God Knows Their Hearts

[Guest r3alchild]

 

 

 

And who will tell us homosexuality is not evil once evil has been redifined and how do we know who knows what evil is or is not once we redifine evil in its re defined way. No my friend we are just animals and there is no such thing as evil.

Evil? Its just a bullshit word

Well, not to put too fine a point on it, but at this point the evangelical would say something along the lines of "so if there's no evil, I can punch you in the face and take your wallet, and you have no right to complain."

Of course the evangelical would just be using this argument as a means to get you to believe in Jesus, which doesn't logically follow. But there is a seed of truth here: there are certain things that people in the civilized world (i.e. in non-Islamic nations) simply find offensive to our sensibilities. Murder, theft, etc. are things we can all agree are wrong. At the end of the day, we need to have some functional concept of evil in order to have a working society. If you wish to use a word other than evil, that's fine. Just be careful not to delve into moral relativism though. I honestly know people who say that good and evil are relative concepts, and who actually conclude that it's OK for Muslims to stone adulterers, put women in burqas, chop off hands for theft, and so forth. One need not believe in Jesus to know that our system of morality and ethics isn't just different, it's objectively better.

The means of defining objective good and evil needn't be based on God. And it certainly needn't be based on Jesus (Jesus is probably best left out of morality, actually). It can be based on utility. We've entertained certain concepts of morality for a long time, and they've served us well in most of the world, so we can call those concepts objectively good. What I'm saying is that even if you use a word other than evil, you'll end up retaining the idea of objective morality, because no one likes being mistreated.

Personally I don't believe there is good or evil, they are just labels we use to define our personal beliefs about the world and to segregate people from each other.

I still believe in good and evil as objective concepts, just like I believe there exists love, hate, happiness, sadness,etc. I don't know exactly where they come from. I just know they do not come from a god who says he is a god of love and justice, then sends people to burn in hell for being the wrong religion. That god would be worse in his actions than Hitler who sent people to be gassed because they are Jewish. What would make that god even worse is that he allowed Hitler to do those actions in the first place. If god had some great reason to do these things, for instance they would prevent an even greater harm, that may be justifiable. No theologian, however, has been able to give any good explanation for this and it kind of saddens me.

 

My closest guess to what "good" and "evil" objectively are is your conscience and sense of empathy. You don't hurt people because you feel compassion for them and know that if you were them, you would not want to be hurt too. Conscience and empathy are just being able to visualize yourself as someone else.

I am always open to have my opinions changed, I see what your saying. However ill say good and evil are not emotional states like love or anger or mental states like logic or irrationality. We use good and evil to decribe what people do with those states.

[Guest r3alchild]

 

Personally I don't believe there is good or evil, they are just labels we use to define our personal beliefs about the world and to segregate people from each other.

Well, I suppose we'll just have to respectfully disagree with one another on this one. I personally couldn't subscribe to a philosophy that precludes objective morality. For example, I believe that Jesus is objectively evil for teaching that people go to an eternal hell for failure to believe in him. But hey, if you end up acting in a way that most people consider "moral" without believing in the principle of morality, I can absolutely respect your right to not intellectually assent to that principle.

My closest guess to what "good" and "evil" objectively are is your conscience and sense of empathy. You don't hurt people because you feel compassion for them and know that if you were them, you would not want to be hurt too. Conscience and empathy are just being able to visualize yourself as someone else.

While conscience differs from person to person, I too have found human conscience to be an excellent means of approximately deducing objective good from objective evil.

I think when people stop personifying their ideas of good and evil society will start getting somwhere.

[◊ crazyguy123 ◊]

 

 

Personally I don't believe there is good or evil, they are just labels we use to define our personal beliefs about the world and to segregate people from each other.

Well, I suppose we'll just have to respectfully disagree with one another on this one. I personally couldn't subscribe to a philosophy that precludes objective morality. For example, I believe that Jesus is objectively evil for teaching that people go to an eternal hell for failure to believe in him. But hey, if you end up acting in a way that most people consider "moral" without believing in the principle of morality, I can absolutely respect your right to not intellectually assent to that principle.

My closest guess to what "good" and "evil" objectively are is your conscience and sense of empathy. You don't hurt people because you feel compassion for them and know that if you were them, you would not want to be hurt too. Conscience and empathy are just being able to visualize yourself as someone else.

While conscience differs from person to person, I too have found human conscience to be an excellent means of approximately deducing objective good from objective evil.

I think when people stop personifying their ideas of good and evil society will start getting somwhere.

 

 

Do you mean personifying in the form of gods (good) and demons (evil)?

[Guest r3alchild]

 

 

 

 

Personally I don't believe there is good or evil, they are just labels we use to define our personal beliefs about the world and to segregate people from each other.

Well, I suppose we'll just have to respectfully disagree with one another on this one. I personally couldn't subscribe to a philosophy that precludes objective morality. For example, I believe that Jesus is objectively evil for teaching that people go to an eternal hell for failure to believe in him. But hey, if you end up acting in a way that most people consider "moral" without believing in the principle of morality, I can absolutely respect your right to not intellectually assent to that principle.

My closest guess to what "good" and "evil" objectively are is your conscience and sense of empathy. You don't hurt people because you feel compassion for them and know that if you were them, you would not want to be hurt too. Conscience and empathy are just being able to visualize yourself as someone else.

While conscience differs from person to person, I too have found human conscience to be an excellent means of approximately deducing objective good from objective evil.

I think when people stop personifying their ideas of good and evil society will start getting somwhere.

Do you mean personifying in the form of gods (good) and demons (evil)?

Yeah and things like that. Like when the news states "he or she is pure evil" or "this is the face of true evil"

 

And then I say, oh really.

[◊ crazyguy123 ◊]

 

 

 

 

Personally I don't believe there is good or evil, they are just labels we use to define our personal beliefs about the world and to segregate people from each other.

Well, I suppose we'll just have to respectfully disagree with one another on this one. I personally couldn't subscribe to a philosophy that precludes objective morality. For example, I believe that Jesus is objectively evil for teaching that people go to an eternal hell for failure to believe in him. But hey, if you end up acting in a way that most people consider "moral" without believing in the principle of morality, I can absolutely respect your right to not intellectually assent to that principle.

My closest guess to what "good" and "evil" objectively are is your conscience and sense of empathy. You don't hurt people because you feel compassion for them and know that if you were them, you would not want to be hurt too. Conscience and empathy are just being able to visualize yourself as someone else.

While conscience differs from person to person, I too have found human conscience to be an excellent means of approximately deducing objective good from objective evil.

I think when people stop personifying their ideas of good and evil society will start getting somwhere.

Do you mean personifying in the form of gods (good) and demons (evil)?

Yeah and things like that. Like when the news states "he or she is pure evil" or "this is the face of true evil"

 

And then I say, oh really.

 

 

When people on the news say that a person has the face of pure evil, they are wrong if the person does not look like this:

[Guest r3alchild]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Personally I don't believe there is good or evil, they are just labels we use to define our personal beliefs about the world and to segregate people from each other.

Well, I suppose we'll just have to respectfully disagree with one another on this one. I personally couldn't subscribe to a philosophy that precludes objective morality. For example, I believe that Jesus is objectively evil for teaching that people go to an eternal hell for failure to believe in him. But hey, if you end up acting in a way that most people consider "moral" without believing in the principle of morality, I can absolutely respect your right to not intellectually assent to that principle.

My closest guess to what "good" and "evil" objectively are is your conscience and sense of empathy. You don't hurt people because you feel compassion for them and know that if you were them, you would not want to be hurt too. Conscience and empathy are just being able to visualize yourself as someone else.

While conscience differs from person to person, I too have found human conscience to be an excellent means of approximately deducing objective good from objective evil.

I think when people stop personifying their ideas of good and evil society will start getting somwhere.

Do you mean personifying in the form of gods (good) and demons (evil)?

Yeah and things like that. Like when the news states "he or she is pure evil" or "this is the face of true evil"

 

And then I say, oh really.

When people on the news say that a person has the face of pure evil, they are wrong if the person does not look like this:

Lol

[Bhim]

Yeah and things like that. Like when the news states "he or she is pure evil" or "this is the face of true evil"

 

And then I say, oh really.

I can certainly agree that the general public's moral outrage tends to appear dubious to me as well. But if I may use a recent example just to clarify, you sure you want to go on record as saying that this Ariel Castro figure is not "pure evil?" Because that would be a very unpopular stance to take.

 

In any case, your claim that individuals are not purely good or evil is completely separate from the claim that objective good and evil exist. Are you saying that there's no such thing as right and wrong? And if not, how do you answer the evangelical Christian when he asks you whether he can punch you in the face and take your wallet?

 

Before you respond by saying "if he does I'd punch him first," please bear in mind that a.) the question I'm asking is philsophical in nature and b.) evangelicals have a proclivity towards gun ownership...because the Biblical Jesus also glorified violence.

[Guest r3alchild]

Yes you can call someone pure evil if in fact you know what pure evil is.

 

And to your question about if its right for someone to punch me in the face and take my wallet.

 

A. No its not, but that does not mean that its a evil act because its not right.

 

Now ill ask a question, why do people believe a wrong action is evil and a right action is good.

[Guest ThereIsNoGod]

In light of all this you could well believe that if there is a God he is mega fucking with us.

[Guest r3alchild]

In light of all this you could well believe that if there is a God he is mega fucking with us.

If you think about it god is fucking with us, but purely from the minds, hearts and actions of other people.