Was Satan The Serpent In The Garden Of Eden?

[Guest r3alchild]

Christians these days take for granted that satan the devil is the serpent of the old testement who beguiled eve in the garden of eden. However when you look in the bible you will find that the only reference to satan being the serpent is in revelations.

 

Revelation 12:9

And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

 

And

 

Revelation 20:2

And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

 

In these verses it seems john believed that satan was the old serpent (leviathan) mentioned in the old testement.

 

Job 26:13

By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; his hand hath formed the crooked serpent.

 

And

 

Isaiah 27:1

In that day the Lord with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea.

 

These verses suggest that this crooked serpent is the serpent from genesis, but there is no mention in job that this serpent is the fallen angel satan. It seems the serpent in genesis and satan are two diffrent beings. Satan in job is an angel who makes a bet with god (who job is unaware of) and the serpent is the great dragon (leviathan) a mythical being, who john later calls satan in revelations.

 

You will also find that in the new testement 2corinthians paul mentions the serpent in the garden of eden (as a narrative to the corinths) but he also does not mention that this serpent is satan. (neither do we find in any of the gospels of jesus that satan is the serpent of genesis)

 

2 Corinthians 11:3

But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

 

It is believed by christians that satan was a high angel that fell to the earth after he was found with sin. But when we read genesis the serpent who talks to eve is referred to as one of the beasts of the field.

 

Genesis 3:1

Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

 

Satan was never a animal (beast of the field) I believe that this story of the serpent in genesis is just a narrative of how the human race obtained knowledge of good and evil and has nothing to do with satan.

 

Was john of revelations the only one who believed that satan was leviathan that great dragon? was he trying to graft one old myth into another? and is satan really the serpent in the garden of eden?

[HymenaeusAlexander]

It does seem that John the Revelator was more likely referring to the sea monster of Isaiah than the snake in the garden. However, that chaos monster of the sea may, in fact, make a veiled appearance in Genesis 1:2

From my blog post on Genesis 1:2:

 

Quote
The second part of this verse is usually translated something like “the Spirit (ruwach) of God was moving (rachaph) over the face of the water. Ruwach is interchangeable with “wind/breath.” The NRSV even translates it as, “…a wind from God swept over the face of the waters”. When Marduk takes prominence as the chief god in the narrative of the Enuma Elish, he blows his breath across the face of Tiamatthe goddess of chaos and the watery deep and eventually overthrows her by splitting her in two (Tablet IV lines 96-100). Of note is that the Akkadian word "tiamat" is a cognate to the Hebrew word for deep (tÿhom) used here in Genesis.

Interestingly, Tiamat is represented as a sea monster, kind of like Leviathan, Rahab or Yam. I mention this because Psalm 74:12-17 recounts a strikingly similar event in which Elohim is portrayed splitting the head of a sea monster as a first act of creation and then carrying on with other creative acts much like Marduk does in the Enuma Elish.

I believe it was Irenaeus and Justin Martyr who were the first Christians on record to directly link the serpent of Genesis 3 with Satan, but they didn't originate the idea. The idea was floating around at least as early as the 1st century BCE and makes an appearance in The Wisdom of Solomon (2:24).

Most astute Christian theologians will admit that the idea that Satan spoke through the serpent in Genesis 3 is drawn from inference. Jesus calls the devil "the father of lies"; the serpent told the first lie recorded in the Bible, ergo the devil is the serpent. The problem is that Yahweh told the first lie ever recorded in the Bible ("on the day that you eat of it you will surely die") and at best, the serpent asked a leading question.

[Guest r3alchild]

It does seem that John the Revelator was more likely referring to the sea monster of Isaiah than the snake in the garden. However, that chaos monster of the sea may, in fact, make a veiled appearance in Genesis 1:2

 

From my blog post on Genesis 1:2:

Quote

The second part of this verse is usually translated something like “the Spirit (ruwach) of God was moving (rachaph) over the face of the water. Ruwach is interchangeable with “wind/breath.” The NRSV even translates it as, “…a wind from God swept over the face of the waters”. When Marduk takes prominence as the chief god in the narrative of the Enuma Elish, he blows his breath across the face of Tiamatthe goddess of chaos and the watery deep and eventually overthrows her by splitting her in two (Tablet IV lines 96-100). Of note is that the Akkadian word "tiamat" is a cognate to the Hebrew word for deep (tÿhom) used here in Genesis.

 

Interestingly, Tiamat is represented as a sea monster, kind of like Leviathan, Rahab or Yam. I mention this because Psalm 74:12-17 recounts a strikingly similar event in which Elohim is portrayed splitting the head of a sea monster as a first act of creation and then carrying on with other creative acts much like Marduk does in the Enuma Elish.

I believe it was Irenaeus and Justin Martyr who were the first Christians on record to directly link the serpent of Genesis 3 with Satan, but they didn't originate the idea. The idea was floating around at least as early as the 1st century BCE and makes an appearance in The Wisdom of Solomon (2:24).

 

Most astute Christian theologians will admit that the idea that Satan spoke through the serpent in Genesis 3 is drawn from inference. Jesus calls the devil "the father of lies"; the serpent told the first lie recorded in the Bible, ergo the devil is the serpent. The problem is that Yahweh told the first lie ever recorded in the Bible ("on the day that you eat of it you will surely die") and at best, the serpent asked a leading question.

In response to satan being the father of all lies, a reading of that scripture seems to show that jesus was referring to cain.

 

John 8:44

 

Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

 

Here jesus calls this father a murder and a liar from the begining, so he must be referring to cain, who was the first person to murder and the first person to lie.

[HymenaeusAlexander]

Here jesus calls this father a murder and a liar from the begining, so he must be referring to cain, who was the first person to murder and the first person to lie.

 

Yeah, they've got an excuse for that. See, Satan tempted Eve, which lead to death, therefore Satan is in this sense a murderer. QED. Never mind that the Cain explanation fits better.

[mwc]

This really old thread talks about it.

 

          mwc

[3DollarBill]

Look at it this way:  If the "divinely inspired" literature on which you form the basis of your entire worldview contains stupid shit like a talking snake, literally on the first fucking page... Well, then, you're pretty much compelled to make up some more stupid shit in an attempt to sounds less dumb.

 

I was always taught that "snake" or "serpent" was just a derogatory name the author was calling Satan, who was putting thoughts into Eve's head to tempt her to eat the fruit.  Really, this version doesn't sound any less dumb than the literal reading, but if you've already accepted the existence of a supernatural king of the universe and his arch-nemesis, then it's easier to swallow I guess.

[florduh]

I am shocked to see that Scripture is unclear and there may be some contradictions as well. Who knew?

[HymenaeusAlexander]

I am shocked to see that Scripture is unclear and there may be some contradictions as well. Who knew?

 

It's only an apparent contradiction as there are no real contradictions in Holy Writ because God doesn't lie and it's only unclear because you lack the Holy Spirit and have fallen victim to the noetic effects of sin on your thinking and reasoning. Sucks to be you.

[centauri]

Satan being the serpent is Christian mythology.

He's a whipping boy who gets the blame for anything evil.

Satan in the Old Testament is one of God's many sons who serves as man's accuser in God's court.

He's an obedient servant of God, not an enemy.

The serpent in Genesis was cursed to crawl on its belly, which Satan doesn't do in either the Old or New Testaments.

[florduh]

 

I am shocked to see that Scripture is unclear and there may be some contradictions as well. Who knew?

 

It's only an apparent contradiction as there are no real contradictions in Holy Writ because God doesn't lie and it's only unclear because you lack the Holy Spirit and have fallen victim to the noetic effects of sin on your thinking and reasoning. Sucks to be you.

 

I'm so ashamed. Sorry. 

[par4dcourse]

After careful reading of Revelation and due consideration I have come to the conclusion that John the Revelator discovered psilocybin.

[Joshpantera]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJCxcez5U0M

 

Yes, the snake thing is a carry over from earlier mythology where the serpent is sort of a trickster character. The idea of Satan clearly evolved over time. 

 

Here's a closer look at the specifics of the conceptual evolution: 

 

[sdelsolray]

Christians these days take for granted that satan the devil is the serpent of the old testement who beguiled eve in the garden of eden. However when you look in the bible you will find that the only reference to satan being the serpent is in revelations.

 

Revelation 12:9

And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

 

And

 

Revelation 20:2

And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

 

In these verses it seems john believed that satan was the old serpent (leviathan) mentioned in the old testement.

 

Job 26:13

By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; his hand hath formed the crooked serpent.

 

And

 

Isaiah 27:1

In that day the Lord with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea.

 

These verses suggest that this crooked serpent is the serpent from genesis, but there is no mention in job that this serpent is the fallen angel satan. It seems the serpent in genesis and satan are two diffrent beings. Satan in job is an angel who makes a bet with god (who job is unaware of) and the serpent is the great dragon (leviathan) a mythical being, who john later calls satan in revelations.

 

You will also find that in the new testement 2corinthians paul mentions the serpent in the garden of eden (as a narrative to the corinths) but he also does not mention that this serpent is satan. (neither do we find in any of the gospels of jesus that satan is the serpent of genesis)

 

2 Corinthians 11:3

But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

 

It is believed by christians that satan was a high angel that fell to the earth after he was found with sin. But when we read genesis the serpent who talks to eve is referred to as one of the beasts of the field.

 

Genesis 3:1

Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

 

Satan was never a animal (beast of the field) I believe that this story of the serpent in genesis is just a narrative of how the human race obtained knowledge of good and evil and has nothing to do with satan.

 

Was john of revelations the only one who believed that satan was leviathan that great dragon? was he trying to graft one old myth into another? and is satan really the serpent in the garden of eden?

Good research.  Good questions.  Disentangling yourself from the Christian religion is hard work.  Keep it up.  Trust your skepticism, and your inquiry methodolgy.