Would you reconvert?

[All Gods Fail]

For me: miracles, miracles, miracles. I would want to see the sun stop moving in the sky, the resurrected dead roaming the streets and preaching the gospel, everyone walking on water and angels flitting about everywhere. And that's just for starters.

[aynalhub]

I think I can skip the clever formalities and get right to it: I left not christianity, or even religion, when I deconverted, but abandoned the idea that anything of the past or future, in other words, anything attainable by thought, is capable of touching truth. I think conciousness often makes us feel like we are little mice surfing on this big wave called physical reality, but in actuality, I think we are droplets of the wave itself, and thus incapable of seeing what, where, how or why we are in any capacity, because there is no difference between the one seeing, "me" and what is being seen "my experiences".

 

In other words, even a damascus-road-style experience would only be cause for further experimentation with thought, and I would not convert even then.

 

What would it take, then? Um...I would have to be capable of knowing for sure what is real and what is not, and I don't think that is part of being a human being. I want to share this Einstein anecdote to help explain what I mean.

 

Einstein wrote a letter to this man whose little child had just died, and who was mourning and begging for answers. He besought Einstein and begged him to explain how he could find comfort seeing the universe as mechanical and not as a place where god cradles us and receives us at death. This was Einstein's response:

 

"A human being is part of the whole world, called by us "Universe", a part limited in time and space. he experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separate from the rest--a kind of optical illusion of his consciousness. The striving to free oneself from this delusion is the one issue of true religion. Not to nourish the delusion but to try to overcome it is the way to reach the attainable measure of peace of mind"

 

wow.

[Max]

I'd need proof that the bible was factually correct - the world was created in 7 days, Sampson pushed a temple over, angels flying around... I've never understood how people could pledge their undying devotion to a story that, to tell the truth, most of them don't really buy anyhow.

[Guest The Walking Fox]

They would have to disprove Mohammed, first. At least he didn't come back from the dead. And to be honest, if I'm ever going back to Monotheism, I'm going for the whole Uno Theo, none of this trinity bullcrap.

[dogmatically_challenged]

I wouldn't reconvert even if I knew that the abrahamic god existed.... god would be able to read my mind and know how I felt about him and his religion. That alone is a ticket to hell

[willybilly30]

ongly if christians took over the goverment and made concentration camps or started burning witches at the stake.

uh oh bush is christian i hope it isnt going in that direction

[Mythra]

The chances of my reconverting to christianity are the same as converting to Islam or going back to chanting nam-myoho-renge-kyo.

 

Nah - scratch that. The odds are better for going back to chanting.

[bluewizard]

I'd do it for a lot of money. When I turn 18 I won't have to go to church anymore and what a day that will be though my Dad will be disappointed as he believes I'm going to Hell.

[RankStranger]

I'll reconvert when 1/3 of earth's water turns to blood. That would convince me.

[Dianka]

As confliceted as I feel about leaving the church, I would never go back. That's just the simple truth of it. If christianity was real, and all of the Bible was literal, I would have to pass because I'm not getting into Heaven anyway. So let me get this straight - I don't have the opportunity to be blissed out in Heaven for eternity AND I have to wear a head dress??? Fuck you Jesus. Not like you are capable of punishind me anymore for defiance, I am already damned for having a vulva.

[Sadie]

Getting excommunicated is easy though. Just admit that you've either participated in or funded an abortion. POOF! You're not Catholic anymore.

 

Jose,

 

Do they have a list? Do they keep track, or is it on the honor system? What if you move to another part of the country or world, would they know you were excommunicated? Say for some reason, you wanted to go to church and take communion, if they don't know you were excommunicated could you do it or would they find out?

 

What do they do to excommunicate you? Do you get a "Dear Jose" letter? Do they just say, dude, YOUR EXCOMMUNICATED!?

 

Just wondering.

 

Taph

 

I actually got a letter from some bishop in Rome stating that my previous sacraments (baptism, communion, confirmation) were invalidated and that the Roman Catholic Church was no longer a route for salvation for me pending a full confession to an archbishop and the intercession of said bishop on my behalf to the Holy See. According to the official Catechism of the Catholic Church, anyone who participates in an abortion is excommunicae latæ setentia or "excommunicated upon commission" of the sin. By going to confession, I just sealed the deal and made it official.

 

I'd assume there's a list somewhere, but I don't know for sure.

 

Basically, I could go where they didn't know me and receive communion, etc, but by the nature of my "sin," any sacraments I participate in are additional sins and considered heretical and blasphemous and would "compound the severity of my already heinous disregard for the teachings of Jesus Christ."

 

Blah, blah, blah... yada, yada, yada...

 

It's still the best $300 I ever spent. I wasn't exactly ready to be a dad at that time.

 

I'm still not, actually.

 

Sorry but I think Catholicism is more warped than Christianity.

[♦ ficino ♦]

 

 

Sorry but I think Catholicism is more warped than Christianity.

 

Hi, Sadie. Catholicism is a form of Christianity - the biggest one, in fact, and a strong case can be made that it retains the fullness of early Christianity better than any of the other branches. Christ's real presence in the eucharist, for example, goes back to the beginning of the christian church and is more clearly taught in the NT than other interpretations. The bible itself comes from it. many Catholics have deep faith in Christ as their savior. I'm not a Catholic anymore, but I disagree with the idea that RC is not Christian. To Catholics in fact such statements are as offensive as the reverse would be to a Protestant.

[Amethyst]

Einstein wrote a letter to this man whose little child had just died, and who was mourning and begging for answers. He besought Einstein and begged him to explain how he could find comfort seeing the universe as mechanical and not as a place where god cradles us and receives us at death. This was Einstein's response:

 

"A human being is part of the whole world, called by us "Universe", a part limited in time and space. he experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separate from the rest--a kind of optical illusion of his consciousness. The striving to free oneself from this delusion is the one issue of true religion. Not to nourish the delusion but to try to overcome it is the way to reach the attainable measure of peace of mind"

 

That is very interesting, actually. I didn't know Einstein was that philosophical.

[Sofia]

 

 

Sorry but I think Catholicism is more warped than Christianity.

 

Hi, Sadie. Catholicism is a form of Christianity - the biggest one, in fact, and a strong case can be made that it retains the fullness of early Christianity better than any of the other branches. Christ's real presence in the eucharist, for example, goes back to the beginning of the christian church and is more clearly taught in the NT than other interpretations. The bible itself comes from it. many Catholics have deep faith in Christ as their savior. I'm not a Catholic anymore, but I disagree with the idea that RC is not Christian. To Catholics in fact such statements are as offensive as the reverse would be to a Protestant.

 

 

I would agree with that. Catholicism has a bit of a problem with idols from the fundamentalist viewpoint but the RCC believes that many other denominations, (Baptist, etc) lack reverence. All are under the umbrella of Christianity.

 

 

Sofi

[thomas]

How about you?

 

I could never reconvert to the same brand of Christianity that I have left. The belief system that I once subcribed to was and is retarded, period. There have been emotions trying to pull me back, but I will never again sacrifice intellectual honesty for my emotions.

 

So the only way I ever could be able once again to call myself a Christian, would be, if I meet a radically different form of Christainity with a totally different content. It would have to be a Christianity where the god doesn't have to kill his son in order to be able to accept humans, it would have to be a christianity that makes life better for humans, instead of terrorising them with destructive ideas about sin and hell.

[Gnosis of Disbelief]

So the only way I ever could be able once again to call myself a Christian, would be, if I meet a radically different form of Christainity with a totally different content. It would have to be a Christianity where the god doesn't have to kill his son in order to be able to accept humans, it would have to be a christianity that makes life better for humans, instead of terrorising them with destructive ideas about sin and hell.

 

 

Like the Gnostics? Oh, that's right, the christians persecuted the

Gnostics to death. Never mind....

[♦ ficino ♦]

 

 

Life may be hard sometimes without an imaginary friend...but it's much much harder with imaginary enemies.

 

Great "bon mot" Zoe. I'm gonna quote you on this from now on!

Happy new year, ficino

 

ps it's snowing right now, yay!

[SkepticOfBible]

Sorry but I think Catholicism is more warped than Christianity.

Hi, Sadie. Catholicism is a form of Christianity - the biggest one, in fact, and a strong case can be made that it retains the fullness of early Christianity better than any of the other branches. Christ's real presence in the eucharist, for example, goes back to the beginning of the christian church and is more clearly taught in the NT than other interpretations. The bible itself comes from it. many Catholics have deep faith in Christ as their savior.

 

And just in case Sadie says that Blood drinking thing was supposed to be metaphorical. Here is something from the catholic website

 

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05573a.htm

 

The Real Presence Of Christ In The Eucharist:

 

Excerpts from the Catholic Encyclopedia:

...Consequently, eating and drinking are to be understood of the actual partaking of Christ in person, hence literally. This interpretation agrees perfectly with the conduct of the hearers and the attitude of Christ regarding their doubts and objections. Again, the murmuring of the Jews is the clearest evidence that they had understood the preceding words of Jesus literally (John 6:53). Yet far from repudiating this construction as a gross misunderstanding, Christ repeated them in a most solemn manner, in John (6:54 sqq.). In consequence, many of His Disciples were scandalized and said: "This saying is hard, and who can hear it?" (John 6:61); but instead of retracting what He had said, Christ rather reproached them for their want of faith, by alluding to His sublimer origin

and His future Ascension into heaven. And without further ado He allowed these Disciples to go their way (John 6:62 sqq.). Finally He turned to His twelve Apostles with the question: "Will you also go away? ...The Church's Magna Charta, however, are the words of Institution, "This is my body — this is my blood", whose literal meaning she has uninterruptedly adhered to from the earliest times. The Real Presence is evinced, positively, by showing the necessity of the literal sense of these words, and negatively, by refuting the figurative interpretations....Christ established the New Testament in His Blood, just as the Old Testament had been established in the typical blood of animals (cf. Exodus 24:8; Hebrews 9:11 sqq.). With the true instinct of justice, jurists prescribe that in all debatable points the words of a will must be taken in their natural, literal sense; for they are led by the correct conviction, that every testator of sound mind, in drawing up his last will and testament, is deeply concerned to have it done in language at once clear and unencumbered by meaningless metaphors.

 

Even St Paul felt that it was supposed to be taken literally

 

From the Catholic Encyclopedia:

...Moreover, we must not omit the important circumstance, that one of the four narrators has interpreted his own account literally. This is St. Paul (1 Corinthians 11:27 sq.), who, in the most vigorous language, brands the unworthy recipient as "guilty of body and of the blood of the Lord". There can be no question of a grievous offense against Christ Himself unless we suppose that the true Body and the true Blood of Christ are really present in the Eucharist.

 

So next time you meet a catholic don't forget to tell him/her that transubstantiation is false

 

From the Merriam-Webster dictionary:

TRANSUBSTANTIATION-

the miraculous change by which according to Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox dogma the eucharistic elements at their consecration become the body and blood of Christ while keeping only the appearances of bread and wine

 

I

'm not a Catholic anymore, but I disagree with the idea that RC is not Christian. To Catholics in fact such statements are as offensive as the reverse would be to a Protestant.

 

I agree, but I guess that sort of thinking is the result of propaganda.

 

Don't forget Sadie, the catholic church gave you your bible. It was the anti semitic Martin Luther, who arbitarily decided that some books in the bible should not belong there. if he had his way, he would have thrown out book of James, Hebrew and Revelation.

 

So there you go, Sadie you are following the WRONG bible.

[thomas]

 

Christianity was never emotionally appealing to me to begin with. It was just how I was raised...from birth. Sometimes it takes awhile to break away from something on your own when you have absolutely not outside influences or much access to information.

 

I believed it because my family taught it to me...and I was surrounded constantly by other fundamentalist christians and had it all drilled into my head, and had a fear response spiritually "beat into me" It was the only thing I knew. But I NEVER wanted it to be true.

 

Sure, I wanted there to be SOMETHING. I didn't want to die and there be NOTHING. But CHRISTIANITY specificially? I never wanted it emotionally. I never felt this: "Happiness in Jesus" bullshit.

 

 

I can actually relate to this. Christainity was never fully appealing to me, it was a mixed package with good and bad things. In my case, deconversion was both a loss and a relief. I guess it was like having an evil step mom that died.

[Checkmate]

Sorry but I think Catholicism is more warped than Christianity.

 

Hi, Sadie. Catholicism is a form of Christianity - the biggest one, in fact, and a strong case can be made that it retains the fullness of early Christianity better than any of the other branches. Christ's real presence in the eucharist, for example, goes back to the beginning of the christian church and is more clearly taught in the NT than other interpretations. The bible itself comes from it. many Catholics have deep faith in Christ as their savior. I'm not a Catholic anymore, but I disagree with the idea that RC is not Christian. To Catholics in fact such statements are as offensive as the reverse would be to a Protestant.

I always get a giggle when Protestants especially claim that Catholics are NOT Christians. How can that be? Particularly when the RCC came FIRST! It is the Protestant Apple that has fallen FROM the Catholic Tree. This is akin to a child born in New York City telling his Los Angeles born parents that THEY are not American! If Catholics are a "cult", then so are ALL Christians.

 

Who was responsible for maintaining the scriptures, and maintaining the faith, and developing the rituals that the CHURCH uses to this day? The RCC. While the other denominations have deviated and rejected most Catholic-specific dogma (Purgatory, Mariolatry, the confessional, indulgences), they have managed to keep the remainder. Titles, rituals (baptism, PEDO-baptism, communion, prayers, worship), church assemblies, tithing, the symbol of the cross/crucifix and essential dogmas (Nicene/Apostles Creeds). All courtesy of the RCC, and kept by all "Christians."

 

If the RCC is NOT "Christian", then maybe the Protestants, Baptists and Presbyterians need to go all the way and reject EVERYTHING the RCC has preserved and practiced.

[Purple]

First of all there would have to be A Christianity. NO denominations, but ONE faith and religion where they ALL agree. All people in said church, or at least a large majority would have to be demonstratively more moral, loving and compassionate then non-christians. Then God, Jesus and te Holy Spirit all at the same time would ahve to come to me personally and explain how they can be three in one, or explain that the trinity is bunk, and every member of the Christian church would agree with them, or him. God himself would have to appear to both large groups of people, and individuals and answer all questions with love and patciencence. I am unwilling to believe a mystery unless not believeing it only means I am mistaken. If disbelief in something means I and others will be torutred forever then it should not be a mystery, but it should be made clear.

I guess bottum line clarity is the issue for me, at least today. There really is nothing a Christian could say to me to change my mind, it would take God and a global change in the practices of the Christian church.

[Mad Ethel Rakem]

I would re-convert if Jesus showed up on my doorstep and handed me a blueberry muffin that wasn't all mushy on the top. Oh yeah, it's all about the muffins.

[lkcollins]

What would cause me to reconvert? If I saw a amputee's arm or leg grow back, that would impress me somewhat. Yep that would do.

[Lycorth]

I always get a giggle when Protestants especially claim that Catholics are NOT Christians. How can that be? Particularly when the RCC came FIRST! It is the Protestant Apple that has fallen FROM the Catholic Tree. This is akin to a child born in New York City telling his Los Angeles born parents that THEY are not American! If Catholics are a "cult", then so are ALL Christians.

 

Who was responsible for maintaining the scriptures, and maintaining the faith, and developing the rituals that the CHURCH uses to this day? The RCC. While the other denominations have deviated and rejected most Catholic-specific dogma (Purgatory, Mariolatry, the confessional, indulgences), they have managed to keep the remainder. Titles, rituals (baptism, PEDO-baptism, communion, prayers, worship), church assemblies, tithing, the symbol of the cross/crucifix and essential dogmas (Nicene/Apostles Creeds). All courtesy of the RCC, and kept by all "Christians."

 

If the RCC is NOT "Christian", then maybe the Protestants, Baptists and Presbyterians need to go all the way and reject EVERYTHING the RCC has preserved and practiced.

 

I have to agree, especially being an ex-catholic. I did the protestant fundie thing for awhile, but in the end, logical study of xianity led me back to the RCC. Xianity, for me, sank or swam hand-in-hand with catholicism - and when I finally realized RCC dogmas are based on the same lunacy as the Bible itself, I rejected Xianity overall, and didn't search for yet another Xian cult to fit my needs.

[laura]

I believe I have one advantage over a lot of Ex-C's although I'm sure I'm not the only one with this advantage.

 

Christianity was never emotionally appealing to me to begin with. It was just how I was raised...from birth. Sometimes it takes awhile to break away from something on your own when you have absolutely not outside influences or much access to information.

 

I believed it because my family taught it to me...and I was surrounded constantly by other fundamentalist christians and had it all drilled into my head, and had a fear response spiritually "beat into me" It was the only thing I knew. But I NEVER wanted it to be true.

 

Sure, I wanted there to be SOMETHING. I didn't want to die and there be NOTHING. But CHRISTIANITY specificially? I never wanted it emotionally. I never felt this: "Happiness in Jesus" bullshit.

 

Oh sure, I went to a few "good" church services...which were fun/exciting because I didn't have to hear preaching. I had panic attacks and prayed to cope with them because it was drilled so deeply into my brain that it was demons...but once I saw the actual truth...

 

 

 

Life may be hard sometimes without an imaginary friend...but it's much much harder with imaginary enemies. And the Christian package doesn't offer you just the warm fuzzies, which once you are actually "In" are in short supply. They also offer imaginary enemies. Real life is hard enough.

I have the same advantage. Like you, I grew up in Christianity, particulary Christian schools even though my family isn't particulary Christian. My mother just saw it as a safe place for her emotionally weak and unstable child (and there is truth to that). Still, the Christian schooling only worsened my emotional state instead of strengthening it. I'm more unstable today than I would have been without the brainwashing. I will never know what I could have been without all that.

I never wanted Christianity. The thought that there might not be anything after death never bothered me. I never felt any need for divine love and purpose, but those things are stuck in my head now. Yeah, sure there were brief moments when the religion made me "happy", but that was only when I believed the lies to make that happiness neccessary.

When I decided to forfeight my salvation that night driving to walmart (walmart is god in Arkansas), I wasn't sad at all, more like afraid of eternall punishment as I had always been. I'm not afraid any more, and I do get depressed from time to time, but that's just my nature and personality. In short, I'm too far much better off without Christianity than with it. I have more logical, philosophical, and emotional reasons against it than for it or any other religion, and so I don't think I will ever go back. Probably not even proof beyond doubt (if that even exists) would lure me back. Even if I did, I would quickly remember the reasons I left, and would just leave again.