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Theorize All You Want, But Don't Call It God!


Geezer
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It seems to me the biggest hurdle in any conversation about God is the word God itself. The word carries a monumental amount of baggage. Often just uttering the word God initiates images of an anthropomorphic life form with human emotions and unlimited supernatural powers.  This life form lives up there or out there somewhere but has supernatural powers that allows it to ease drop and record every action and thought that every single human being has throughout their life.

 

This supernatural life form both blesses and cures whoever and whenever it wants. And it often illogically blesses the most evil people on earth while apparently cursing the most faithful morally pure among us. This “deity” is indeed a perplexing enigma.

 

I have been watching a Robin build her nest outside my window. She is a marvelous engineer.  Carefully constructing a structure that will provide security for her soon to arrive babies. I admit that I am blown away by the marvels, simplicity, as well as the complexity of nature.  

 

DNA and evolution is way beyond my comprehension as are all the theories associated with quantum mechanics. Everything that encompasses life and creation simply blows my mind.

 

I am but a moderately educated person basically I am simple man that is easily impressed by all the wonders that makes our reality possible. I say all of that to say that it is beyond my comprehension to believe that creation and the life that came from it just spontaneously occurred.

 

Physicists have discovered the universe is a colossal nearly incomprehensibly complex mathematical equation and revealing its secrets is essentially just figuring out the math. So, where did this mathematical equation come from? Did it just spontaneously come into existence from nothing when it all began…..however it all begun. Where did DNA, the building blocks of life, come from?  

 

I realize some really super smart scientists are convinced it all came from nothing. From nothing came energy, mass, complexity, and simplicity?  And what the hell is at the bottom of a black hole and what the hell is a black hole anyway and where did it come from?

 

I’m not a pure rationalist and I don’t think my mind will ever accept that approach to life. Too many unanswered and unanswerable questions. Rationalist know what they know but there is a hell of a lot of stuff they don’t know too.

God doesn’t fit into my speculations because God has been too distorted, warped, and stigmatized to have any real meaning anymore.  Commonsense, if nothing else, tells me a major piece of the puzzle is still missing. Physicists apparently are convinced there is a missing component in their equations that when found will tie it all together.

Assuming this theoretical component actually exists will it answer all of our presently unanswered questions, or will it just create new questions?  Does the answer we seek even exist? I obviously don’t know, but in the mean time I comfort myself with the impossible to prove theory that there is more, but I have no idea what that more might be or consist of.

 

Instead of searching for theories that might be plausible I have put together thoughts and concepts in my mind that seem conceivably possible. Knowing that I’m not particularly smart I theorized that others might have come to conclusions similar to mine.

 

I’ve recently discovered others have indeed thought about this and this theory has a name. It’s called Panendeism aka process Deism, but even among those who might accept its theories its components are ambiguous at best. In its most basic form it is hypothesized that it is something akin to intelligent energy. Something along the order of DNA that continuously creates and evolves. This theoretical energy isn’t anything like a human created God in that it doesn’t require worship grant rewards nor does it punish moral offenders of human perceived truths. It simply creates and evolves. Some theorize it might somehow influence and interact with the life forms it creates.

 

Now, the even bigger question. If this intelligent energy exists where did it come from?  

 

 

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When I say I don't believe in god, I'm talking about the god of the bible, either OT or NT. Or any other supernatural being that supposedly has a concern for life on earth in the present reality, reality as we understand it. What other "god" or "gods" there are, I neither believe nor disbelieve. I, like you said

of yourself, do not have the intellectual ability to really understand modern science at any significant depth. I don't fret about it because I can't do anything about it. But sometimes it is fun to speculate.

 

But for the same reasons you described, I am an agnostic, not an atheist. I don't think I could ever be

smart enough to consider myself an atheist. I could not have that much self confidence. Thank you for

your honest self evaluation. bill

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"I realize some really super smart scientists are convinced it all came from nothing. From nothing came energy, mass, complexity, and simplicity?  And what the hell is at the bottom of a black hole and what the hell is a black hole anyway and where did it come from?"

 

Some are.. some aren't. The prevailing theory at the moment is that it has always existed... multiverses and all that. No 'beginning'.. no end. BAA is better with that stuff than I am... there's some good threads on the science and religion forum on these topics.

 

Black holes are collections of matter pulled in on themselves by gravity so immense that the laws of physics as we know them don't apply.

 

This is a good book for a background on the theory of black holes.. it's older and some of the info has changed, but not that much. I was able to grasp it and I only have grade 11 science.

http://pdfebooks.cluhost.info/download/black%20holes%20and%20warped%20spacetime.html

 

Hypotheses about 'intelligent' universal energy are just that.. hypotheses. I haven't yet seen any evidence that supports that - but if there is some I would be most interested!

 

I agree that the word 'god' is WAY too loaded.

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I have come to realize I need some form of spirituality in my life, but nothing that includes a supernatural element. I can't connect with mysticism. That just doesn't work for me. Deism comes in many forms. In fact there are no rules when it comes to Deism. It is a reason based form of spirituality. Panendeism appeals to me because it theorizes that the universe is a living organism that continues to endlessly create and evolve. In that sense it is immortal and omnipresent, etc.

 

Classic Deism doesn't appeal to me because the Creator theory is too close to traditional religion. Panendeism, on the other hand, sees the universe as a living organism and so do many scientist. The universe itself becomes a metaphor for God. This may just be another stage of my deconversion but it is one that resonates with me, at least right now. I can find a spiritual component in Panendeism but not a religious one because there is nothing to worship or pray to.

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Guest r3alchild

Do you remember startrek the original movie and v'ger (voyager) returning home to earth, it had become a entity of great power but it had the mind of a child. For a very long time before christianity I used to think, what if god is a child?

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There's another original Star Trek episode where the bridge crew are held hostage by a child god (advanced entity child) who plays them like puppets - but wasn't mature enough to realize he shouldn't treat sentient beings that way... for his own amusement. His parents finally found out and he was disciplined.

 

There's another one in TNG where Beverly Crusher 'dies' and is 'met' by an entity pretending to be her father who tries to get her to 'go into the light' (the whole near death thing) and she finally figures out it is not her father, or an angel, but an alien that feeds on the energy/personality leaving a body at death...

 

Gosh, I love Star Trek.

 

We don't know what might be the base of some of humanity's supernatural experiences... maybe we should be a little more skeptical.

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There's another original Star Trek episode where the bridge crew are held hostage by a child god (advanced entity child) who plays them like puppets - but wasn't mature enough to realize he shouldn't treat sentient beings that way... for his own amusement. His parents finally found out and he was disciplined.

 

 

There's another one in TNG where Beverly Crusher 'dies' and is 'met' by an entity pretending to be her father who tries to get her to 'go into the light' (the whole near death thing) and she finally figures out it is not her father, or an angel, but an alien that feeds on the energy/personality leaving a body at death...

 

 

 

Gosh, I love Star Trek.

 

We don't know what might be the base of some of humanity's supernatural experiences... maybe we should be a little more skeptical.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Squire_of_Gothos

 

 

wink.png

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  • 3 weeks later...

I have to say, this particular kind of ignosticism is exactly why, if I did have proof of a "higher power" of some kind... I'd still be an atheist. Worshipping something stronger than you - or even the "most powerful" - is like worshipping Blue Whales because they're bigger - and technically the "biggest" animal. Not even going into how our idea of "God" doesn't even translate between cultures. Compare "kami" from Shinto.

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  • Super Moderator

As long as there are unknowns in the universe and as long as there are complexities we just can't grasp, there will be gods of one description or another because we seem to need to have answers - even if we just make them up.

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Classic Deism doesn't appeal to me because the Creator theory is too close to traditional religion. Panendeism, on the other hand, sees the universe as a living organism and so do many scientist. The universe itself becomes a metaphor for God. This may just be another stage of my deconversion but it is one that resonates with me, at least right now. I can find a spiritual component in Panendeism but not a religious one because there is nothing to worship or pray to.

Naturalistic Panentheist (or maybe Panendeist?) here. I don't see the universe as a living thing in the sense of it being conscious about us or creating us or anything remotely like the old time gods. But we do know that this universe brings about consciousness, awareness, intelligence, creativity, will, life, and so on, because we are that way. Life and awareness is in integral part and/or potential in this universe just like rubber ducks, acorns, popsicles, and iPhones. It doesn't mean that the universe is also aware in itself, but... how can we know? We can't say what makes a glob of matter a life form or sentient. We only have this Earth to compare to, and it's not enough. So who knows. Maybe there are whole planets that are sentient. Maybe there are plasma energy lifeforms. We can all guess, but in the end, we do know that we exist (in some way), and that is amazing in itself. I worship reality.
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There's another original Star Trek episode where the bridge crew are held hostage by a child god (advanced entity child) who plays them like puppets - but wasn't mature enough to realize he shouldn't treat sentient beings that way... for his own amusement. His parents finally found out and he was disciplined.

 

There's another one in TNG where Beverly Crusher 'dies' and is 'met' by an entity pretending to be her father who tries to get her to 'go into the light' (the whole near death thing) and she finally figures out it is not her father, or an angel, but an alien that feeds on the energy/personality leaving a body at death...

 

Gosh, I love Star Trek.

 

We don't know what might be the base of some of humanity's supernatural experiences... maybe we should be a little more skeptical.

 

Not to go off topic, but...

 

Ravenstar scroll up. Look at the avatars. Your post is followed by a response from the evil Spock. Wow, huh?

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