Guest r3alchild Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 One question about christianity that has been the most upsetting for me is, why do many christians get better in their lifes for believing in a delusion? It seems so unfair that people who believe in things that don't exist progress evermore in life, but when I don't believe in any of that christian bullshit I always end up stuck at the starting gate. I have found that christians who get better for their delusion in god are the hardest to convince away from god. Since for them getting better in their life means that they are on the right track and can't possibly be wrong about what they experience. This kind of circular reasoning they hold onto has confused me to no end and I still have no answer to why many christians still get better for a delusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boftx Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Why should it matter if they "get better"? It could be something like auto-suggestion or a placebo effect. There really isn't any reason to try to convince them they are wrong unless such a person becomes intent on "sharing" this experience with others by means of force (i.e. the law) or some other means of being obnoxious. If that occurs then the goal is not to convince them that their beliefs are wrong so much as to convince them that they do NOT have the right to impose that belief on someone else who doesn't want it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenstar Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 People get better in many systems... A.A. is a great example, and although has the word 'god' in it's philosophy doesn't require an actual belief in a deity. It has saved many thousands of lives. People get better by following the Maharishi and doing T.M., or subscribing to Tony Robbins seminars.. (he's actually pretty good) People get better by watching Dr. Oz, or reading Leo Buscaglia, or healing with crystals, or going to a voodoo witch doctor, or dancing naked in a pagan circle or.. well, the list is endless. People need direction... they need positive thinking and hope, they need to BELIEVE they can change and a lot of them do NOT believe in themselves enough to do it on their own...they need to think that the change comes from an outside source, and maybe that's okay - there are hundreds of systems out there that people can utilize for - what I call now - personal development. I've studied human psychology (as a lay person) for most of my life and I've noticed a few things... any psychologist will tell you this too... it all comes from within... all the therapy, drugs, beliefs, techniques.. it's all useless unless the person WANTS to change.. or even believes it's possible to change/heal (there are a few exceptions such as serious chemical or brain biological problems which require medication) and the actual change comes from themselves. Most just don't know this.. and it kind of pisses me off when that TRUTH is clouded and twisted and the credit is given to some outside source (ie: a deity). We are AMAZINGLY adaptable creatures... and even in medicine it's acknowledged that healing is mostly done by the body itself.. the docs just give it a chance to work and maybe a little boost (removing a diseased part, or medicating something so the immune and repair system can do what it does) This follows with mental and psychological ills as well... the mind and 'spirit', for lack of a better term, is always seeking balance - equilibrium... and given the right channels will find it. Unfortunately... I think the perception that christians 'get better' is a bit exaggerated... I've noticed a serious lack of real morality in christians, and also a lack of mental health - they seem predisposed to being very dysfunctional. Maybe that's just the kind of people christianity attracts.. or maybe it actually contributes to it. (other patriarchal religions do this too) MAYBE christianity actually keeps psychopathy in check? I read webmdave's numerous postings about the xtians who are constantly being caught violating children and other nasty things.... they seem to outweigh the rest of the population in deviant behavior - of course that's my perception and there would have to be a study done to verify - but I think it's true. Think about the xtians who say that without their fear of god they would be rampaging all over the place, violating laws and harming others - the ones who can't comprehend that one can be moral without that fear. THAT is pure psychopathy.. it's the very definition of it. Psychopaths only understand one thing... POWER. It's the only thing that keeps them in check - they have no inner moral sense. The jury is still out on this but the evidence so far suggests that psychopaths for the most part are born that way. and what's more powerful than a GOD? There's also the peer pressure... we are pack animals and respond to the hierarchy and social structures of a pack.. when your 'pack' acts a certain way then you conform.. to remain in the pack.. it's an instinctive and deep sociological need in most people (I'm a lone wolf.. so don't respond much to that lol) if the pack mentality is not to do drugs, have indiscriminate sex or harm others.. well - that's what you do... so therefore you are a 'better' person - but it's still external - take away the pack and what would happen? Then there's is self-image.. the psyche DEMANDS that there be some sort of congruity between who you 'think' you are(the inner image of YOU) and your actionsand thoughts.. or you go crazy. This of course causes all sorts of psychological defense mechanisms when cognitive dissonance happens.. ie: belief in a god.. rationalization, projection, minimalization, dissociation, etc... the things we call neuroses and at more dysfunctional levels psychoses... we see it here all the time with the defense mechanisms and cognitive issues christians have defending their 'faith'. Finally is the fear of death... when you scratch the christians.. and listen carefully.. this is what a lot of it is based on... they are in ABJECT TERROR of death... whether that is physical or the death of the ego (identity) It's the cost of consciousness.. and we all have it to some degree. Becoming 'better' may be a way for them to convince themselves that their beliefs are correct and they really aren't ever going to die. Just a little theory I have... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raoul Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 In my younger days, smoking some weed produced indentical behavior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenstar Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 ^^^ in my younger days so did many other interesting substances Now I'd just be hungover for a week - feeling my age and then some, LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raoul Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 ^^^ in my younger days so did many other interesting substances Now I'd just be hungover for a week - feeling my age and then some, LOL I only wrote that to 'smoke' out (pun by accident) all of you former druggies over here. LOL 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
par4dcourse Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 I assume you mean getting better as in better all round person. The heaven/hell threat is a powerful control tool, with constant reminders from the clergy and the concerned flock. They think to themselves "better do something decent once in a while, god's keeping score." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipVanWinkle Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 It is indeed something that comes from within. Just think, if you really believed that a god was constantly watching over you and protecting you, and that you would live in eternal happiness, wouldn't that give you an advantage in life? bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenstar Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 naw.. it just made me anxious and paranoid 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted April 28, 2013 Super Moderator Share Posted April 28, 2013 It seems so unfair that people who believe in things that don't exist progress evermore in life, but when I don't believe in any of that christian bullshit I always end up stuck at the starting gate. What is your yardstick for "progress?" Obviously, you could be worse off and the majority of Christians around the world could be much better off. If progress is coming to accept your circumstances, that can be accomplished without Christianity, though many use the religion for that purpose. Both the believer and nonbeliever tend to realize their expectations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted April 29, 2013 Share Posted April 29, 2013 One question about christianity that has been the most upsetting for me is, why do many christians get better in their lifes for believing in a delusion? It seems so unfair that people who believe in things that don't exist progress evermore in life, but when I don't believe in any of that christian bullshit I always end up stuck at the starting gate. I have found that christians who get better for their delusion in god are the hardest to convince away from god. Since for them getting better in their life means that they are on the right track and can't possibly be wrong about what they experience. This kind of circular reasoning they hold onto has confused me to no end and I still have no answer to why many christians still get better for a delusion. Maybe Jesus [the belief] boosts their self confidence. Like [belief] in your lucky rabbit's foot might give you confidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted April 29, 2013 Share Posted April 29, 2013 In my younger days, smoking some weed produced indentical behavior. "Younger days." You were younger last week. Wink Wink. Don't worry, I won't tell anyone about your stash...haha j/k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burt_Lemur Posted April 29, 2013 Share Posted April 29, 2013 My father lived a good life, had a wonderful wife and great family. It would seem that being raised and living as a devout Catholic showered positive things upon him. When he knew that he was going to die, I was shocked to see his lifelong faith completely work against him. Instead of comfort, my father as he faced death could only seem to focus on his god's promised threat of making him suffer for all eternity for any missteps he had taken throughout his life. This saddened me as he was dying and I feel now that ultimately Christians are victims of their faith. At the end of their lives, the threat theology they have lived forces a reflection on anything they have done that may be seen as a wrongdoing by the monster in the sky who will send them to an eternity of suffering. Even if they don't vocalize it, I believe it is common for Christians to worry about this. What little thing did I do, what little moment in my life where I stole that candy bar at Walgreen's or daydreamed of licking the inner thighs of my neighbor's wife... How can I have any chance of making it to heaven when so many acts or thoughts fueled by basic human nature could be my ticket to hell? Christians may rejoice in their special place in heaven that awaits them, but how many of them are silently fearing the ultimate threat from their god? My father was as he was dying, and he wasn't silent about it. And as he died I came to believe that my father had been a victim of his faith in threat theology, as I now believe that all Christians are. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owen652 Posted April 29, 2013 Share Posted April 29, 2013 ^^^ in my younger days so did many other interesting substances Now I'd just be hungover for a week - feeling my age and then some, LOL I only wrote that to 'smoke' out (pun by accident) all of you former druggies over here. LOL I'm forty next month and i only just had my first taste of weed the other day. I smoked and smoked all night but it had absolutely no effect, until eventually it sort of did, but really was a bit of a letdown. My wife, however, who had also never tried it, got stoned off her face on the first puff.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts