Gamecock1973 Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 I've heard Christians throw around the term, "unconditional love," my whole life. Since deconverting, it REALLY annoys me when I hear it, because I'm not sure if there is a much bigger bullshit concept in Christianity than this. Certainly the "love of god" is not unconditional. It's COMPLETELY conditional on you accepting him, putting your faith in him, blah blah blah...otherwise you get separated from his love for all eternity and get to enjoy perpertual torment! Christians are generally the most hypocritical people I've known when it comes to "unconditional love." No need to expound further to this audience. My real question...Is there such a thing as unconditional love at all? Does anyone really love without expecting anything in return? Are there any Biblical evidence/examples of unconditional love? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest r3alchild Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 You just blew me away, christianity is not unconditional love, do the words unconditional love exist in the bible? If you can find those words or the idea of it then this god of the jews and then godnapped by the christians is more of a monster than I once thought, since love unconditionaly means you don't have to do anything for it and any christian who says you have to do something for it is a liar. Now as to your question, I think unconditional love is possible for humans even animals but its not perfect, but in my search for god and inlightenment I believe that the nature of spirituality is unconditional in itself. What you said here is the untwisting of the mess christians have made and in my view proof that christians love god is demented. You took a fucking sledge hammer and demolished the whole of love gods wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Margee Posted April 16, 2013 Moderator Share Posted April 16, 2013 The biblical example of uncondiotional love is supposed to be jesus dying an innocent man - a shameful death on the cross, to take upon him, all our sins. I have come to the conclusion that there is no thing such as unconditional love. Love is a game of respect and trust. There are rules in every game. I treat you this way and you treat me that way. I give you this and you give me that. If the rules get broken too many times, the 'game' normally ends. I believe you can even lose love for your children if they mistreat you too many times. I have. I used to be much more patient with the 'game' when I was younger, but I'm not anymore. There's been too much heartbreak for me........I'm old and bitter now!!Lol 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galien Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 I have always refused to play the game. I make my own rules. I think there is unconditional love but it is rare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest r3alchild Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 The biblical example of uncondiotional love is supposed to be jesus dying an innocent man - a shameful death on the cross, to take upon him, all our sins. I have come to the conclusion that there is no thing such as unconditional love. Love is a game of respect and trust. There are rules in every game. I treat you this way and you treat me that way. I give you this and you give me that. If the rules get broken too many times, the 'game' normally ends. I believe you can even lose love for your children if they mistreat you too many times. I have. I used to be much more patient with the 'game' when I was younger, but I'm not anymore. There's been too much heartbreak for me........I'm old and bitter now!!Lol Say that to lassie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest r3alchild Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 I have always refused to play the game. I make my own rules. I think there is unconditional love but it is rare.I believe as animals its in our nature, but it gets lost in translation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burny Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 Love always has a reason. Nothing and no-one loves unconditionally. Even Lassie loved so that she could be fed and cared for by humans... God's love can't be unconditional because otherwise why would there be punishment for rejecting him? That's a pretty damn big condition actually. Love me or suffer forever. But know that I love you unconditionally. But only if you love me back. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QualifiedCommenter Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 Unconditional love absolutely does not exist. It's perpetuated constantly in popular media (Especially the stuff meant for teens and pre-teens) but it is just not real. Love is always conditional, even if the conditions aren't very strict. There cannot possibly be no conditions whatsoever. No matter how much you love someone, imagine if they start trying to kill you every time they see you, cuss at you, lie about you to everyone and constantly try to ruin your life and everything you are. After long enough, you would stop loving that person. Period. End of story. Sure, maybe they could one day get it back if you're just that awesome of a person, but that still makes it conditional. Unconditional love can make for good fiction or fairy tales, but it is just not real. In the case of God, if his "love", as Christians call it, was unconditional, he never would have needed to make a giant flood, tell his people to commit more genocides than can me counted, kill newborn babies just to make a point, kill a man for touching the ark of the covenant in order to stop it from falling over or kill a man for picking up a stick on the wrong day. Anyone who can look those instances square in the eye and then still believe that God loves all of these people unconditionally is delusional. I believe that NonStampCollector made a video about that a few years ago. When it comes to God, his love is very, very much conditional. God's love is extremely conditional, and only a very, very, very small amount of people ever to exist would ever get to truly experience it. Since the vast majority of people would go to Hell if the Bible were to be believed, most people would not get to be in God's love. They would need to be the right kind of person born in the right place at the right time. If those are the only people God allows into Heaven, then his love is astoundingly conditional. I'm sure someone could have more unconditional love towards an animal than the God depicted in the Bible has had towards his supposed best creation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galien Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 I wonder why men are less likely to believe in unconditional love than women. Perhaps it is because they don't carry a child inside them for nine months, then have to nurture it and care for it for the next however many years. If it did not exist there would be a lot more dead kids out there, and likely some dead husbands too. Please stop tarring everyone with the same brush. If you are incapable of unconditional love then that is YOU, it isnt everyone. Never ceases to amaze me how often people make proclamations based on what they can or cannot do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamecock1973 Posted April 16, 2013 Author Share Posted April 16, 2013 Galien, I agree with you. Really the best example I can think of is a love of a mother for her child and how at numerous times there are examples of a mother sacrificing herself for her children. At the same time, choosing to have a baby and be a mother is not always the altruistic thing it is painted as either. I know far too many people who have children to get a subconscious personal kickback (i.e. to feel needed and loved by someone, to live out their unfulfilled dreams through their children, etc.). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 Men show unconditional love by dragging an injured person they dont really like off the battlefield and get them patched up and sent home. Men jump on grenades to save people around them. Men show unconditional love by making nursing home, hospice and funeral preparations for their terminally ill parents though they would rather not have to deal with it. Men show unconditional love by jumping out of a truck and running into a burning building to save strangers they don't even know. Men show unconditional love by chasing criminals who are shooting at them in order to protect the public. A generally thankless public. Men, they just suck. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overcame Faith Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 I can imagine the concept of a deity with unconditional love. This deity would be the creator but would expect absolutely nothing from its creation - not worship, not praying to it, not attending services and singing to it, not living one's life in accordance with any set of rules, no punishment in store and, if there is a reward, it is only because each person is part of this deity's creation. It wouldn't matter to this creator deity whether the people stole, robbed, murdered, raped, lied, or helped feed the world's starving children. Nothing would matter but the fact that this deity created each person. I think unconditional love between two or more people would require much the same thing. No expectations of any nature whatsoever, including being loved back. Not likely to happen but at least very, very remotely possible. Come to think of it, I'm not so sure that unconditional love, if it exists, is so great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galien Posted April 17, 2013 Share Posted April 17, 2013 Men show unconditional love by dragging an injured person they dont really like off the battlefield and get them patched up and sent home. Men jump on grenades to save people around them. Men show unconditional love by making nursing home, hospice and funeral preparations for their terminally ill parents though they would rather not have to deal with it. Men show unconditional love by jumping out of a truck and running into a burning building to save strangers they don't even know. Men show unconditional love by chasing criminals who are shooting at them in order to protect the public. A generally thankless public. Men, they just suck. :-) Well I am actually not the one who said they weren't capable of it.....but they seem more likely than women to say there is no such thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galien Posted April 17, 2013 Share Posted April 17, 2013 I think unconditional love between two or more people would require much the same thing. No expectations of any nature whatsoever, including being loved back. Not likely to happen but at least very, very remotely possible. Come to think of it, I'm not so sure that unconditional love, if it exists, is so great. No it isn't. Nice in theory but in practice,in a world that does not espouse it, it is a recipe for being constantly fucked over. If you were taught both by adults and your own reading of the bible when you were a child that this is how you really love, then this is what you do. What they fail to tell you is how much misery it will cause you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boftx Posted April 17, 2013 Share Posted April 17, 2013 To some extent unconditional love might be similar to how I feel about my kids. Just because I love them it doesn't mean I have to like them, and there is by no means any guarantee they like me. On the other hand, I'd be willing to wager that my dogs are a good examples of unconditional love going both ways between them and me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest r3alchild Posted April 17, 2013 Share Posted April 17, 2013 To some extent unconditional love might be similar to how I feel about my kids. Just because I love them it doesn't mean I have to like them, and there is by no means any guarantee they like me. On the other hand, I'd be willing to wager that my dogs are a good examples of unconditional love going both ways between them and me. Yes, yes and yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creative Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 I've heard Christians throw around the term, "unconditional love," my whole life. Since deconverting, it REALLY annoys me when I hear it, because I'm not sure if there is a much bigger bullshit concept in Christianity than this. Certainly the "love of god" is not unconditional. It's COMPLETELY conditional on you accepting him, putting your faith in him, blah blah blah...otherwise you get separated from his love for all eternity and get to enjoy perpertual torment! Christians are generally the most hypocritical people I've known when it comes to "unconditional love." No need to expound further to this audience. My real question...Is there such a thing as unconditional love at all? Does anyone really love without expecting anything in return? Are there any Biblical evidence/examples of unconditional love? If they would conditionally love god they would stop loving him after ready 5 pages in the bible and realizing what an asshole he realy is. As to your realy question, No! Apart from it physically be completely impossible there is always a reason behind love if this reason would faint away or be removed then so will the love, making it conditional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creative Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 To some extent unconditional love might be similar to how I feel about my kids. Just because I love them it doesn't mean I have to like them, and there is by no means any guarantee they like me. On the other hand, I'd be willing to wager that my dogs are a good examples of unconditional love going both ways between them and me. I understand you point. I do. You will always love your children because they are your children. And its in our nature to care and protect our offspring. However you could say that we have been conditioned to do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boftx Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 I would be willing to grant that conditioning takes place as part of the child-rearing process. But I think there is a natural desire to love and protect children to begin with. If there wasn't, few of the little brats would ever live past the age of two. On a side-note, they called them the "terrible twos" because there is no name bad enough for the threes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galien Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 To some extent unconditional love might be similar to how I feel about my kids. Just because I love them it doesn't mean I have to like them, and there is by no means any guarantee they like me. On the other hand, I'd be willing to wager that my dogs are a good examples of unconditional love going both ways between them and me. I understand you point. I do. You will always love your children because they are your children. And its in our nature to care and protect our offspring. However you could say that we have been conditioned to do this. Really? Because my 23 year old has managed to kill anything I felt for her. Being related to a person is no guarantee you will always love them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest r3alchild Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 To some extent unconditional love might be similar to how I feel about my kids. Just because I love them it doesn't mean I have to like them, and there is by no means any guarantee they like me. On the other hand, I'd be willing to wager that my dogs are a good examples of unconditional love going both ways between them and me. I understand you point. I do. You will always love your children because they are your children. And its in our nature to care and protect our offspring. However you could say that we have been conditioned to do this.Really? Because my 23 year old has managed to kill anything I felt for her. Being related to a person is no guarantee you will always love them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipVanWinkle Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 I agree that an offspring can destroy parental love. But it has to really be worked at. Galien: I hope things change with your 23 year old. I had a daughter who was as hateful as one could be. But when she got in her late twenties she changed for the better. I hope that happens with your 23 year old. bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boftx Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Galien, I don't know if she is an only child or one of several. From my experience I can say that things change as they get older. I have three grown children (two boys and a girl, the youngest), all 30+ now, all married with children of their own. The late teens to early 20s for each were trying times between us. I won't say everything is okay now, but I can say that they have an expanded viewpoint now that they have a bit more experience behind them, some of which they know I have also gone through. I also have two more daughters still at home, ages 14 and 12, and I won't be surprised at all if the same thing happens again. It was pretty much the same with my mom and me, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galien Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 boftx, on 24 Apr 2013 - 09:28 AM, said: Galien, I don't know if she is an only child or one of several. From my experience I can say that things change as they get older. I have three grown children (two boys and a girl, the youngest), all 30+ now, all married with children of their own. The late teens to early 20s for each were trying times between us. I won't say everything is okay now, but I can say that they have an expanded viewpoint now that they have a bit more experience behind them, some of which they know I have also gone through. I also have two more daughters still at home, ages 14 and 12, and I won't be surprised at all if the same thing happens again. It was pretty much the same with my mom and me, too. Its just so bloody exhausting. The eldest couldn't keep her legs together as a young teenager and that was a challenge particularly because I was a fundy xian at the time. She was my feral sisters kid and was acting just like my sis so I thought I was a terrible parent. At the same time my husband left. Yay. This younger one and I have been very close but she has turned into a vicious little bitch ever since she went to college. She was such a lovely sweet little girl. I am feisty but not deliberately spiteful as she has become. At the moment it is good we are estranged because last time she unleashed a mouthful on me my other daughter had to get between us. Not good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boftx Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 I have a theory. A child's brain basically turns off, or at least goes into a power-save mode, when they are about 12 years old and doesn't begin to fully function again until about age 25, give or take a few years. However, there is a temporary "reset" switch that can be effective for short periods of time that can be accessed with a boot up their butt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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