Would You Ever Submit And Worship God

[pratt]

or like one of the old forumers may say

 

the mafia tells OrdinaryClay :"suck my dick or i blow your brains off"

 

ooops,,, thats not extortion, it's just free will, and you bear the consequences

[boftx]

1) The NT does not teach free-will,

 

2) "God" must need something from creation or else he would not have performed such an action. It follows that "God" can only be seen as complete because of us.

 

3) What a puny "God" yours must be.

[Thurisaz]

 

Worship "God" and accept his love as expressed in Jesus or burn in hell for eternity. No extortion there, right?

No extortion there, correct.

 

Your mind set is twisted. A consequence of an action is not extortion. Damnation is a consequence of a free will choice people make. If a father tells their child not to stick their hand in the fire the father is not extorting anything from the child.

 

Gotta love morontheists and their worthless babblings.

 

You braindead cultists keep harping how your gawd knows literally everything and created the entire universe including us. It logically follows from these premises that free will doesn't exist. You lose.

 

Idiots like you love to compare your monster with an ordinary human parent, conveniently ignoring that human parents are in no way omni-everything like your moster supposedly is. Helpful hint: Only try to compare your gawd to human parents if you want to be seen as an idiot again - and if you really want that, I recommend just openly saying that, it gets you want you want much faster.

[OrdinaryClay]

What will it take for me to worship him? I don't know. What will it take for me to believe in the Christian God? I don't know. If God wants me to acknowledge him he has my number. I believe that spirituality is a personal thing, and that one's personal revelation is just that, personal. Whatever sign God gives to me is my revelation alone. 

 

If you don't mind me turning this question around, what did it take to make you a believer and in turn worship him? Do you believe because of a personal revelation or do you believe because you were born into it? I'm not asking this to be snarky, I am curious.

Good question. I accepted Christ when I was 16.

 

I will freely admit it was not evidence or logic that first brought me to God so I agree with your personal revelation point very much. I did spend many decades afterwards investigating the foundations of my faith logically and scientifically and have found them to be in full agreement with my faith. The evidence for me has been scientific, logical, philosophical, historical, psychological and supernatural.

 

What did it take? It was an overwhelming sense of God's spirit in my life. He drew me irresistibly. I'm very, very honest with myself and I can say I love Him with every fiber of my being.

[boftx]

Idiots like you love to compare your monster with an ordinary human parent, conveniently ignoring that human parents are in no way omni-everything like your moster supposedly is. Helpful hint: Only try to compare your gawd to human parents if you want to be seen as an idiot again - and if you really want that, I recommend just openly saying that, it gets you want you want much faster.

 

 

Thurisaz, you may have heard this saying: you can't fix stupid. But I like to add that you can hope it doesn't breed.

[boftx]

OrdinaryClay,

 

I have to ask, can you hypnotized?

[Astreja]

Yes, I did mean willingly.

 

Given that no one would willingly submit and worship Him given evidence it is clear all the talk about evidence is just a psychological crutch. I think a reasonable interpretation is that anti Christian "evidence talk" is just a way of comforting themselves. There is a deep need to convince themselves that He does not exist.

 

Bull-fucking-shit, Clay!

 

You're the one who worships this supposed creator of hell.  You have to convince your deluded butt-hurt self that somehow it's all the wayward mortals' fault they get burned, rather than the fault of the being that created the torture chamber and condemned them to spend eternity there.

 

You're so keen on living forever, and so scared of losing your ever-shrinking purchase on the crumbling ledge over the unquenchable flames, that you willingly call evil good and expect us to follow suit.

 

Ain't gonna happen.  We are all infinitely more good than your pretend god.  Even you, with your victim-blaming and wobbly grasp of moral principles.

 

Consider your make-believe god duly strangled with its own entrails, and the twitching corpse roundhouse-kicked into the flames that it, itself intended for us... And your page in the Book of Life shredded in My crosscut shredder and recycled as cat litter. 

[OrdinaryClay]

1) The NT does not teach free-will,

 

2) "God" must need something from creation or else he would not have performed such an action. It follows that "God" can only be seen as complete because of us.

 

3) What a puny "God" yours must be.

1) Yes it does.

 

2) That's a non-sequitur

 

3) What is yours?

[boftx]

 

Yes, I did mean willingly.

 

Given that no one would willingly submit and worship Him given evidence it is clear all the talk about evidence is just a psychological crutch. I think a reasonable interpretation is that anti Christian "evidence talk" is just a way of comforting themselves. There is a deep need to convince themselves that He does not exist.

 

Bull-fucking-shit, Clay!

 

You're the one who worships this supposed creator of hell.  You have to convince your deluded butt-hurt self that somehow it's all the wayward mortals' fault they get burned, rather than the fault of the being that created the torture chamber and condemned them to spend eternity there.

 

You're so keen on living forever, and so scared of losing your ever-shrinking purchase on the crumbling ledge over the unquenchable flames, that you willingly call evil good and expect us to follow suit.

 

Ain't gonna happen.  We are all infinitely more good than your pretend god.  Even you, with your victim-blaming and wobbly grasp of moral principles.

 

Consider your make-believe god duly strangled with its own entrails, and the twitching corpse roundhouse-kicked into the flames that it, itself intended for us... And your page in the Book of Life shredded in My crosscut shredder and recycled as cat litter. 

 

 

When a simple "Fuck you!" isn't good enough.

[OrdinaryClay]

 

Yes, I did mean willingly.

 

Given that no one would willingly submit and worship Him given evidence it is clear all the talk about evidence is just a psychological crutch. I think a reasonable interpretation is that anti Christian "evidence talk" is just a way of comforting themselves. There is a deep need to convince themselves that He does not exist.

 

Bull-fucking-shit, Clay!

 

You're the one who worships this supposed creator of hell.  You have to convince your deluded butt-hurt self that somehow it's all the wayward mortals' fault they get burned, rather than the fault of the being that created the torture chamber and condemned them to spend eternity there.

 

You're so keen on living forever, and so scared of losing your ever-shrinking purchase on the crumbling ledge over the unquenchable flames, that you willingly call evil good and expect us to follow suit.

 

Ain't gonna happen.  We are all infinitely more good than your pretend god.  Even you, with your victim-blaming and wobbly grasp of moral principles.

 

Consider your make-believe god duly strangled with its own entrails, and the twitching corpse roundhouse-kicked into the flames that it, itself intended for us... And your page in the Book of Life shredded in My crosscut shredder and recycled as cat litter. 

 

"The lady doth protest too much, methinks."

 Hamlet, Act III, scene II

 

[OrdinaryClay]

 

 

Worship "God" and accept his love as expressed in Jesus or burn in hell for eternity. No extortion there, right?

No extortion there, correct.

 

Your mind set is twisted. A consequence of an action is not extortion. Damnation is a consequence of a free will choice people make. If a father tells their child not to stick their hand in the fire the father is not extorting anything from the child.

 

Gotta love morontheists and their worthless babblings.

 

You braindead cultists keep harping how your gawd knows literally everything and created the entire universe including us. It logically follows from these premises that free will doesn't exist. You lose.

 

Idiots like you love to compare your monster with an ordinary human parent, conveniently ignoring that human parents are in no way omni-everything like your moster supposedly is. Helpful hint: Only try to compare your gawd to human parents if you want to be seen as an idiot again - and if you really want that, I recommend just openly saying that, it gets you want you want much faster.

 

Tell us about polytheism.

[Astreja]

I ain't no "lady," Clay. 

 

[seeker001]

 

'snip

 

Gotta love morontheists and their worthless babblings.

 

You braindead cultists keep harping how your gawd knows literally everything and created the entire universe including us. It logically follows from these premises that free will doesn't exist. You lose.

 

Idiots like you love to compare your monster with an ordinary human parent, conveniently ignoring that human parents are in no way omni-everything like your moster supposedly is. Helpful hint: Only try to compare your gawd to human parents if you want to be seen as an idiot again - and if you really want that, I recommend just openly saying that, it gets you want you want much faster.

 

 

Also, what kind of parent would even want their children to worship them that isn't a nutcase? My parents raised me to be their equal, they don't want me to be subservient to them. In turn for all the good they have done for me I naturally give them my respect, but I don't worship them.

 

 

What will it take for me to worship him? I don't know. What will it take for me to believe in the Christian God? I don't know. If God wants me to acknowledge him he has my number. I believe that spirituality is a personal thing, and that one's personal revelation is just that, personal. Whatever sign God gives to me is my revelation alone. 

 

If you don't mind me turning this question around, what did it take to make you a believer and in turn worship him? Do you believe because of a personal revelation or do you believe because you were born into it? I'm not asking this to be snarky, I am curious.

Good question. I accepted Christ when I was 16.

 

I will freely admit it was not evidence or logic that first brought me to God so I agree with your personal revelation point very much. I did spend many decades afterwards investigating the foundations of my faith logically and scientifically and have found them to be in full agreement with my faith. The evidence for me has been scientific, logical, philosophical, historical, psychological and supernatural.

 

What did it take? It was an overwhelming sense of God's spirit in my life. He drew me irresistibly. I'm very, very honest with myself and I can say I love Him with every fiber of my being.

 

Fair enough. I may have reservations about your religion, but we all need to go down the path that makes the most sense to us. 

[Astreja]

 

Also, what kind of parent would even want their children to worship them that isn't a nutcase? My parents raised me to be their equals, they don't want me to be subservient to them. In turn for all the good they have done for me I naturally give them my respect, but I don't worship them.

 

Precisely.  A good parent wants his or her kids to surpass them, not remain in eternal childhood and dependence.

 

Tell us about polytheism.

 

 

Kind of like the Father, Son and Holy Ghost... But with more interesting characters.

[OrdinaryClay]

 

I ain't no "lady," Clay. 

 

You don't need to be.

[Galien]

 

 

Yes, I did mean willingly.

 

Given that no one would willingly submit and worship Him given evidence it is clear all the talk about evidence is just a psychological crutch. I think a reasonable interpretation is that anti Christian "evidence talk" is just a way of comforting themselves. There is a deep need to convince themselves that He does not exist.

 

 

Perhaps we are challenging this apparent need for submission and worship. 

 

Perhaps not.

 

There is nothing to comfort myself about. 36 years a christian and not one solitary scrap of evidence that the supernatural exists. NOT ONE.

Perhaps your denial of the supernatural is comforting to you.

 

 

I have never had any comfort in my life, spiritual or otherwise, and I am challenging the need for worship and submission not just on the part of god, but all these psychopaths who think they are here to fill his job orders. Wouldn't surprise me if you were one of them yourself.

 

Just who the fuck exactly do you think you are deciding for us what goes on in our hearts or minds? You know nothing of the emotional torture or spiritual abuse some of us have been through.

 

Keep your stupid, ill informed, rude, arrogant opinions to yourself. 

 

I wanted god to be real more than anything. I wanted there to be something pure and uncorrupted in this stinking world. But it isn't real, and the LAST thing ever that would convince me otherwise are arrogant assholes like yourself who think you know everything. Humility mate. At least learn to read the bloody bible, and try and remember it is jesus you are meant to be worshipping, not paul. And definitely not your own ego.

[♦ ficino ♦]

OC, I predicted to BAA that you'd ignore all the points recently made to you on this site and would disappear for a while, only to return as though nothing had been said.  Yep, you've done exactly that.

 

I submit to human authorities, to the needs created by various human situations, in the generality of my life.  I'm not against submission as such.  I am against "submitting" to people who propound false claims.  There isn't any way of "submitting to" or worshiping the God you promote except by also accepting the Bible as true.  Since the Bible contains many contradictions and absurdities, it can't be accepted as true.  So we don't even get to the stage of talking about submitting to and worshiping the god figure that is depicted in that book.

 

If I were to return to religion it would be to Buddhism or, if it's possible for a Westerner, some form of Hinduism, or neo-Platonism, which is like a religion in many ways.

[Deva]

Only if I were on the precipice of hell and God was getting ready to shove me in.Then it would be forced, wouldn't it?

 

Otherwise, some form of brain damage.

 

Anyway, I follow the Dharma. 

[Guest r3alchild]

What would bring you to completely submit and worship The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob?

Proof

[Ravenstar]

Well.. my hypothesis is correct.  Christians are the most deceptive, self-righteous, arrogant, deluded idjits on the planet.

 

Do you feel all self-rationalized now? Can you sleep at night better having justified your belief that us exes are just rebellious, sin-loving apostates? Do you have that warm fuzzy feeling now that you have now convinced yourself of our blasphemy and hatred toward your 'god'? Have you convinced yourself that everything we have said about ourselves is a lie? Yup... it's because we haaaaaaate god!  STFU.

 

Fucking smug bastard. If there is such a thing as a 'christ-like' spirit - you fail. Hypocrite.

 

There is no humility in you... you are so deep in pride it isn't even funny. Your disrespect and contempt for your fellow humans is reprehensible... there is NO love in you... only a need to be right... and a subconscious TERROR that you are not - that you might be just like the rest of us puny humans... mortal. Transparent as glass, and it isn't pretty.

 

Can you wrap yourself up in your elitism and narcissism and feel SECURE now? IF your Jesus showed up right this moment he would shake the dust off of his sandals in your face.

 

The BIBLE is a farce, proven over and over again.. here and elsewhere... and the description of that 'god' in that collection of lies and spin and borrowings from the pagans is abhorrent, hateful, violent and morally small... there's tribal people deep in the jungles of south america who are more moral... The ancient Hebrews were backwards, illiterate, protectionist racists with a political agenda - and they portrayed their god - whom they took from the Canaanites, as a reflection of that and their own envy of those around them... that god does not exist, and if it did - it should be killed.

 

IF there is a 'god'.. one who is responsible for the entire universe (and it's pretty fucking big mate) then it's not that one...(or any other anthropomorphic man-described entity) and it's unlikely that it is focused on the tiny little life forms crawling on the skin of one backwater planet in an insignificant galaxy in the midst of BILLIONS of galaxies (those we can actually observe) for a blink of cosmological time. You do know that Andromeda is headed right for us right? A galaxy 3 times the size of our is destined to slam into ours... head on collision. IF there is a 'god' then it is so incredible vast and 'alien' to us that there's no possibility of any kind of communion with it... we are mere bacteria infesting a rock circling a medium star in the rural part of our galaxy. Fuck.. the EGO blows me away. It most certainly would not NEED my 'worship'.

 

There is no biblical evidence for the immortality of the 'soul' either...

 

As for your narcissistic question... the whole point of EX-christian is this: WE ALREADY HAVE, and found out it's all a LIE. What? After all this time here you haven't figured that out yet? We aren't unfamiliar with this stuff... if anything most of the people here are MORE informed about christianity than christians. You are not only arrogant and unbelievably self-righteous.. you are stupid (dense) as well. Your self-imposed ignorance is truly astounding.

 

IF there is a real 'god'.. one that is the essence of 'love'.. then he will look at me and say, "you may have been wrong - but you followed your heart - you followed TRUTH as best you could and used the faculties I gave you - you were true to yourself, kind and loving, you did your best to care about your fellow man... there is no fault in that.. now let me tell you what it really is all about and I will answer all your questions."

 

So.. fuck you and your elitist deception, and unbelievable self-importance and self-righteousness.

 

We have a winner folks!  OC takes the prize for christian who turns me off of christianity the most. Thumby!  you aren't on top anymore.

[raoul]

Yes, I did mean willingly.

 

Given that no one would willingly submit and worship Him given evidence it is clear all the talk about evidence is just a psychological crutch. I think a reasonable interpretation is that anti Christian "evidence talk" is just a way of comforting themselves. There is a deep need to convince themselves that He does not exist.

 

Is it any wonder that people like Dawkins say people like you are so deluded? Your response, which I PREDICTED almost word for word says it all. What the fuck do any of our responses have to do with EVIDENCE? I believe most if not all of us were speaking about the blind, unthinking worship of a despot based on your alleged holy book of myths? Now, is you want to bend over and well you hopefully get my drift here, that shows YOUR willingness to not question anything and just blindly follow like any other good Nazi. But don't insult our intelligence by switching the argument to the cult's erroneous view on 'evidence'.

[raoul]

OC, I predicted to BAA that you'd ignore all the points recently made to you on this site and would disappear for a while, only to return as though nothing had been said.  Yep, you've done exactly that.

 

I submit to human authorities, to the needs created by various human situations, in the generality of my life.  I'm not against submission as such.  I am against "submitting" to people who propound false claims.  There isn't any way of "submitting to" or worshiping the God you promote except by also accepting the Bible as true.  Since the Bible contains many contradictions and absurdities, it can't be accepted as true.  So we don't even get to the stage of talking about submitting to and worshiping the god figure that is depicted in that book.

 

If I were to return to religion it would be to Buddhism or, if it's possible for a Westerner, some form of Hinduism, or neo-Platonism, which is like a religion in many ways.

So true Ficino (and the rest of you like Deva, Ravenstar, et. al.). How they construct their queries in a way to already anticipate whatever we hit back with and then they run away like frightened kids. I'm sure their 'lord' is sssoooo proud of their efforts. OC is probably giving his testimony right now, in church, showing his fellow cultists how evil non-cultists really are.

 

Sheesh, when I was a cult apologist decades ago I kinda thought I'd done a crappy job at it. But after seeing stuff like this and other things over on Youtube and other sites, I was the 4 part of the trinity. lol (okay, I know it's supposed to be 3 parts but you get my joke, right?)

[buffettphan]

A consequence of an action is not extortion. Damnation is a consequence of a free will choice people make. If a father tells their child not to stick their hand in the fire the father is not extorting anything from the child.

 

 

 

 

Even if our children disobey us, I don't know a human parent who would force the child to keep his hand on the hot fire for all eternity.  

 

That's your evil god's specialty.  

 

 

So fuck him and fuck anyone who tries to influence me into worshiping such a monster.  Short of brain-damage, I could never worship him again.  If he "appeared" before me, I would doubt my own sanity and would check myself into a mental hospital -- pronto! 

[raoul]

He got 'saved' when he was 16???? Well, from a psychological standpoint, I understand the blindness totally. The ones who came to baby jesus at younger ages are the ones most susceptible to brainwashing. It's no secret why the military, especially marines, go after YOUNG folks, ages 18-19.

[Thurisaz]

Thurisaz, you may have heard this saying: you can't fix stupid. But I like to add that you can hope it doesn't breed.

Oh I don't hope to "fix" a morontheist. But there are times when I just love to have pointed one to truth purely for shits and giggles *snicker* 

 

Tell us about polytheism.

Why would I? You wouldn't listen anyway - at "best" you'd scan my posting for keywords and babble the preprogrammed response that was fucked into (whatever passes for) your brain by your cult führer.