Leex Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 Im a a free-thinker. I was raised on a christian family so I have a lot of friends and family members that are christian. Most of them still don't know that I am not a christian anymore. Now, the issue Im presenting on this post is of this supposed spiritual stuff that happens that have no clear answer. For example... A pastor went to church recently and gave his message. But afterwards talked with a member of the church and told her that her daughter had a bodoo "work" on her car. When the women checked it was true and they removed it psychically while praying. How do I explain this? Well, maybe the pastor itself placed the "curse" . But that still seems a little odd. Another example, A cousin was talking to me about a problem that he had. Three of his friends (girls) encountered a man that claimed to be a "saint" or something like that. He told them to take care of their virginity and described psysicaly and by name each of their love interest. One of them was my cousin. He then told them that if any of those guys had sex with them, they would die. Now my cousin is actually afraid to have sex this girl. How do I respond to that? When my cousin told me that we had a long conversation about spirituality and he told me about his spiritual battles he haves a night in his room. He says he haven't told that to anybody else. He also told me that for some time he have lost interest on christianity but that he is still a believer (because all of this things that have happened to him.) This things make me ask myself: What if there is a spiritual world? Im not sure what to believe exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipVanWinkle Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 Something is rotten in Denmark, as the saying goes. I suggest you read a book by Michael Shermer, of the Skeptics Society who wrote "Why We Believe Weird Things". He also wrote: "How We Believe." He and the Skeptics Society have investigated numerous "incidents" in the so called spiritual realm and found that every single one of them were without foundation. I don't personally believe in the spiritual or supernatural. Neither do any of the great thinkers in history that I know of. bill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurisaz Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 ... 1. A pastor went to church recently and gave his message. But afterwards talked with a member of the church and told her that her daughter had a bodoo "work" on her car. When the women checked it was true and they removed it psychically while praying. 2. A cousin was talking to me about a problem that he had. Three of his friends (girls) encountered a man that claimed to be a "saint" or something like that. He told them to take care of their virginity and described psysicaly and by name each of their love interest. One of them was my cousin. He then told them that if any of those guys had sex with them, they would die. Ad 1. Did you witness the entire thing first-hand? If not, keep in mind how many morontheists make claims like they saw with their own eyes the spontaneous regeneration of lost limbs after prayer and then, after being interrogated about it, admit they only heard a story. Ad 2. That screams "cold reading" to me. Doesn't have to be the explanation but I posit that it's quite possible that nothing supernatural is involved here. Even if we assume that something supernatural does exist, which is of course arguable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeker001 Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 Even if there is a spiritual world, but this does not mean the Christian interpretation is completely correct. After all, a stop clock is right twice a day. It could also be something else going on that you or your cousin are unaware of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miekko Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 Im a a free-thinker. I was raised on a christian family so I have a lot of friends and family members that are christian. Most of them still don't know that I am not a christian anymore. Now, the issue Im presenting on this post is of this supposed spiritual stuff that happens that have no clear answer. For example... A pastor went to church recently and gave his message. But afterwards talked with a member of the church and told her that her daughter had a bodoo "work" on her car. When the women checked it was true and they removed it psychically while praying. How do I explain this? Well, maybe the pastor itself placed the "curse" . But that still seems a little odd. How do you "check" whether there's a voodoo curse on a car? Please elaborate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overcame Faith Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 Hi, Leex, welcome to ExC. A pastor went to church recently and gave his message. But afterwards talked with a member of the church and told her that her daughter had a bodoo "work" on her car. When the women checked it was true and they removed it psychically while praying. How do I explain this? Well, maybe the pastor itself placed the "curse" . But that still seems a little odd. The explanation here is that the pastor "felt" like there had been some kind of curse placed on the church member's daughter's car and planted that suggestion when he said so. The women, having heard the suggestion, "felt" the same thing and then they allegedly removed it. This so called curse was nothing that could be objectively verified. They claimed to have removed that which, actually, did not exist other than in their minds based on the suggestion planted in their minds by the pastor. A cousin was talking to me about a problem that he had. Three of his friends (girls) encountered a man that claimed to be a "saint" or something like that. He told them to take care of their virginity and described psysicaly and by name each of their love interest. One of them was my cousin. He then told them that if any of those guys had sex with them, they would die. Now my cousin is actually afraid to have sex this girl. How do I respond to that? My first reaction is that any person that would tell someone that if they have sex with a certain individual absent some verifiable proof that the potential partners had some sort of disease like AIDS or that they were rapists or murderers is a total asshole and was being abusive to the girls. As for the allegation that this "saint" knew these girls were virgins and knew the names and physical descriptions of their love interests, tells me one of several things. First, it could be that he actually was no stranger at all and had independent information about these girls from some source. Second, he may be a stalker and a dangerous individual who has been following these girls and gathering information about them. Third, and more likely, the events did not occur exactly as you were told by your cousin. Your cousin was not there when this "saint" allegedly spoke with the girls and anything he conveyed to you is at least second hand information and possibly third or fourth hand information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted April 26, 2013 Super Moderator Share Posted April 26, 2013 Welcome! I second the suggestion to read Shermer's book. In most societies, if not all, we are taught to believe in some form of magic or other from childhood. Magical thinking then often becomes the default when something not immediately explainable happens. The argument is generally referred to as the god of the gaps. Not having the answer at hand doesn't mean god/spooks/spirits did it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
par4dcourse Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 Welcome! . Not having the answer at hand doesn't mean god/spooks/spirits did it. This. Early man who had no concept of how the world worked attributed the unknown to spirits/spooks/gods. Some still resort to that behavior. Welcome to Ex-C. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 When it comes to events in life and how they work out - no one has the answer. Therefore, the supernatural explanation will always exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaraOlive Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 Both these situations are follow-the-money cases to me. While I personally do not believe in the supernatural and believe that there is always a natural explanation, even if we don't know what it is in every situation, I do recognize that there are situations where people experience things that are difficult to explain. But in these situations, the people involved get something out of what they've claimed - mostly a power trip. The pastor maintains his authority over the congregation by being inventing a dangerous situation (that no one can disprove) and then saving the congregant from the danger. By allowing the girl's mother to participate, it binds her to his will and to the church's beliefs - because by not just believing but also participating, if she were ever to realize that it was bullshit and say so, she would lose some of her own perceived power and influence. It also means that the woman will be more invested in keeping her daughter in the church. The power trip of the "saint" is more short term, but possibly even more narcissistic. It's very likely that he encouraged the girls to open up to him about their love interests in a sneaky way, and then pretty much repeated back to them what they had already revealed, but as if he were divining it for himself. I would guess that he can pick out people who are young and inexperienced, and feeds off their astonishment, fear and belief. He definitely is getting something out of it. But I'd recommend that your cousin not have sex with this girl and pursue a healthier relationship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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