Questions For Christians

[seeker001]

Clay, you claim that god intervenes in the lives of individuals. How did your God intervene in your life? 

[Deva]

OC said:

 

 

People are generally assholes. You will find them at work, at the grocery store, at school, on the street corner.

 

 

Hey OC, would you include yourself in that description?

[Deva]

 

A person does not need to proselytize to "babble bullshit". When you talk about the nordic pantheon why is it not "babbling bullshit"?

Dude, it's bullshit as soon as I insist it's truth without having any objective evidence supporting my claim.

 

Your claims lack evidence. So do mine (when I actually make them).

You insist your claims are true. I don't.

Therefore you babble bullshit. I discuss things that I know many others will disagree with.

 

That be clear even for brain as small as jebus cultist, or still too hard to get, hmmm?

 

(Man this is good, even hilarious... I rarely have the chance nowadays to mock someone who so obviously begs for it... )

 

 

Thuri, its useless to get these fine distinctions across to someone like OC. This is just so ludicrous!

[Guest r3alchild]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jesus *said to him, "Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed." (Joh 20:29)

I did believe, but mu faith was destroyed by the actions of Christians, some really screwed up things in the old testament and a couple other issues. Clay, trust me, if Jesus was to pop up in front of me and say I am real and then disappear, that would send me back to believing.

What happened? Do you have a testimony on this site by chance?

Old testament, some king sacrifices his daughter, Abe being asked to sacrifice Isaac (if God knows our true heart why would ask someone to sacrifice his own son?), too much science showing at least an old earth, macro evolution, cultures in the middle of nowhere who never heard of Christ, towel of babel, but yet the langauges are totally different (meaning romance lanquages are different from Asian one which are different from native American ones etc), the vast majority of xians I know being total assholes etc

Everyone one of those items you listed have also given me pause for thought. Some I've found very clear answers for, and others I simply don't know the answer too. No one knows all the answers no matter where they fall in the continuum of belief. It would be ridiculous for me to reject Christ because I don't know all the answers.

 

People are generally assholes. You will find them at work, at the grocery store, at school, on the street corner.

 

What if some were unfaithful? Does their faithlessness nullify the faithfulness of God? By no means! Let God be true though every one were a liar, ..."

(Rom 3:3-4)

 

Do you believe in the spiritual world?

finding answers to difficult scriptures can be worked out with the bible and other resources, but they will allways end up being theoretical by nature. (not a evidence based theory) So really the only way you can prove you have answers to biblical inconsistencies and difficulties, is for god to show up and tell you if your right.

If you are referring to empirical evidence than I agree, but don't fall into the trap of believing that the only valid evidence is empirical. It is simply not true. The statement, "empirical evidence is the only valid form of evidence" is self refuting. You can't empirically demonstrate the truth of this statement.

Subjective evidence is not so trust worthy, but empirical based evidence is. Like the evidence that shows us how old the universe or the earth is, that evidence can also be used to prove the bible to be unreliable in those matters.

 

Once you start seeing the bible as unreliable in matters like that, you natrually start to question, how far reaching does this go. Ask yourself, is the universe more than 6000 years old? Then go from there.

[antix]

Saddam was evil?    The Bible says everyone is evil?      Mao was evil, we did not invade china?     Did you know Iraq under saddam was the most progressive country in the mid east outside Israel?

[antix]

 

yes, I believe there is something out there in a spiritual realm,

Can you please tell me why you believe this?

 

Have known way too many people who have had odd experiences, especially people from asia.   Now can you tell me this: you admitted assholes are everywhere, why has God not changed their hearts? 

[OrdinaryClay]

 

A person does not need to proselytize to "babble bullshit". When you talk about the nordic pantheon why is it not "babbling bullshit"?

Dude, it's bullshit as soon as I insist it's truth without having any objective evidence supporting my claim.

Based on your reasoning the statement you just made is "babbling bullshit" because you have no objective evidence for its veracity.

 

Why do you believe and base your life on "babbling bullshit"?

[OrdinaryClay]

Clay, you claim that god intervenes in the lives of individuals. How did your God intervene in your life? 

I'll answer that question, but did you not just recently say personal revelation was important and meaningful?

[OrdinaryClay]

 

OC said:

 

 

People are generally assholes. You will find them at work, at the grocery store, at school, on the street corner.

 

 

Hey OC, would you include yourself in that description?

 

I'm a sinner so I'm sure someone considers me an asshole.

 

for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, (Rom 3:23)

 

[◊ crazyguy123 ◊]

 

 

OC said:

 

 

People are generally assholes. You will find them at work, at the grocery store, at school, on the street corner.

 

 

Hey OC, would you include yourself in that description?

 

I'm a sinner so I'm sure someone considers me an asshole.

 

for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, (Rom 3:23)

 

 

 

Ah, but isn't your god supposed to transform you into a new and better person? It does not appear as though he did a good job...

[sdelsolray]

Another "me, me, me" thread.  How surprising.

[seeker001]

 

Clay, you claim that god intervenes in the lives of individuals. How did your God intervene in your life? 

I'll answer that question, but did you not just recently say personal revelation was important and meaningful?

 

Only to the individual, but it can not be used as subjective evidence. Whatever revelation was given to you is yours alone, not mine. I asked only out of curiosity, I mean no harm.

 

You have a lot of guts to keep coming back here and arguing with people who have a completely different reference frame than you.

[OrdinaryClay]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jesus *said to him, "Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed." (Joh 20:29)

I did believe, but mu faith was destroyed by the actions of Christians, some really screwed up things in the old testament and a couple other issues. Clay, trust me, if Jesus was to pop up in front of me and say I am real and then disappear, that would send me back to believing.

What happened? Do you have a testimony on this site by chance?

Old testament, some king sacrifices his daughter, Abe being asked to sacrifice Isaac (if God knows our true heart why would ask someone to sacrifice his own son?), too much science showing at least an old earth, macro evolution, cultures in the middle of nowhere who never heard of Christ, towel of babel, but yet the langauges are totally different (meaning romance lanquages are different from Asian one which are different from native American ones etc), the vast majority of xians I know being total assholes etc

Everyone one of those items you listed have also given me pause for thought. Some I've found very clear answers for, and others I simply don't know the answer too. No one knows all the answers no matter where they fall in the continuum of belief. It would be ridiculous for me to reject Christ because I don't know all the answers.

 

People are generally assholes. You will find them at work, at the grocery store, at school, on the street corner.

 

What if some were unfaithful? Does their faithlessness nullify the faithfulness of God? By no means! Let God be true though every one were a liar, ..."

(Rom 3:3-4)

 

Do you believe in the spiritual world?

finding answers to difficult scriptures can be worked out with the bible and other resources, but they will allways end up being theoretical by nature. (not a evidence based theory) So really the only way you can prove you have answers to biblical inconsistencies and difficulties, is for god to show up and tell you if your right.

If you are referring to empirical evidence than I agree, but don't fall into the trap of believing that the only valid evidence is empirical. It is simply not true. The statement, "empirical evidence is the only valid form of evidence" is self refuting. You can't empirically demonstrate the truth of this statement.

Subjective evidence is not so trust worthy, but empirical based evidence is. Like the evidence that shows us how old the universe or the earth is, that evidence can also be used to prove the bible to be unreliable in those matters.

 

Once you start seeing the bible as unreliable in matters like that, you natrually start to question, how far reaching does this go. Ask yourself, is the universe more than 6000 years old? Then go from there.

 

I don't know exactly what subjective evidence is. Take the time to understand what evidence is. A legal source would be good.

 

The universe is 13.5 byrs old. I'm an old earth Christian. The Bible does not teach the earth is 6000 yrs old. People have read this into the Bible. Now, I don't fault someone for believing the earth is 6000 years old. It is not bad to believe such a thing, but I don't hinge my faith on that.

 

If you are honestly interested listen to William Lane Craig's Defenders Pod-Casts. They are very good in this area. http://www.reasonablefaith.org/defenders-2-podcast

 

Listen to the sections on Creation for a good discussion of why it is reasonable for a Bible following Christian to believe the earth is old.

[raoul]

In one note you ask me to explain pantheism's appeal over yours? Naw, I think I'll take a cue from you and ignore your query since, as I and others have already wrote - you aren't here to learn anything. You're only hear to stir up the hornet's nest so to speak. If you can pick and choose what you want to answer, I and the rest of the gang can do likewise.

 

and

 

Your rambling is revealing. I never said anything about america. Personally, I oppose the patriot act. Perhaps your political obsessions are clouding your judgment.

 

My rambling? Oh, you must be referring to the facts I cited regarding my Chinese-American friends who call what you posit - bull shit. I know how reality based facts get in the way of your kneeling at the crotch of your imaginary god and servicing it BUT they're still facts.
 

Regarding China. You should look into the facts first. There is a reason immigration/emigration numbers are what they are. There is a reason Chinese immigrants suffer inhumane conditions to leave.

 

And your source for making this claim? The bible doesn't count. LOL Actually I went around searching for some facts and only found one which said that 1/2 of the CHINESE MILLIONARES want to leave. Gee, that sounds like the rich people in most of the other countries where they're trying to avoid paying taxes. Just check this out regarding France for example. I believe a very short time ago there was alot of news about many of the rich in France wanting to go to England for the SAME reasons.

 

See brokenClay how facts are? You can't posit something without supplying some kind of proof. LOL

And I sent off a quick email to a friend over on the Main land. Here's what he shot back almost instantaneously - We can't according to Western folks who think our country is a dictatorship and an authoritarian state. LOL.

 

Now I realize you lack the comprehensive skills to understand what he just wrote so I'll explain. He was parroting assholes like you over here - the LOL at the end means he was laughing out loud while responding.

[OrdinaryClay]

 

 

yes, I believe there is something out there in a spiritual realm,

Can you please tell me why you believe this?

 

Have known way too many people who have had odd experiences, especially people from asia.   Now can you tell me this: you admitted assholes are everywhere, why has God not changed their hearts? 

 

You ask questions. It's my turn.

 

What have your Asian friends experienced? What do you believe these supernatural events are caused by?

[OrdinaryClay]

 

 

 

OC said:

 

 

People are generally assholes. You will find them at work, at the grocery store, at school, on the street corner.

 

 

Hey OC, would you include yourself in that description?

 

I'm a sinner so I'm sure someone considers me an asshole.

 

for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, (Rom 3:23)

 

 

 

Ah, but isn't your god supposed to transform you into a new and better person? It does not appear as though he did a good job...

 

Where is that bazinga guy now?

 

Read Romans 7. I thought the people here knew their Bible?

[OrdinaryClay]

Another "me, me, me" thread.  How surprising.

Hey, I have an idea. Let's talk about you, you you. You start?

[raoul]

 

 

 

 

OC said:

 

 

People are generally assholes. You will find them at work, at the grocery store, at school, on the street corner.

 

 

Hey OC, would you include yourself in that description?

 

I'm a sinner so I'm sure someone considers me an asshole.

 

for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, (Rom 3:23)

 

 

 

Ah, but isn't your god supposed to transform you into a new and better person? It does not appear as though he did a good job...

 

Where is that bazinga guy now?

 

Read Romans 7. I thought the people here knew their Bible?

 

Still trying to get people into discussions about your book of myths? I've found that whenever I've run out of toilet paper, some pages from the many bible translations I have works nicely

[antix]

 

 

 

yes, I believe there is something out there in a spiritual realm,

Can you please tell me why you believe this?

 

Have known way too many people who have had odd experiences, especially people from asia.   Now can you tell me this: you admitted assholes are everywhere, why has God not changed their hearts? 

 

You ask questions. It's my turn.

 

What have your Asian friends experienced? What do you believe these supernatural events are caused by?

 

 

Some from India have seen healings (not limbs regrowing, but reversal of degenerative diseases.  One Korean friend swears the monks there can do odd things (but it might be fakery).

[antix]

Clay, back to the OP:  why does Norway have the highest standard of living in the world even though they are cool with abortion?  China is the new superpower (economically and soon to be militarily)  Why.    

[◊ crazyguy123 ◊]

I'm just trying to figure out which one.. OC or Thumby, actually turns me off of religion more?

 

Might make an amusing poll.

 

If there was a poll created on this subject, where would be a good location to post it? Would it belong here in the Lion's Den?

[Guest r3alchild]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jesus *said to him, "Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed." (Joh 20:29)

I did believe, but mu faith was destroyed by the actions of Christians, some really screwed up things in the old testament and a couple other issues. Clay, trust me, if Jesus was to pop up in front of me and say I am real and then disappear, that would send me back to believing.

What happened? Do you have a testimony on this site by chance?

Old testament, some king sacrifices his daughter, Abe being asked to sacrifice Isaac (if God knows our true heart why would ask someone to sacrifice his own son?), too much science showing at least an old earth, macro evolution, cultures in the middle of nowhere who never heard of Christ, towel of babel, but yet the langauges are totally different (meaning romance lanquages are different from Asian one which are different from native American ones etc), the vast majority of xians I know being total assholes etc

Everyone one of those items you listed have also given me pause for thought. Some I've found very clear answers for, and others I simply don't know the answer too. No one knows all the answers no matter where they fall in the continuum of belief. It would be ridiculous for me to reject Christ because I don't know all the answers.

 

People are generally assholes. You will find them at work, at the grocery store, at school, on the street corner.

 

What if some were unfaithful? Does their faithlessness nullify the faithfulness of God? By no means! Let God be true though every one were a liar, ..."

(Rom 3:3-4)

 

Do you believe in the spiritual world?

finding answers to difficult scriptures can be worked out with the bible and other resources, but they will allways end up being theoretical by nature. (not a evidence based theory) So really the only way you can prove you have answers to biblical inconsistencies and difficulties, is for god to show up and tell you if your right.

If you are referring to empirical evidence than I agree, but don't fall into the trap of believing that the only valid evidence is empirical. It is simply not true. The statement, "empirical evidence is the only valid form of evidence" is self refuting. You can't empirically demonstrate the truth of this statement.

Subjective evidence is not so trust worthy, but empirical based evidence is. Like the evidence that shows us how old the universe or the earth is, that evidence can also be used to prove the bible to be unreliable in those matters.

 

Once you start seeing the bible as unreliable in matters like that, you natrually start to question, how far reaching does this go. Ask yourself, is the universe more than 6000 years old? Then go from there.

I don't know exactly what subjective evidence is. Take the time to understand what evidence is. A legal source would be good.

 

The universe is 13.5 byrs old. I'm an old earth Christian. The Bible does not teach the earth is 6000 yrs old. People have read this into the Bible. Now, I don't fault someone for believing the earth is 6000 years old. It is not bad to believe such a thing, but I don't hinge my faith on that.

 

If you are honestly interested listen to William Lane Craig's Defenders Pod-Casts. They are very good in this area. http://www.reasonablefaith.org/defenders-2-podcast

 

Listen to the sections on Creation for a good discussion of why it is reasonable for a Bible following Christian to believe the earth is old.

Great you believe in the evidence so far, now ask yourself, if the earth is very old and the genesis account is also true then I would have to believe the 6 days in the bible is alot longer time span. Read genesis and ask yourself how did the plants and trees survive without the sun, since the sun came later.

 

Genesis 1 v 11

 

11 Then God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.” And it was so.12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.13 And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.

14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times,and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so. 16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.

 

If it was only a matter of days that the vegetation had to be without the sun then it wont matter to much. But if those days were millions of years it would matter.

[sdelsolray]

 

Another "me, me, me" thread.  How surprising.

Hey, I have an idea. Let's talk about you, you you. You start?

 

 

Not a good idea at all.  It is much more enjoyable watching you attempt to hide your narcissim, of which, by the way, you are failing.  I suspect you are a Calvanist wannabe, but too afraid to go there.

[Thurisaz]

 

(Man this is good, even hilarious... I rarely have the chance nowadays to mock someone who so obviously begs for it... )

 Thuri, its useless to get these fine distinctions across to someone like OC. This is just so ludicrous!

 

Heh of course it's useless. Like I said above, I do it for shits and giggles

 

Why do you believe and base your life on "babbling bullshit"?

Nice attempt to change topic. Geee I'm so surprised... not. It's one standard copout of morontheists confronted with something they have no memorized answer for.

 

Well, amuse us further morontheist. Let's see how you will evade the following...

 

I was referring to making claims about the supernatural, whether you call it religion or anything else. I freely admit that I have no supporting evidence for the supernatural things of my faith. Now let's hear your objective verifiable evidence supporting what your buybull says.

Oh that's right you have none. That's why you puke the same old same old bullcrap across this site, just like all other morontheists who came here and were destroyed.

 

To all my fellow anti-morontheists reading this... let the contest begin, place your bets! How will fuckface reply to this statement of mine?

 

1. not at all (no posting to reply to this one)

2. memorized buybull quote

3. cheap wordplay, trying to twist my posting out of context

4. insults and/or holier-than-thou arrogance

5. other (if you think I missed an option, please state)

 

This could be good...

[seeker001]

 

 

Clay, you claim that god intervenes in the lives of individuals. How did your God intervene in your life? 

I'll answer that question, but did you not just recently say personal revelation was important and meaningful?

 

Only to the individual, but it can not be used as subjective evidence. Whatever revelation was given to you is yours alone, not mine. I asked only out of curiosity, I mean no harm.

 

You have a lot of guts to keep coming back here and arguing with people who have a completely different reference frame than you.

 

btw, if you don't feel comfortable posting your revelation here, you can feel free to pm me. Barring my account being compromised, whatever you send to me stays with me. That's if you wish.