly by violence, coercion and forced effort. 

But ultimately, even the NT model of communism is still a Theocracy and still has a human hierarchy - albeit one appointed and approved by God.  Theistic communism, perhaps?

 

1 Corinthians 12: 27 & 28, NIV

²⁷ Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. ²⁸ And God has placed in the church first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, of helping, of guidance, and of different kinds of tongues.

 

First, second, third... then...then

That looks like a hierarchy to me.  To you?

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

To Citsonga...

 

But isn't that what Jesus wanted? 

For his followers to give ALL they had to the poor and to follow him - living by faith alone?

 

Seems to me that tithing lacks the total committment that Jesus was looking for.  After all, look at this verse.

 

Matthew 6:24, NIV

²⁴ “No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.

 

He's saying it's one or the other - not both. Taking this at face value then... those that tithe cannot be serving God but must be serving money.  The tithers must be devoted to money and also be god-despisers.

 

How do you read it?

 

BAA

[Ravenstar]

yes, it does...  

 

I have a lot of experience in leadership roles (management, Board of Director experience), tough stuff keeping principles before personalities.. a deep exercise in ethics. Also a hell (haha) of an education in the fact that most people have no desire to lead, but need/want/crave direction... and also that having leaders is a very good scapegoat for blame... and people seem to want that instead of taking personal responsibility.

 

It's an interesting and frustrating fact of human nature, at least at this point in our social evolution.

[★ Citsonga ★]

To Citsonga...

 

But isn't that what Jesus wanted? 

For his followers to give ALL they had to the poor and to follow him - living by faith alone?

 

Seems to me that tithing lacks the total committment that Jesus was looking for.  After all, look at this verse.

 

Matthew 6:24, NIV

²⁴ “No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.

 

He's saying it's one or the other - not both. Taking this at face value then... those that tithe cannot be serving God but must be serving money.  The tithers must be devoted to money and also be god-despisers.

 

How do you read it?

 

BAA

 

I definitely agree with you. I just don't think there would be very many churchgoers if churches demanded that their members give up all of their belongings.

[gall]

 

To Citsonga...

 

But isn't that what Jesus wanted? 

For his followers to give ALL they had to the poor and to follow him - living by faith alone?

 

Seems to me that tithing lacks the total committment that Jesus was looking for.  After all, look at this verse.

 

Matthew 6:24, NIV

²⁴ “No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.

 

He's saying it's one or the other - not both. Taking this at face value then... those that tithe cannot be serving God but must be serving money.  The tithers must be devoted to money and also be god-despisers.

 

How do you read it?

 

BAA

 

I definitely agree with you. I just don't think there would be very many churchgoers if churches demanded that their members give up all of their belongings.

 

 

How do you get to church if you give up your money for gas, your clothing for decent viewing and your car to get you there in the first place?

 

give my car away then bum a ride off someone else not offering gas money because the church already has it?

 

I can say that only the guy who lived next door would probably show up anymore.

[bornagainathiest]

 

 

 

To Citsonga...

 

But isn't that what Jesus wanted? 

For his followers to give ALL they had to the poor and to follow him - living by faith alone?

 

Seems to me that tithing lacks the total committment that Jesus was looking for.  After all, look at this verse.

 

Matthew 6:24, NIV

²⁴ “No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.

 

He's saying it's one or the other - not both. Taking this at face value then... those that tithe cannot be serving God but must be serving money.  The tithers must be devoted to money and also be god-despisers.

 

How do you read it?

 

BAA

 

I definitely agree with you. I just don't think there would be very many churchgoers if churches demanded that their members give up all of their belongings.

 

 

How do you get to church if you give up your money for gas, your clothing for decent viewing and your car to get you there in the first place?

 

give my car away then bum a ride off someone else not offering gas money because the church already has it?

 

I can say that only the guy who lived next door would probably show up anymore.

 

 

No, no, Gall.

 

This is Theistic communism, remember?

 

All parts of the church (the body of Christ) care for and nurture each other.  Therefore, you sell your car and give the money to the church leaders (see 1 Corinthians 12:27 & 28) and they, exercising the spiritual gift of Kubernesis ( http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/kjv/kubernesis.html ) divide the monies where there is need. 

 

Acts 4:33-35, NIV.

³³ With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And God’s grace was so powerfully at work in them all

³⁴ that there were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned land or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales

³⁵ and put it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to anyone who had need.

 

So, some goes to the poor, some to fund church outreach at home, some to missionary work overseas, some here, some there and some to fund transport, food, clothing and everything else the congregation needs.

 

But be careful that when you sell something - you do it honestly!

 

Acts 5, NIV.

 

 Now a man named Ananias, together with his wife Sapphira, also sold a piece of property.

² With his wife’s full knowledge he kept back part of the money for himself, but brought the rest and put it at the apostles’ feet.

³ Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land?

⁴ Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied just to human beings but to God.”

⁵ When Ananias heard this, he fell down and died. And great fear seized all who heard what had happened.

⁶ Then some young men came forward, wrapped up his body, and carried him out and buried him.

⁷ About three hours later his wife came in, not knowing what had happened.

⁸ Peter asked her, “Tell me, is this the price you and Ananias got for the land?”

“Yes,” she said, “that is the price.”

⁹ Peter said to her, “How could you conspire to test the Spirit of the Lord? Listen! The feet of the men who buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out also.”

¹⁰ At that moment she fell down at his feet and died. Then the young men came in and, finding her dead, carried her out and buried her beside her husband.

¹¹ Great fear seized the whole church and all who heard about these events.

 

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To Citsonga...

 

Could this be why nobody dares to live as the early Christians did? 

Step even a little out of line and...

 

(Draws thumb across throat while making a clicking sound with the tongue.)

 

[gall]

 

 

 

 

To Citsonga...

 

But isn't that what Jesus wanted? 

For his followers to give ALL they had to the poor and to follow him - living by faith alone?

 

Seems to me that tithing lacks the total committment that Jesus was looking for.  After all, look at this verse.

 

Matthew 6:24, NIV

²⁴ “No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.

 

He's saying it's one or the other - not both. Taking this at face value then... those that tithe cannot be serving God but must be serving money.  The tithers must be devoted to money and also be god-despisers.

 

How do you read it?

 

BAA

 

I definitely agree with you. I just don't think there would be very many churchgoers if churches demanded that their members give up all of their belongings.

 

 

How do you get to church if you give up your money for gas, your clothing for decent viewing and your car to get you there in the first place?

 

give my car away then bum a ride off someone else not offering gas money because the church already has it?

 

I can say that only the guy who lived next door would probably show up anymore.

 

 

No, no, Gall.

 

This is Theistic communism, remember?

 

All parts of the church (the body of Christ) care for and nurture each other.  Therefore, you sell your car and give the money to the church leaders (see 1 Corinthians 12:27 & 28) and they, exercising the spiritual gift of Kubernesis ( http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/kjv/kubernesis.html ) divide the monies where there is need. 

 

Acts 4:33-35, NIV.

³³ With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And God’s grace was so powerfully at work in them all

³⁴ that there were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned land or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales

³⁵ and put it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to anyone who had need.

 

So, some goes to the poor, some to fund church outreach at home, some to missionary work overseas, some here, some there and some to fund transport, food, clothing and everything else the congregation needs.

 

But be careful that when you sell something - you do it honestly!

 

Acts 5, NIV.

 

 Now a man named Ananias, together with his wife Sapphira, also sold a piece of property.

² With his wife’s full knowledge he kept back part of the money for himself, but brought the rest and put it at the apostles’ feet.

³ Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land?

⁴ Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied just to human beings but to God.”

⁵ When Ananias heard this, he fell down and died. And great fear seized all who heard what had happened.

⁶ Then some young men came forward, wrapped up his body, and carried him out and buried him.

⁷ About three hours later his wife came in, not knowing what had happened.

⁸ Peter asked her, “Tell me, is this the price you and Ananias got for the land?”

“Yes,” she said, “that is the price.”

⁹ Peter said to her, “How could you conspire to test the Spirit of the Lord? Listen! The feet of the men who buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out also.”

¹⁰ At that moment she fell down at his feet and died. Then the young men came in and, finding her dead, carried her out and buried her beside her husband.

¹¹ Great fear seized the whole church and all who heard about these events.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

To Citsonga...

 

Could this be why nobody dares to live as the early Christians did? 

Step even a little out of line and...

 

(Draws thumb across throat while making a clicking sound with the tongue.)

 

 

 

I will take your word for it as I won't fill my valuable brain space with those verses I see you quote constantly. I know you are not doing it in support of religion but I just can't justify using them in anyway because to me it is like using "see spot run" to justify religion.

 

Nothing personal but I could care less if the versus support anything or nothing I have read all the bible versus I ever will at this point but I appreciate your effort.