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Goodbye Jesus

Stupid Christians


Asimov

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deist

n: The belief, based solely on reason, in a God who created the universe and then abandoned it, assuming no control over life, exerting no influence on natural phenomena, and giving no supernatural revelation.

 

 

At first deism seems to be an appealing concept because it appears to solve two problems. First it provides some initial plan, or design elements, (a first cause if you must) for the universe, which helps explain the complexity, especially concerning life, which is observed. And secondly, the abandonment clause explains why there is no supernatural interaction with daily life.

 

The problem with deism is: what did God create and when did God finish? Was the world and all its creatures created about 6000 yrs. ago as JDRobins is implying?

If so, why does the world appear (to science) to be much older? Why is there a fossil record which makes things appear as if there has been a long process of evolution?

 

If instead one says the universe is about 13-14 billion years old and has developed through a big bang type scenario, then when did God stop creating and interacting with nature? Was it after that first minute fraction of a second when everything was just a hot blob of energy, or was it later, say about 1-2 billion years ago when some creature crawled out onto land, or a few million years ago when hominides split off from the other primates?

 

It seems that Bruce is implying that God created the "laws of nature", kicked off the big bang, and then retired. Well, those laws did indeed result in the formation of humans 13+ billion years later, but it is hard for me to see that we are anything special, that we are created in the "image of God". Why not wait a few more million of billion years for something "better" to come along?

 

M Theory, or Multiverse Theory says there could be many universes, possibly with different laws of nature. We are then just one of the test tubes in God's laboratory.

If we are what God was looking for, when is he going to start interacting with us?

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Goodbye Jesus
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Just simply sharing a neutral view of observation here about expectation. These questions often hit me. For example:

If you tried to share what you believed to be correct and true to another, knowing this truth to be rather firm or hard, how would you do so without appearing to be hurtful, biased, or even hateful to the listener? Many times, Christians have a loving and selfless heart when sharing hard truths (or their own belief of these truths) and get deemed things they are not. But the nature of the truth they share simply makes things appear this way.

 

How would you want a Muslim to share the truth with you? When he gets to the part where he tells you that you are frelled and you are going to burn in the pit of hell, how are you going to be? Are you going to be all pissy because he assumes you are in the dark? Or are you going to tell him you will read the Koran and attend Saturday School and find out if he knows something you don't? Will you find that he has done this out of love and concern for you a stranger?

 

Then things begin to unfold. The listener, being offended and hurt about what the Christian is saying deems the Christian judgemental. And often, things are directed at him which are hurtful and judgmental as well.

The Christian is being judgmental. The Christian has judged that the listener needs his God. If I am the listener you are at least implying if not saying that my good works are crap (in direct contradiction to Ez18 and Matt25:31-46). I don't like my good deeds to be called crap. I say, "Christian get the crap out of your eye, before you worry about mine." I will trust to my good works rather than bow to the Holy Mafia Don in the Sky.

And often, it is here the bridge construction to understanding crumbles apart. It just seems that some who ask things of others are all but totally unwilling to give the same back in return.

Evangelical Christians don't seem to realize that pushing their religion on strangers is like walking up to a stranger and saying, "Hey, you wanna fuck?" Sure once in a while you are going to ge laid, but 19 times out of 20 you are going to get slapped in the face.

And things quickly hit a dead end.

As well they should

I just often wish there was a far more better and loving way to bridge our personal beliefs and concepts without this sudden destruction.  Without love, what do you have?

TV aside, most folks don't believe in love at first sight. Don't tell me you love me until you have cleaned my toilet -- I don't believe you. Your painful attempt at prostilization strengthens my disbelief in your "love".

 

Senseless evil which only leads to chaos and strife. If we open our eyes, ears, minds, and especially hearts to others, and make wholesome efforts fight back these feelings of repulsion and offense, then maybe the bridge construction would occur long enough for a bridge to be fully built.

That's all I'm saying.

Peace!

Richard. :)

 

You are a long way from convincing me that the religion that has perpetrated so much senseless evil sowing chaos and strife is love and an antidote to the worlds ills. If you want to know where feelings of revulsion come from read church history, read some of the anti-testimonies.

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This generalization and view just seems prevalent throughout this board. Simply speaking, I just wanted to share that not all Christians are the hateful, evil-hearted people many seem to automatically see them as.

 

No, but their beliefs are hateful and joy-killing.

 

I also shy away from these types of hypocritical Christians, or ones who consider themselves Christian. Mostly, I try my best to discern ones fruit and heart on an individual basis. Christian and non-Christians alike. Not being judgemental. Just observant to the light they shine, or the shadows they leave behind. Everyone has both light and shadow in many diverse ways in many diverse degrees.

 

Let's cut the bullshit. Do you believe that human beings will burn in hell forever? Just answer that.

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Guest godleydemon
No, but their beliefs are hateful and joy-killing.

Let's cut the bullshit.  Do you believe that human beings will burn in hell forever?  Just answer that.

 

ooh ooh I can answer that

 

*dial tone*

 

*beep* *beep* *beep*

 

*ring* *ring* *ring*

 

*pick up*

 

"Hello"

 

"Hi dad will sinners burn in hell?"

 

"no son, only if they tick me off"

 

"thanx dad"

 

"no problem son, hows the book writing going?"

 

"just fine, gotta go dad"

 

"alright buh bye"

 

"Bye dad"

 

*click*

 

there you go... *grin* my daddies satan

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coping is familiar to me, it is difficult to transition from a faith system that gives you all the answers, to finding them yourself.

 

Yes, it certainly is...that is where I am at right now and researching, thinking and reflecting at a vigorous pace right now. I can't wait for the day when it kind of eases up for me actually. I know it'll come though and I'm being patient.

:)

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Ever notice how every other belief except Christianity is widely accepted by the growing, non-Christian world with little or no resistance. Regardless of which one thinks is the true belief, or form thereof? Regardless of logic and truth?

This fact alone just sings that something is amiss.

 

Richard, I see what you are saying, but actually the answer is easy for me to provide based on my opinion.

 

I see belief systems, other than christianity as easily understandable and acceptable because they typically don't hold a part within that says if you don't believe them, you are going to be punished for an eternity. (burn in hell, etc.) OR they don't hold the value that if you don't believe in them, that you are evil, etc.

 

This is the biggest factor that I see that causes the non-acceptance and rejection of christianity, but is tolerant of other belief systems.

 

What do you think, does that help at all? Hopefully, this answer will provide a point of understanding instead of letting you continue to believe that something may be amiss......thinking that something is "wrong" just further justifies the christian position, but see, it really isn't based on anything in the true aspect.

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As the bible truly is right about, no sin is worse than another. Committing murder is no better or worse than telling a lie. Sin is sin, even if we don't see it as such.

 

DW,

Respectfully, you have stated that murder and telling a lie are equal.

 

Now, I realize that this has been programmed in you to believe this, but think about what you are saying here rationally.

 

Murder and telling a lie are EQUAL? Doesn't something seem wrong with that?

 

You have to have a nagging part inside that is saying..."uh, this seems very strange, how can this be" that you are ignoring.

The bible, a book you have read, has TOLD you to believe this, changing what you knew to be correct previously.

 

Do you see how christains are not allowed to think on their own?

 

Seriously, murder, rape, all of that, CANNOT be equal to telling a lie...that's just simply insane.

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Argh, I am so tired of Christians who think being gay is a sin.  It has been MORE than proven that it is entirely a NATURAL genetic variation.  It is really just an excuse to be bigoted to say it is a sin.

 

It would be like telling an African American "I love you but I hate the color of your skin."  Would you ever say that??  I hope not.  It is the same, exact thing!  Argh...why not just be a Nazi then???

 

I am so tired of people who use religion as an excuse to be bigoted.  Please, please, can you people stop being so prejudiced?!  Your god is supposedly a god of love, yet you continue to use the religion as an excuse to hate "the sin" -- when really you hate others, yet are too blind to see it.

 

This is one of the main reasons I left.  I will have no part of such bigotry.  I honestly cannot wrap my brain around it.  God said "Love thy neighbor," why do so many Christians assume that means "love thy Straight, White, Middle-Class or Upper Class, Ultra-Conservative, Fundie Neighbor but nobody else?"  You're really being very hypocrictical if you do that.

 

 

 

Me too.....this had a lot to do with me leaving as well.

 

I was just truly sickened at the behavior of christians that I witnessed. Pure pregudice and intolerance of humanity.....

 

and no DW, this was not just ONE group I witnessed but many, many, many.

 

I am straight personally, but have absolutely NO problem with gay people , nor did I have a problem with it when I was a christian. I was accused of not being a "true" christian, I was told I was going to hell and I was also told that I was a wolf in sheep's clothing, leading the flock astray simply by me saying that I didn't have a problem with gay people.

It was simply insane!

 

And when I brought up the fact that they were all being extremely judgemental, they used the "bible" as a cover for it. Said that they had the right to judge and call out others.

It was TOTAL bullshit......christians don't have a right even within their own peer groups to judge anyone!!!

 

Call it what they will, being loving, calling out others, helping others from going to hell, blah blah, it is judgemental, predgudiced and hate inspiring. The crap that starts wars and encourages hate crimes.

I don't see anyone else doing this kinda stuff. I don't know of ANY other group that is truly hateful toward humanity and hides behind "religion."

 

Right now, the christians on the board that believe this way will be screaming "unfair!!" But, us ex's know...been there, seen that. Don't need another t-shirt.

It's all very sad.

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So much so, I actually put a loaded gun to my head and pulled the trigger. It misfired for the very first time in all the years I owned that gun. And I lost the nerve to clear and reload. This not only scared me back to my senses, it also caused me to toss that gun. It also opened up the very first door to discovery. One of a golden raod.

Was this a miracle from the Lord? I dunno, friend...

You decide.

Richard

 

Richard, I am sorry to hear that you went through such a difficult time, but very happy to hear that you make it out ok..and are here to tell about it.

 

You know, I have seen you post many times that you feel the anger coming at you possibly personally for the acts of previous christians, etc. and that you are one year new in this and that you are not repsonsible for what others before you have done.

You are absolutley correct and I do understand what you're saying and where you are coming from. Truth is, we have never met....and you seem like a nice person.

Please understand that any debate that goes on is not personal, at least from my standpoint and I'm sure many others.

It's just that anytime someone becomes a "part" of a worldview, they have to expect to also stand up for the "bad" parts as well. This will either make you stronger in your belief or end up weakening your position to you inside, but either way, learning, growth, debate, all of it is healthy to do.

I see the respect for others in your post and I think that's great. I would ask you one thing....in dealing with all these aspects of thought coming at you, even thought some of them may not be pleasant, based on other's view of christianity and the damage it may have caused them, please don't take it personally, but better yet, at least examine inside why people may have these angers and why they feel the way they do. There is really information to be gained and found out from these various positions.....so please, instead of dismissing them, please at least take the opportunity to examine the "why" of it all. It will be productive for you, I really do believe that.

And lastly, if you want to be a christian, that's A-ok with me!!! I may discuss and debate with you once in a while, but if this is the system that you need to have to better yourself, your life and live in peace, by all means, I think that's great! Glad you found a way for yourself to achieve those things, truly. I think sometimes the problems come in when a christian tells others that they also have to do these things as well, even though it may not prove to be productive for them or best for their well being. I think as you walk your path, you will see what I mean or come to a set of thoughts on this for yourself. I do believe that is the key though....and a part of why you are feeling the anger/etc....it's a result of what many christians do on a regular basis.

Nice discussing with you Richard and take care.

:)

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