Refutations To Anti-Vaccine Memes

[LifeCycle]

I didn't let me daughter get the what was it now? The cervical cancer.. oh ya... genital wart vaccine thing, forget what they called it. ooohh Gardasil!

 

Smallpox, Rubella and the rest.. hell yes! Sorry, but polio, smallpox, etc.. and those kill way more than any issues with the vaccines. Read some history on those.. and I have a friend who was struck with Polio as a child... his life has been hard, he was badly crippled.

 

The reason I didn't was because the actual rates for that disease causing that kind of cancer are miniscule, and with regular pap tests it's usually caught anyway.. AND it's one of the lowest mortality rates of any of the cancers...AND my family does not have any history of cervical cancer.. and they were only inoculating the girls (?) Well.. how the hell do the girls get it people? - it doesn't just climb in there from a toilet seat. No point vaccinating only one half of the population for an STD. That's fucking stupid. Creeped me out somehow... just vaccinating girls going into puberty. Maybe I've read too much science fiction  LOL

 

I looked it up and wasn't happy with the mercury content also. Respect yourself, use a condom.. get pap smears, problem solved.

 

I am considering getting her vaccinated for Hepatitis though, now that they are coming out with that. She can decide for herself about the Gardasil I skipped when she is an adult.

 

What I would like to know is this.. IF we can eradicate Polio, smallpox, etc.. in the west - why the hell don't we do it for everyone around the world? Get rid of these nasty bugs once and for all. COST shouldn't be a factor.. hell, I'll pay an extra $5 in taxes to make that happen.

 

I heard somewhere recently that they are developing a vaccine for HIV... goodness, I hope that's true.

Good call on passing on the Gardisil Vaccine...  Last I read 47 deaths were attributed to it. http://truthaboutgardasil.org/memorial/

 

And the detractors say, "Oh but how can we know it was the vaccine!!!  Maybe it was the macaroni and cheese they had the night before!"

[SilentLoner]

 

Good call on passing on the Gardisil Vaccine...  Last I read 47 deaths were attributed to it. http://truthaboutgardasil.org/memorial/

 

And the detractors say, "Oh but how can we know it was the vaccine!!!  Maybe it was the macaroni and cheese they had the night before!"

 

 

LifeCycle, that's complete and utter bullshit.

 

http://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/anti-vaccine-lunacy-more-lies-gardasil/

 

 

 

And I notice you conveniently avoided my debunking your BS claims about mercury in vaccines.

[SilentLoner]

The reason I didn't was because the actual rates for that disease causing that kind of cancer are miniscule, and with regular pap tests it's usually caught anyway.. AND it's one of the lowest mortality rates of any of the cancers...AND my family does not have any history of cervical cancer..

Nor did my family. But that didn't stop my mom from getting it when my dad cheated on her, resulting in a full hysterectomy in her 30's. 

 

 

 and they were only inoculating the girls (?) Well.. how the hell do the girls get it people? - it doesn't just climb in there from a toilet seat. No point vaccinating only one half of the population for an STD. That's fucking stupid. Creeped me out somehow... just vaccinating girls going into puberty. Maybe I've read too much science fiction  LOL

 

Because studies on its effectiveness in boys weren't in yet. They are now, and both boys and girls can get the vaccine. Your paranoia (yes, that's what it seems like to me) here is unfounded.

 

It makes sense to vaccinate girls early because, simply, they have not HAD SEX YET. And therefore they won't have active strains. 

I looked it up and wasn't happy with the mercury content also.

 

Read my above post on the difference between ethyl and methyl mercury. 

 

Respect yourself, use a condom.. get pap smears, problem solved.

Tell that to my mom and numerous other women who got it from a married partner.

 

 

What I would like to know is this.. IF we can eradicate Polio, smallpox, etc.. in the west - why the hell don't we do it for everyone around the world? Get rid of these nasty bugs once and for all. COST shouldn't be a factor.. hell, I'll pay an extra $5 in taxes to make that happen.

 

 

 

Good for you. But its going to take more than $5 from you to fund these programs that are already facing cuts due to economic problems.

 

I heard somewhere recently that they are developing a vaccine for HIV... goodness, I hope that's true.

 

 

 

Will you take issue with it if girls can be vaccinated against it at an early age? 

[LifeCycle]

 

 

Good call on passing on the Gardisil Vaccine...  Last I read 47 deaths were attributed to it. http://truthaboutgardasil.org/memorial/

 

And the detractors say, "Oh but how can we know it was the vaccine!!!  Maybe it was the macaroni and cheese they had the night before!"

 

 

LifeCycle, that's complete and utter bullshit.

 

http://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/anti-vaccine-lunacy-more-lies-gardasil/

 

 

 

And I notice you conveniently avoided my debunking your BS claims about mercury in vaccines.

 

No, I believe your take on things is bullshit.  Sorry.

 

Regarding Mercury.  Thimerosal is Mercury.  You can keep on toting the medical establishments profitable party-line, but I'm not going to believe it.

[florduh]

You can keep on toting the medical establishments profitable party-line, but I'm not going to believe it.

 

 

 

I don't doubt you'll never believe it. My question is, why wouldn't the evil medical/pharmaceutical axis of evil just stop wasting their money on research and development of vaccines that actually do eradicate many diseases when they can make more money from people who are sick and dying?

 

(Seriously, do you not see how vaccines have saved huge numbers of lives and totally eradicated some deadly diseases? Is there not enough track record to see that vaccines work very well to increase general mortality rates? Ignoring the overwhelming evidence to their efficacy puzzles me.)

[LifeCycle]

 

You can keep on toting the medical establishments profitable party-line, but I'm not going to believe it.

 

 

 

I don't doubt you'll never believe it. My question is, why wouldn't the evil medical/pharmaceutical axis of evil just stop wasting their money on research and development of vaccines that actually do eradicate many diseases when they can make more money from people who are sick and dying?

 

(Seriously, do you not see how vaccines have saved huge numbers of lives and totally eradicated some deadly diseases? Is there not enough track record to see that vaccines work very well to increase general mortality rates? Ignoring the overwhelming evidence to their efficacy puzzles me.)

 

I think you need to reread my first response to this thread.

 

I'm not entirely against them.  I do question the usefulness/purpose of many of them, however.

[florduh]

 

 

I'm not entirely against them.  I do question the usefulness/purpose of many of them, however.

 

 

 

 

Maybe so, but your relentless general condemnation of a conspiracy driven, immoral, money making homogeneous death machine kind of overshadows admitting to a couple of obvious successes by those same evil people. Recent example:

You can keep on toting the medical establishments profitable party-line

 

 

 

 

 

So again, if making money by any immoral means is the only goal of the medical conspirators, why bother with vaccines at all? There's more money in sick people, not those who don't get sick because they were vaccinated.

[LifeCycle]

 

 

I'm not entirely against them.  I do question the usefulness/purpose of many of them, however.

 

 

 

 

Maybe so, but your relentless general condemnation of a conspiracy driven, immoral, money making homogeneous death machine kind of overshadows admitting to a couple of obvious successes by those same evil people. Recent example:

You can keep on toting the medical establishments profitable party-line

 

 

 

 

 

So again, if making money by any immoral means is the only goal of the medical conspirators, why bother with vaccines at all? There's more money in sick people, not those who don't get sick because they were vaccinated.

 

I guess you assume vaccines don't make people sick?  And they certainly don't cause disease (Hey we have a drug for that!).  No, not at all possible.

 

It's like you don't believe corruption exists where there's a chance to make money... If you can make money, you better look for the exploits of your business.  Because someone will - if they can.  They will exploit it to make more and more money.  You're right there is money in sick people.  That's one of the main reasons I question vaccines and their little "side-effects." 

 

You ever wonder if people in the cancer industry invest in the tobacco industry?  I do.  You ever wonder if the pharmaceutical guys work together with the vaccine guys?  I do.

 

I question all of it.  I wish humanity was beyond this sort of thing. 

[florduh]

Questioning and fact finding is good and necessary. Just don't get too paranoid.

[Thought2Much]

Questioning and fact finding is good and necessary. Just don't get too paranoid.

 

Too late, in this case.

[LifeCycle]

 

Questioning and fact finding is good and necessary. Just don't get too paranoid.

 

Too late, in this case.

Maybe there's a vaccine for that.

[florduh]

Good one, LC.

 

My particular medical paranoia is concerning cholesterol. Marketing the statin drugs that lower cholesterol is a very big business. Each year the "experts" lower the target number, thus increasing the potential market. 

 

Most people do not have any side effects from the drugs, and a few have some minor issues. I don't think they are unsafe, but I also think they are unnecessary. Medical wisdom goes through fads and they often reverse themselves after a time. The fact remains that merely having low or high serum cholesterol does not affect mortality rates. Cholesterol is a byproduct of other factors, and there is no correlation between cholesterol itself and heart disease. Those are facts that even statin-pushing doctors won't deny. Statins, I believe, are the real cash cow of the pharmaceutical industry.

 

My conclusions come from extensive investigation, though. I don't indict the entire medical and pharmaceutical fields as immoral, money making monoliths.

[roadrunner]

I guess you assume vaccines don't make people sick?  And they certainly don't cause disease (Hey we have a drug for that!).  No, not at all possible.

 

I used to be right with you. A close friend of mine lost his wife to cancer after a 5 year battle and after all the ups and downs he was convinced that there was a cure that was being kept from the public. Empathizing with him and seeing all the family that I've lost to cancer, emotions got the best of me and I almost jumped on that wagon.

 

I stopped reading internet blogs and listening to jenny mccarthy and actually talked with several people in the medical industry (doctors, pharmacists, pharmaceutical reps, nurses, researchers who really work in the industry and don't have a book to sell). Now , I understand cancer and the pharmaceutical industry a lot better.  I was also schooled on the progress of cancer treatments. I can't go into detail about cancer here but it comes down to the fact that nature is smarter than us right now but we're getting there.

 

Polio? Gone. Whooping cough? Gone. Chicken Pox? Gone. Flu? Dropping Dramatically. Cancer? Working on it. This is all in the past 100 years and these are just a few of the milestones. 

 

Just go to the source and see for your self. You did it with christianity, do it with this. You dont have to be a chemist you just need the information.

[RankStranger]

I think there's no shortage of incompetence and profit-motivated bullshit in the medical industry. IMO those are plenty adequate to explain the problems I've dealt with. No overt conspicacy required.

[midniterider]

As I get into my car that runs on an internal combustion engine that burns fossil fuel, technology originally developed in the mid to late 1800s, I ponder the motivation and intentions some industries have (or don't have) to propel us into better technology or just maintain status quo.

[SilentLoner]

 

No, I believe your take on things is bullshit.  Sorry.

 

 

I had a creationist give me the same line the other day when confronted with evidence.

 

 

 

 

Regarding Mercury.  Thimerosal is Mercury.  You can keep on toting the medical establishments profitable party-line, but I'm not going to believe it.

 

 

 

 

Congratulations on your utter ignorance of basic chemistry. Maybe go drink some methyl alcohol to celebrate? Since by your logic, its the same as the ethyl alcohol. 

[skepticalme]

Corperate greed is precisely why a cancer cure wouldn't be suppresed.  If one pharma company did develop a cure, it would be set.  That would be their marketing slogan for the next century, "Bayer, we cured cancer bitches!"  "Eat that Pfizer!  All our board members are richer than Bill Gates now!  BTW they will be down latter to buy you."

 

Would one of them sit on that and potentially get scooped by another company?  It may be human nature to screw over other humans but that would happen at the corperate level long before it happened to the general population.  There is no conspiracy, the pharma companies would screw each other first.  They need the consumers, they don't need the competition.

 

If maintaining the status quo was more profitable than innovating and advancement; Edison wouldn't have invented the light bulb, he would have invested in whale oil.  Ford would have started a horse ranch.  Bill gates would have sold folders and filing cabinets.  Human nature isn't to conspire and play a low stakes game, it's to gamble and gamble big screwing over the other people at the table with you.  Our "ME! ME! ME!" mentality disolves any conspiracy before it gets off the ground.

[Vigile]

I agree, but it would be far more than just bragging rights.  The biotech that cures cancer will see it's stock price go to the moon and its vested research scientists trading in their lab coats for yacht caps.  Quietly suppressing research amongst hundreds or even thousands of biotechs out there trying to win this lottery ticket would be a much greater feat than curing cancer.  It just doesn't make any sense, much less have any evidence to back up the claim. 

[SilentLoner]

[hoosier]

"The medical establishments profitable party-line" LOL Yeah big pharma just makes all that crazy chemistry stuff up to make money, just like they do with germ theory, those conniving bastards! But seriously, "I'm not going to believe it" is not a refutation, you should explain your version of chemistry that explains why ethyl and methyl groups have the same properties. In real chemistry a single atom can make an immense difference in the property of a molecule. For example the herbicides 2,4-D and 2,4,5-T were both components of Agent Orange during the Vietnam War. 2,4-D remains in the environment for about two weeks while 2,4,5-T  remains indefinitely. Why? 2,4,5-T has one single more chlorine atom. That's all it takes to render it impervious to breakdown by natural causes. So sorry, but there is a difference between functional groups of molecules, it is a FACT not an opinion or "party-line".

[Thurisaz]

There is greed among "big pharma" but that is not automatically an OK for every pharma-related conspiracy theory. You could just as well say that we're all murderers because, let's face it, we've all dreamt at times of killing our respective bosses at work, based on "they all clearly have a motive!".

[SilentLoner]

Vaccination message after a life with whooping cough

 

A FORMER Coffs Harbour grandma, whose life has been marred by the scars of whooping cough, has a frank, but heartfelt message for parents feeling anxious about getting their children vaccinated.

 

Rae MacAlpine was four when the disease, which claimed countless babies in her generation, invaded her tiny lungs.

When laws banning unvaccinated children from child care centres passed through NSW Parliament this week, Mrs MacAlpine felt compelled to tell her story in the hope parents would be encouraged to protect their children from "a lifetime of misery".

 

For someone who was told she would never make it past 40, Mrs MacAlpine is looking pretty good for 84, but while the years brought her a happy marriage, two children and much-loved grandchildren, there have been times she has wished she was not a whooping cough "survivor".

 

 

http://www.dailyexaminer.com.au/news/vaccination-message-after-life-whooping-cough/1889789/

[SilentLoner]

When the Good Die Young: How Chicken Pox Took Jesse

 

 

Jesse had just graduated from third grade and was starting his fourth. He was healthy, active, charming. He had everything waiting for him. Nothing prepared Renay for what was about to happen, and the speed with which it happened left family and friends reeling.

 

 

 

http://beforevaccines.blogspot.com/2013/06/when-good-die-young-how-chicken-pox.html?spref=fb