Voice Posted April 29, 2013 Share Posted April 29, 2013 Hey, that's the same map I drew in the 90's. I've seen that. Fucking blew me away, it scared me. Immediate reaction was that I had just looked down the throat of a black hole that swallowed the universe yesterday already and we just didn't know it yet. I don't know that's really the case. When I described it on Astronomy Magazine forums they published the discovery of 100 plus new, core super-cluster galaxies there. Since then I've drawn it at least a hundred times including written music to describe it. I did this painting at the time and sketched this deep sky reference as accurately as possible based on lengthy observation for a whole year. The orientation of that spiral shape and positioning are correct. The center of it is between Leo and Virgo, near Coma. It's too big to see in one scope's view, you have to pan the whole sky and look for changes in background color. Binoculars work best for this one. Conditions when I first saw it were ideal for me. -30F, 3:00 am, new moon, next to no light pollution. I was able to observe it under less than ideal conditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted April 29, 2013 Share Posted April 29, 2013 It also seems to be, as stated above, a function of consciousness and sense perception... which is tres interesting. I will argue the reverse, that consciousness, sense perception, sentience, are functions of time, resultant of its natures in our environment. Yeah. I think so too, at least to some degree... maybe. I'm not sure. Here's one conundrum I see. If time and space are just illusions, and life evolved, and with it consciousness emerged from time, space, matter... but all those things are just illusions of the mind, which is the result (through emergence) from those things... It ends with that we, our consciousness is an illusion experienced by illusionary things that constructed by that very illusion... *Where's the headspinning smiley?* Either the world is real to some degree and our consciousness is the result of it. Or the world is an illusion of a real consciousness. How can both be illusions created by each other? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice Posted April 29, 2013 Share Posted April 29, 2013 I'd say its worse. We experience time in 1D, at least visually and experientially. We can look back on further 1 dimensional snapshots of time, but its still a 1D perspective. The perpetual and former "present moment"s You're describing the origin point I think, where all the dimensions meet. Time is thought of as a construct. The nature of the moment itself is a different matter. Cliches suggest that time defines everything, time heals all wounds, time makes fools of us all... They share the precept that the moment is shaped by time. I agree with others who've said the moment is more of a continuum. It is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice Posted April 29, 2013 Share Posted April 29, 2013 Here's one conundrum I see. If time and space are just illusions, and life evolved, and with it consciousness emerged from time, space, matter... but all those things are just illusions of the mind, which is the result (through emergence) from those things... It ends with that we, our consciousness is an illusion experienced by illusionary things that constructed by that very illusion... *Where's the headspinning smiley?* Either the world is real to some degree and our consciousness is the result of it. Or the world is an illusion of a real consciousness. How can both be illusions created by each other? When you start tapping on things and taking measurements, evidence suggests the world and our environments are real and our consciousness exists within and is defined by it. To a degree it's the other way around also, we can create environments to suit us and our beliefs by manipulating raw materials of the world to do that. Did we create that, or just build it? There's the possibility they're integral, working together as components of a greater system. Evidence does not readily support the notion that we create our own natural environment through potency of consciousness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 When you start tapping on things and taking measurements, evidence suggests the world and our environments are real and our consciousness exists within and is defined by it. To a degree it's the other way around also, we can create environments to suit us and our beliefs by manipulating raw materials of the world to do that. Did we create that, or just build it? There's the possibility they're integral, working together as components of a greater system. Evidence does not readily support the notion that we create our own natural environment through potency of consciousness. Agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skepticalme Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 I've never given this much thought, but it would seem that until someone can show that E=mc2 is false then we must accept that time is real. The constant c in that equation is a velocity, which in turn is distance over, wait for it ... time. It is difficult to imagine that something so fundamental to our understanding as time would not have a basis in reality given its use in that equation. Interesting that you bring up E=mc2. Have you ever wondered why it is c squared? c squared referse to the speed of light in two vectors 90 degrees to each other. How can something go the speed of light in two directions that are at right angles? Our combined space-time velocity vectors are equal to the speed of light at any given moment. Skip to 2:40 for relevant part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryper Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Here's one conundrum I see. If time and space are just illusions, and life evolved, and with it consciousness emerged from time, space, matter... but all those things are just illusions of the mind, which is the result (through emergence) from those things... It ends with that we, our consciousness is an illusion experienced by illusionary things that constructed by that very illusion... *Where's the headspinning smiley?* Either the world is real to some degree and our consciousness is the result of it. Or the world is an illusion of a real consciousness. How can both be illusions created by each other? When you start tapping on things and taking measurements, evidence suggests the world and our environments are real and our consciousness exists within and is defined by it. To a degree it's the other way around also, we can create environments to suit us and our beliefs by manipulating raw materials of the world to do that. Did we create that, or just build it? There's the possibility they're integral, working together as components of a greater system. Evidence does not readily support the notion that we create our own natural environment through potency of consciousness. Dude, that is so what the bleep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Yah, I hope I didn't crash the topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryper Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 I was actually referencing thishttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioONhpIJ-NY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Babylonian Dream Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 I was actually referencing this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioONhpIJ-NY I got the reference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 I got the reference. And here we thought you didn't know *bleep*. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryper Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 with a well timed bleep you can make anything sound dirty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Babylonian Dream Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 I got the reference. And here we thought you didn't know *bleep*. Fuck you then! Think I'm stupid!?!?!?!?! *pulls Ouroboros's finger* with a well timed bleep you can make anything sound dirty. True. But no really, I actually did get the movie reference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryper Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 I got that BD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 I missed the reference. 'What the bleep' is what people usually say when I start writing. I had that Bleep film in mind, it's been a few years. Similar to The Secret if I remember, its pace and delivery and style, possibly some of the same characters (interviewees)? I'll look again. I have arguments with some of the claims, multiple realities for example. I would like to hear more discussion about the nature of evidence for multiple realities. Where's the data to confirm it? What would you even confirm? Help? I've been thinking about this subject now and drawing. It looks like the best way to describe the "moment" common to all as it moves along an axis or axes is via division by zero. With that you can set up a sturdy models and framework for everything as nature dictates. It is a singularity. That dark flow thing is interesting. I didn't know about that. It does confirm my observations, which is exciting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 The succession of nows I think just refers to memories of what was. The memory of the past exists in your head but it doesn't have the quality of living presence that right now has. There probably isnt a 'now' either, just timeless awareness.True. There's no "pure" now. I've read too many books on non-duality discussing time, space and reality. They could all be baloney. :-) Time certainly is useful on planet earth. So is language. Yet, words are only a symbolic representation of something and not the particular something itself. Maybe time is like that as well. An abstraction or an explanation of why it hurts when I try to straighten back up after bending over. It's cuz I'm old. :-)No, what sucks is that if there's no real time, that means that there's never a good time for beer, and I just have to strongly disagree to such a notion... "If time included the past and future, then time wouldn't be something we could experience since the now would always be all-times and never a unique time." - After watching the "Through the Wormhole" video I sorta wonder if time is really just a never ending succession of switching to a new universe within an infinite multiverse. Maybe last Tuesday at 9 am does exist somewhere and maybe it can be relived. Maybe not. :-)I think that's what the quantum multiverse (or whatever they call it this year) is about. But I did read something, somewhere (at some time... or not?) that some recent research, macro flow, dark flow, can't remember what it was called, or rather the lack of it, pointed to just one single universe and not a multiverse. Whatever. Who knows... or nows? The part of the video about the two clocks and how one lost accuracy after being lifted 12 inches was really cool. Doppler effect has also fascinated me in that it shows time is not absolute. Great stuff!Sure. I really never had a problem with relativity. But what confuses me is that if time is an illusion and not real, how can relativity be real? That should be just an illusion too. If nothing is real but everything is just an illusion of nothing, then perhaps that explains how something came out of nothing. Simply because it's still nothing, there is no something. Yer makin mah brain hurt... lolz.. You win. haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 Yer makin mah brain hurt... lolz.. You win. hahaI think the Universe won. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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