A World Without Christianity

[Blake]

 

Terence McKenna describes a psylocibin-induced vision of an alternate timeline and world without the influence of Christianity.

 

A nice meditation. Imagine the possibilities. I wonder where we would be today?

[Guest r3alchild]

Wouldnt it be cool if you were a slider and you could slide to a world that never had christianity.

[bornagainathiest]

Hey Blake!

 

Is this of interest?  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assyrian_Siege_of_Jerusalem

Under the heading, 'Other Theories' there's a mention of William H McNeill's essay, "Infectious Alternatives", which is the first of twenty such pieces, making up the book, What If? :The World's Foremost Military Historians Imagine What Might Have Been.

 

http://www.amazon.com/What-If-Foremost-Military-Historians/dp/0425176428

 

In a nutshell, McNeill offers up the highly likely scenario of King Sennacherib of Assyria making a clean sweep of Judah in 701 B.C., easily wiping the fortified city of Jerusalem off the map and carrying it's people off into captivity.  With the belief system of Judaism exterminated like this, McNeill goes on to conclude that in it's absence, it's daughter religions, Christianity and Islam, could not have arisen. 

 

Thus giving rise to a world totally free of Christianity.

 

Food for thought, huh?

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

[◊ crazyguy123 ◊]

This possible scenario of what the world would be like without Christianity sounds like it would be amazing. AIDS and cancer might already have a cure by now if Christianity had never existed. There might be more freedom and better environments for people to live in all over the world. The culture of the world would certainly be different. Going to this alternate world would be the most incredible experience I could ever imagine. Damn I wish this was a science fiction book. If it was, I would certainly buy it!

[Blake]

Hey Blake!

 

Is this of interest?  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assyrian_Siege_of_Jerusalem

Under the heading, 'Other Theories' there's a mention of William H McNeill's essay, "Infectious Alternatives", which is the first of twenty such pieces, making up the book, What If? :The World's Foremost Military Historians Imagine What Might Have Been.

 

http://www.amazon.com/What-If-Foremost-Military-Historians/dp/0425176428

 

In a nutshell, McNeill offers up the highly likely scenario of King Sennacherib of Assyria making a clean sweep of Judah in 701 B.C., easily wiping the fortified city of Jerusalem off the map and carrying it's people off into captivity.  With the belief system of Judaism exterminated like this, McNeill goes on to conclude that in it's absence, it's daughter religions, Christianity and Islam, could not have arisen. 

 

Thus giving rise to a world totally free of Christianity.

 

Food for thought, huh?

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

 

Definitely of interest! Thanks for showing me.

 

This possible scenario of what the world would be like without Christianity sounds like it would be amazing. AIDS and cancer might already have a cure by now if Christianity had never existed. There might be more freedom and better environments for people to live in all over the world. The culture of the world would certainly be different. Going to this alternate world would be the most incredible experience I could ever imagine. Damn I wish this was a science fiction book. If it was, I would certainly buy it!

 

I'd love to be able to swim around in McKenna's mind for awhile, to experience his theories (and even his various psylocibin/DMT/salvia divinorum et. al. trips) firsthand. I'm not one who takes his every word as gospel, but I'd say that I find up to 90% of his talks and lectures to be complete gold. And despite all of his knowledge, he was totally approachable and a great conversationalist. Sad to say he passed back in 2000.

[◊ crazyguy123 ◊]

I'd love to be able to swim around in McKenna's mind for awhile, to experience his theories (and even his various psylocibin/DMT/salvia divinorum et. al. trips) firsthand. I'm not one who takes his every word as gospel, but I'd say that I find up to 90% of his talks and lectures to be complete gold. And despite all of his knowledge, he was totally approachable and a great conversationalist. Sad to say he passed back in 2000.

 

 

That sucks that he passed back in 2000. Has anyone written a science fiction novel on this particular topic dedicated to his memory or that was at least inspired by him? Maybe if there was, it would be interesting if the main character had a lot in common with him too! Or maybe McKenna could be tied into the story in some way, perhaps as an inspiration to the main character, who could somehow discover that McKenna had a revelation about real events that actually happened without realizing. Then the main character could somehow actually travel to this other Earth and learn a lot about the history and the culture there.

[seeker001]

There is a larger implication if Christianity had never been formed, what if none of us would be born. This is something that I notice with taking a cursory look at alternate reality fiction, but I am not a heavy reader of this subject. The world still looks too much like our own. If even one of our ancestors married and had kids with someone else, the direct line is gone and you'll never have been born. People tend to meet each other based on coincidences from their churches, work, school, whatever.

 

What if the potato famine never happened in Ireland? I probably wouldn't have been born since I am a descendant of one of the immigrants who fled.  My mother most likely would have married someone else, because my father would have never been born. Someone else would be alive today instead of me. I come from a line of Irish Catholics from my father's side, how would the lack of Christianity effect my family line and who my ancestors meet? This is both scary and interesting to ponder. 

[bornagainathiest]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Many-worlds_interpretation

 

I find it interesting that both Cosmology (the science of very big things) and Quantum Mechanics (the science of very small things) both predict the real existence of alternative realities.  In the sciences, when two radically different regimes appear to converge on the same or a similar answer, this often indicates that they are homing in on a deeper, underlying truth.

 

Please do check out the map of North America (v.cool!) and the links.

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

[Galien]

I get the feeling that even if there were no christianity, nor any other religion, there would always be something developed by someone that would control people, whether it was just a small group or all of society. Now we have consumerism even if we dont have a "religion" as such. Most people seem to need to be part of a herd of some kind.

[seeker001]

I get the feeling that even if there were no christianity, nor any other religion, there would always be something developed by someone that would control people, whether it was just a small group or all of society. Now we have consumerism even if we dont have a "religion" as such. Most people seem to need to be part of a herd of some kind.

Very much so. Humans are pack animals, we need to stick together in order to survive. But on the other hand this also runs the risk of people following the herd off a cliff. People also hold on very dearly to their belief system, the older people are the harder it is for them to be able to change their minds. It is our beliefs and what we learn throughout our lifetime that allows us to make sense of the world around us. The people we are around do influence us for better or worse.

[Galien]

 

I get the feeling that even if there were no christianity, nor any other religion, there would always be something developed by someone that would control people, whether it was just a small group or all of society. Now we have consumerism even if we dont have a "religion" as such. Most people seem to need to be part of a herd of some kind.

Very much so. Humans are pack animals, we need to stick together in order to survive. But on the other hand this also runs the risk of people following the herd off a cliff. People also hold on very dearly to their belief system, the older people are the harder it is for them to be able to change their minds. It is our beliefs and what we learn throughout our lifetime that allows us to make sense of the world around us. The people we are around do influence us for better or worse.

 

I lost my pack mentality pretty quickly when I found out how fast the pack could turn on me. I realised that far from helping me survive it would tear me to fucking shreds the second I did something it did not like. It also expected me to turn on others and I would not.

 

The longer I am alive, the less sense people make, and the further away from any pack I can get is safer for me that going anywhere near them.

[seeker001]

 

 

I get the feeling that even if there were no christianity, nor any other religion, there would always be something developed by someone that would control people, whether it was just a small group or all of society. Now we have consumerism even if we dont have a "religion" as such. Most people seem to need to be part of a herd of some kind.

Very much so. Humans are pack animals, we need to stick together in order to survive. But on the other hand this also runs the risk of people following the herd off a cliff. People also hold on very dearly to their belief system, the older people are the harder it is for them to be able to change their minds. It is our beliefs and what we learn throughout our lifetime that allows us to make sense of the world around us. The people we are around do influence us for better or worse.

 

I lost my pack mentality pretty quickly when I found out how fast the pack could turn on me. I realised that far from helping me survive it would tear me to fucking shreds the second I did something it did not like. It also expected me to turn on others and I would not.

 

The longer I am alive, the less sense people make, and the further away from any pack I can get is safer for me that going anywhere near them.

 

Smart thinking. 

[Burt_Lemur]

It's very interesting to ponder a history where Christianity didn't blossom as it has. I tend to believe that as societies develop the process of formulating a threat theology where a powerful unseen being rules over people with a promise of punishment or paradise is possibly common.

 

If this vast universe is full of worlds inhabited with life, could it be that some form of supreme being and messianic savior is dreamed up on a regular basis throughout the histories of civilizations everywhere?

 

I guess what I'm thinking is that if my family members weren't going to mass every week putting money in a basket in the hopes of making a down payment to spend eternity with Jesus because an alternate history prevented the fabrication of Jesus, they'd instead be going to some similar gathering putting money in some other basket in the hope of spending eternity with some other folk-fictionalized unbathed messiah.

[bornagainathiest]

Hey Lemur!

 

This isn't quite what you meant, but it does posit the notion that maybe other civilizations don't need a supreme being or messainic savior? 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Case_of_Conscience

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

[Burt_Lemur]

Interesting. If this were true, then I could finally conclude that certain family members are NOT aliens. Which is a bit surprising.

[stryper]

Very positive.   Get rid of Christianity and the world would be a better place. However, This just strikes me as incredibly Idealistic.  

 

Some one on the Micheal teaching site I read asked about Jesus not existing. Pretty much saying wouldn't the world be better without the horrors of organized religion. 

 

Barring the assysian example.   Lets look at the time as it existed. 

 

At the time,  Rome was THE power in the west.  Rome view all those where not Roman as barbarians.  They conquered because they needed gold or slaves or both.   The senators view their own citizens as the mob.  And were not above using the mob against other groups or political enemies.  Slaves were common place.   In most instances, a slave had a better life then the lowest class of freedmen. 

There was a growing trend of consumerism that really was displayed by Nero's palace which pissed everyone off.   The point is Nero's palace was just a reflection of what was going on.  If you didn't have money or the ability to do certain things, then your life was useless.  

 

In such a world, science wouldn't be given any consideration because it does add to your prestige.  Anyone considered the OTHER becomes expendable.   This would have led to a further devaluing of life.   Entire groups both internal and external would have been wiped out for no other reason then being poor, weak, and in the way.  

In stead of being able to withstand the barbarian invasions being driven by the Huns, Roman would've fallen as they destroyed their own population. I see a Rome wracked by internal strife as groups are pitted against each other for stupid reasons.   

 

A simple thought  "love on another" is the heart of what Jesus was saying.  This was twisted to the point of unrecognizablity by those in power so they could keep power.  However, the seed was there.  It was a lesson we have had to relearn over and over again.   The Aztecs and Mayans,  The American Indians.  The African Slaves.  Jews.  Heretics of the dominate religion.  Muslims.   The poor.  The sick.  The weak.  Because that seed was there, it bloomed enough to change this potential future.   Despite how terrible the horrors that came from the Christian religion.

My other issue with this video is that he is assuming that the society would some how magically not be subject to the thoughts of the time.  The prejudices, etc.   A roman would no more see a Mayan as an equal then he would a Celt.   Better luck would be had with China as they had a society that was impressive.  Romans didn't even view fellow Romans without prejudice do you really think, they would view Native Americans and Mayans as equals? 

he was obviously on some REEEAAAALLY good drugs. 

[RintrahRoars]

Terence MehKenna