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Elephants Are Welcome In The Room.


roadrunner
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My wife and I talk about church stuff from time to time but we NEVER bring up my unbelief because it always leads to a tearful discussion. Last night I said something along the lines of not being afraid to say things about church anymore. Its funny to look back at how we used to say "God will Strike you down for saying XYZ. However, no one I know of has ever been "ZAPPED" by lighting on the spot for making a comment. So I then said its not fair that the boston bomber can come to christ and go to heaven and good people everywhere who never accept jesus have to burn.  In 7 years of marriage shes never said it but I finally got her last night to admit that it is not fair (Small Win). But it was followed with "who are you to set the standard" (true slave mentality) and then says "these are questions that you could ask <fill in the blank> I don't care what apologist say "Just" and "Merciful" are mutually exclusive. You cant be both. Christians know it, everyone knows it, but they roll over and accept it. 

 

I just needed to vent about how frustrating it is to have her admit this and then pass the buck to someone else without caring to look for herself. This is not the first time this happened. AHHHH!!!!!!!

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I'm glad you and your wife are able to talk about these things, even if it leads to some arguments. My wife hasn't brought it up once since I first revealed my unbelief to her a year ago. I think she's terrified of the subject, and doesn't even know how to broach it.

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Guest r3alchild

One thing that grinds me about christians, is when you ask a question about gods will you get a reply like "You need to ask god about it and he will reveal it to you"

 

This question exposes that the person is deflecting the question onto something else that they think can't be proven wrong.

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One thing that grinds me about christians, is when you ask a question about gods will you get a reply like "You need to ask god about it and he will reveal it to you"

 

This question exposes that the person is deflecting the question onto something else that can't be proven wrong.

And why would we talk to someone who we don't believe is real? It's like us telling them, "Just talk to Satan and you'll see how nice he really is."

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Guest r3alchild

 

One thing that grinds me about christians, is when you ask a question about gods will you get a reply like "You need to ask god about it and he will reveal it to you"

 

This question exposes that the person is deflecting the question onto something else that they think can't be proven wrong.

And why would we talk to someone who we don't believe is real? It's like us telling them, "Just talk to Satan and you'll see how nice he really is."
:)
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This is the strategy I have been following for quite some time now.

 

      I have admitted my unbelief to quite a few people. When they ask me questions, I 'delightfully' with a huge smile on my face (in all my

drama queen glory rolleyes.gif )  tell them in a humorous way why I do not believe the bible. For instance I totally make 'light' and 'fun' of the book of genesis and after I'm done - they don't say a word. I say, '''How silly of the great creator to have all the power and glory to mess the whole creation up? didn't he know what he was doing?'' They normally don't say a word after I'm finished. I then send them on their way to 'think' a little.

 

I also (no matter what I am going through) show them how happy I am without god. I wouldn't give them the satisfaction to say my 'low' mood was because I didn't serve god.. This has been working wonderful for me and gets me out of a lot of binds dealing with people.

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I'm partly comforted to know that other deconverts with 'still believing' spouses also have such troubles as you describe. I certainly did. When I first let my ex-wife know that I no longer believed, she forbade me to speak with the kids about it for at least two years (in case I was just in a "phase"). Over the next couple years, things were so-so. I tried just a couple times to engage conversation with her about faith. It would always proceed with me questioning some aspect of faith/god/church, her giving a pat answer or two, me dismantling the pat answers easily, and finally her getting angry and cutting off all conversation.

In the long run (about 3-4 years) she took to utterly hating me in the most overt ways. It ended of course in divorce.

I hope you all will do better, but can only suggest you be prepared for the worst.

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Small win, but don't forget the ripple effect. These small wins can fester and impact the Teflon that coats the delusional mind. Keep up the small wins. They are more powerful than you think and can have a cumulative effect! :-)

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Guest r3alchild

I'm partly comforted to know that other deconverts with 'still believing' spouses also have such troubles as you describe. I certainly did. When I first let my ex-wife know that I no longer believed, she forbade me to speak with the kids about it for at least two years (in case I was just in a "phase"). Over the next couple years, things were so-so. I tried just a couple times to engage conversation with her about faith. It would always proceed with me questioning some aspect of faith/god/church, her giving a pat answer or two, me dismantling the pat answers easily, and finally her getting angry and cutting off all conversation.

In the long run (about 3-4 years) she took to utterly hating me in the most overt ways. It ended of course in divorce.

I hope you all will do better, but can only suggest you be prepared for the worst.

A christian hating an unbelieving husband, lets see if jesus would want that.

 

Luke 14:26

If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple.

 

I guess jesus aproves of hate or does he ?

 

1 John 3:10

Here is how you can tell the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil. Those who don’t do what is right do not belong to God. Those who don’t love their brothers and sisters do not belong to him either.

 

I guess jesus does not aprove of hate, or does he ?

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Small win, but don't forget the ripple effect. These small wins can fester and impact the Teflon that coats the delusional mind. Keep up the small wins. They are more powerful than you think and can have a cumulative effect! :-)

positivists you are exactly right. we were speaking with a "third party" and she brought up a comment I had completely forgot about that basically supported a secular worldview and how morality and a good marriage are not necessarily fruits of the spirit. I dont really remember making the comment but it evidently tugged at her. 

 

@christstarous see mathew 10:34-37  I agree wholeheartedly with you.  Jesus was an arrogant little S.O.B. 

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I often wonder how the angle of "I'm not sure that I disbelieve in God, I just don't give a fuck if he burns me alive in hell for all eternity.  He's a horrible god and I don't want to serve him..." would work

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Redundant but I’ll say it again anyway. If you were ever a long time believer; just look at yourself when you were in your indoctrinated state. Your mind simply would not process any information that challenged your beliefs. You refused to take such information seriously. You immediately classified any challenge to your faith as heretical nonsense concocted by the Devil himself. Satan was after your soul and your beliefs were all that stood between you and eternal damnation.

 

That it is even possible to indoctrinate anyone to that unthinking illogical state of mind strikes rational people as incomprehensible; but those who have experienced it know just how real and effective it is.  A prospect is someone who is willing to listen, comprehend, contemplate and process new information. If a person is not willing to do that they simply are not a prospect. When you were a believer you quickly learned it was pointless to “tell your story” to someone who wasn’t interested. You eventually learned such people were not prospects for Christ. The bible confirms this in the parable about the soil.

 

Until a believer sees the inconsistencies, contradictions, conflicts, and paradoxes for themselves they simply are not a prospect for deconversion.  If a former believer continues to harp on the fallacy of Christianity and belief in God to a believer that relationship will likely be irreparably damaged or even destroyed. If that relationship involves a friendship then the friendship with end, but if it involves a marriage you might want to rethink you approach and give full consideration to how this conflict will ultimately be resolved because divorce could be a real possibility. 

 

Is your insistence for your spouse to see things your way really worth destroying your marriage? My wife is still a Christian but I’m not and she is aware that I’m no longer a believer. She occasionally asks me a question about some religious issue or belief. I attempt to answer her honestly, give her the evidence for my position and then stop unless she wants more information, which she rarely does. She is still a Christian, but these small snippets of information that she has requested has convinced her that the bible isn’t literally true. And that is a major accomplishment as far as I’m concerned.  She is a cradle Christian. I have learned to only answer questions that she initiates and to keep my answers short and to the point. Baby steps……it isn’t a sprint it’s a marathon. Slow and easy don’t try and shove more down your mates throat than they can swallow.

 

Just my opinion based on my experience.

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