stryper Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 oh that argument again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boftx Posted May 6, 2013 Author Share Posted May 6, 2013 I have always found Tillich to be attractive in some ways, not in small part because his theology can lead to a deist position quite readily (although that is not his intent) thanks to his formulation of God as the ground of being. It is no surprise that other theologians would have a problem with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emshi21 Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 . The idea of a Creator does not necessity the Christian God. The metaphysical need for a creator is filled by any conscious causeless omniscient being. Natural Theology builds a stepwise case for the Christian God. For goodness sake take the time to do some semblance of study on the subject. Really, again, the people here claim to have given their decision thought and it is clear most have not. We quite clearly have not given our decisions thought? So it seems logical to you that we all decided, based on no research or reasoning, to leave Christianity, despite the fact that if we are wrong and you are right we would suffer eternal torment in hell? Do you really think that we are THAT stupid? I have heard what I think are natural theology arguments, people arguing that the world needs a creator, that this is well designed, this is well designed, e.t.c. I don't pretend to be an expert on it and I have probably misunderstood the definition. But that doesn't mean that I didn't think through the decision to leave religion. It took me more than a year to finally decide to do so formally and it was NOT an easy decision. Do Not Patronise Us *rant over, sorry if it came across as offensive* 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
◊ crazyguy123 ◊ Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 We quite clearly have not given our decisions thought? So it seems logical to you that we all decided, based on no research or reasoning, to leave Christianity, despite the fact that if we are wrong and you are right we would suffer eternal torment in hell? Do you really think that we are THAT stupid? Of course he thinks that most of us are THAT stupid. *rant over, sorry if it came across as offensive* If he is offended by your rant, then that is fine and dandy, since he probably intended on offending someone with his comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryper Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 If life is so darn common in the universe then where in the **** are they. Make you a deal, OC: You run out and fetch Me an interstellar spacecraft with faster-than-light drive, and we'll pop over to My ancestral planet of Himat... In the M42 nebula (left side of Orion's belt, and down a bit). Pack a lunch; it's 1400 light years away. On a more serious note, I believe that the universe is positively teeming with life in virtually every solar system -- But that we may never get to see it simply because of the enormous distances from one star to another. Even Proxima Centauri is so far from us that with currently-proposed technologies it would take a staggering 19,000 years to get there (and even longer if we can't use the gravitational slingshot method). If we ever develop nuclear pulse propulsion, we might be able to cut that down to 85 years, but don't hold your breath. So you believe the universe is teaming with completely isolated life. Possible, but not plausible. Actually quite plausible OC. But your mind within its current constraints can't see the plausibility of that. It further should be noted that life consists of everything from algae and bacteria to whales, humans, and oaks. And that is limited to just what we know about on earth. Things that live in environments that would kill humans have life. My personal opinion expressed many times that our definition of life is limited. Further, the implication of the thought behind this type of thinking is about 2 centuries out of date. That sounds more like something from 1800's rather then the 2000's. We are the pinnacle. The universe exists for us. We are all there is. For someone who accepts evolution, your thinking is dissonant on this issue. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted May 7, 2013 Super Moderator Share Posted May 7, 2013 Whatever the tortured "logic" involved, it always comes to the same thing - "We don't know (yet), therefore a god." We don't know exactly how the pyramids were built, therefore aliens. We don't know what that blip was on the sonar, therefore Nessie. We don't know what caused that sound, therefore ghosts. After a long, long time looking for gods, monsters and aliens, nothing has turned up. Still we default to improbable conclusion with no evidence. Why? Is 'just not knowing at this time' not an option for most people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
◊ crazyguy123 ◊ Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 Whatever the tortured "logic" involved, it always comes to the same thing - "We don't know (yet), therefore a god." We don't know exactly how the pyramids were built, therefore aliens. We don't know what that blip was on the sonar, therefore Nessie. We don't know what caused that sound, therefore ghosts. After a long, long time looking for gods, monsters and aliens, nothing has turned up. Still we default to improbable conclusion with no evidence. Why? Is 'just not knowing at this time' not an option for most people? It could be that "just not knowing at this time" is an option, but people are too afraid to not know. They need to know the answers to "What made that sound?" "How were the pyramids built?" "Why is there life?" If they do not have the answers, it might drive some people insane because they need answers, If they do not have answers, they just accept the easiest hypothesis, usually the ones with very little to no evidence proving them to be correct. They will use whatever arguments they need to in order to make their chosen "answer" appear to be more correct or plausible. When that "answer" is challenged by others, they must do whatever is necessary to cling to that "answer", even if it means fighting tooth and nail to do so. Telling them that they are wrong or providing them with new information might make some people feel as though their life saver is being taken from them, forcing them to drown in the sea of the unknown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest r3alchild Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 . The idea of a Creator does not necessity the Christian God. The metaphysical need for a creator is filled by any conscious causeless omniscient being. Natural Theology builds a stepwise case for the Christian God. For goodness sake take the time to do some semblance of study on the subject. Really, again, the people here claim to have given their decision thought and it is clear most have not. We quite clearly have not given our decisions thought? So it seems logical to you that we all decided, based on no research or reasoning, to leave Christianity, despite the fact that if we are wrong and you are right we would suffer eternal torment in hell? Do you really think that we are THAT stupid? I have heard what I think are natural theology arguments, people arguing that the world needs a creator, that this is well designed, this is well designed, e.t.c. I don't pretend to be an expert on it and I have probably misunderstood the definition. But that doesn't mean that I didn't think through the decision to leave religion. It took me more than a year to finally decide to do so formally and it was NOT an easy decision. Do Not Patronise Us *rant over, sorry if it came across as offensive* No you are fine, your right about what you say, oc does not seem to understand that most of us or even all of us know who or what we are turning against and all the warnings from christians about hell only serves to aggravate us of what all our deepest fears told us years ago when we left christianity. Oc we know the fear of hell more than you ever could! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeker001 Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 OC also doesn't seem to comprehend that it takes a lot to turn on what you once believed so dearly. The cost mentally, emotionally, physically, and socially is steep; especially, if one doesn't have a support network outside their former community. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest r3alchild Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 OC also doesn't seem to comprehend that it takes a lot to turn on what you once believed so dearly. The cost mentally, emotionally, physically, and socially is steep; especially, if one doesn't have a support network outside their former community.Yes, those poor people who leave christianity and never find or realize that theres any support, those people must border to near insainity leaving christianity. Oc I am still waiting for you to open a thread and post all this proof you say you have. You have alot of explaining to do, why your truth is in fact the only truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurisaz Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 Well fuckface sure functions well for its cult führer no? The intellectual capacity it's showing is exactly that of the amoeba the authoritarians desire... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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