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Evolution Is Not Science!?!?!?!?!?!?!


JamesG
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I was having a discussion with a Christian on why faith is not a good answer or reply to a question of evidence some how it weaved to someone mentioning that Christianity rejects science. The Christian responded saying that science in no way is rejected by Christianity I gave some examples like galileo being labeled a heretic evolution vs creationism etc. He went on to explain on evolution is not science Christianity accepts all valid science and evolution is a hinderance to good science. I was befuddled at this point in the discussion I didn't really feel like continuing because it had veered off topic to evolution. Have any of you encountered this? it caught me off guard a bit.

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And white is black and black is white.  That's what you must accept to believe the average Christian's perspective of Science (I'm still there trying to claw my way out of this abyss of scientific ignorance). 

 

Christianity has some verses to live by though... Like...  Don't throw your pearls before swine....  So yeah, you're doing that.  Stop doing that.

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And white is black and black is white.  That's what you must accept to believe the average Christian's perspective of Science (I'm still there trying to claw my way out of this abyss of scientific ignorance). 

 

Christianity has some verses to live by though... Like...  Don't throw your pearls before swine....  So yeah, you're doing that.  Stop doing that.

I must rebuke myself where is the whip!!!!!!!! 30 lashes

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So what qualifies as good science to him? Probably anything that supports the Bible. And whenever you are trying to get science to validate your agenda, it ceases to be good science, because you cannot be objective when science refutes your agenda.

 

Also, you might point out to him that there are a lot of Christians who actually believe in evolution and don't necessarily see it as a hindrance to faith. The Catholic church, for example, has gone on record affirming evolution. Also, there are organizations like BioLogos, founded by Francis Collins, the Christian scientist who mapped the human genome, who also embrace evolution.

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yeah forgot that the catholic church accepted it. Did you every see that debate with dawkins and Australian bishop when they bring up that issue in relation to original sin. I have never seen someone so dismantled before. From his facial expression it almost seemed like he had to rethink his life's work lol

 

I was so befuddled by his logic. I kinda just checked out of the conversation I guess I should have pressed him a bit more on the issue. At some point though if they are willing to defend and believe that logic. I just don't see the point. Hopefully I gave him some questions to think about and a series of these types of conversations might help him see the light I tried pointing him to the facts of evolution casiopia project on you tube but I doubt he would even bother educating himself.

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I was having a discussion with a Christian on why faith is not a good answer or reply to a question of evidence some how it weaved to someone mentioning that Christianity rejects science. The Christian responded saying that science in no way is rejected by Christianity I gave some examples like galileo being labeled a heretic evolution vs creationism etc. He went on to explain on evolution is not science Christianity accepts all valid science and evolution is a hinderance to good science. I was befuddled at this point in the discussion I didn't really feel like continuing because it had veered off topic to evolution. Have any of you encountered this? it caught me off guard a bit.

His understanding of what science is, and is not, seems different than that of most folks.  You might want to explore just this question with him, leaving religion completely out of it.

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To a True Christi morontheist science is whatever her cult führer says. Logic, truth, facts and the like have no part in that.

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Sure I've heard of this before.  Many Christians simply accept it as a foregone conclusion that "science" demonstrates that the earth is 6,000 years old and/or that species do not evolve.  There's a recent, famous example of a U.S. Congressman, Dr. Paul Broun (who is a trained physician) claiming that evolution and cosmlogy are "lies from the pit of hell."  While the vast majority of scientists and people trained in the sciences of course believe in these facts, a very large number of people in America are evangelical Christians, and therefore the number of people with science training who reject these facts, while small as a proportion, remain numerically quite large.  Evangelicals cling to these peoples' statements on evolution and cosmology as evidence that there is not a scientific consensus on the age of the universe and evolution of species.

 

However, it's been my personal observation that most Christians with scientific training who comment on these issues do not possess the relevant scientific training.  Back when I was a Christian and spent time on creationist websites, the advocates for creationism were usually engineers, not biologists or astrophysicists.  Take Dr. Broun, for example.  I'm sure he could give me valid advice on what medications I should/shouldn't take and how I should deal with any illness (though since I'm a pagan Hindu, maybe he'd just as well see me in hell).  But based on what I know of his education, nothing suggests he has any competence to comment on geological studies of the age of the earth, or astrophysical studies of the large-scale structure of the universe.  And since physicians have a fairly specialized biological training, I'm not sure he would be qualified to comment on evolution either.

 

This is not to say there isn't a smal number of actual biologists and cosmologists who believe in Christian creationism.  But most of the "scientists" Christians cite as evolution and cosmology deniers aren't in a position to question the accepted science.

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So what qualifies as good science to him? Probably anything that supports the Bible. And whenever you are trying to get science to validate your agenda, it ceases to be good science, because you cannot be objective when science refutes your agenda.

 

It ceases to be science at all. Even if the Christians turned out to be right and had all the correct views, their use of the scientific method is backward. They've started with a conclusion and made it a "law." A scientist forms a hypothesis and works to DISprove it, not look for ways to confirm what he's already set himself to believe. Faith is antithetical to science.

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the funny thing is how he was telling me how evolution is a philosophy based off of science and it distorts real science and is actually a hindrance to medical science. He went on to say evolution cause people to needlessly remove their tonsils and appendixes. he also said all the medical people he knows doesn't not believe in evolution lol I just slamed my face on the keyboard and rolled over it.

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the funny thing is how he was telling me how evolution is a philosophy based off of science and it distorts real science and is actually a hindrance to medical science. He went on to say evolution cause people to needlessly remove their tonsils and appendixes. he also said all the medical people he knows doesn't not believe in evolution lol I just slamed my face on the keyboard and rolled over it.

 

Heh, well a lot of physicians are Republicans because they want to save their money.  I don't know that there are a lot of them who deny evolution, though.

 

I could believe, though, that more physicians than scientists reject evolution simply by percentage.  Physicians are a lot like engineers.  Whereas scientists go into our profession because we like science and believe in the process, physicians and engineers are going into a field of skilled labor because it's a way of making a living.  And in both cases, that skilled labor requires a fair bit if scientific training.  Not that there's anything wrong with this, I'd bet that most people go into their professions simply to make money.  But to a medical doctor, the science is just a means to an end of performing their job functions, and scientific integrity may take a back seat to their personal faith.  Whereas even Christians in science tend to have a sense of intellectual integrity, a medical doctor may not be personally invested in the process of science, and may be more willing to believe in lies like creationism because it's what he learned at church.

 

I have no statistics on this.  But I could believe that your friend knows at least a couple of physicians and nurses who reject evolution.

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I don't know my dad is a doctor my mom is a nurse all of my dads nurses he has ever hired all believed in evolution in fact I don't know any medical personnel who don't believe in evolution. I mean to get there you have to go through quite a few biology courses I just don't see how you can be a successful physician and not believe in evolution. Oh wait I just found my answer successful...  As far as republicans go the neo-con Christian moral majority types I could totally see not believing in it but to call it not a science is just dumbfounding lol.  Just because conservative doctors want to save their hard earned cash doesn't mean they aren't completely blind to the bullshit.

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I don't know my dad is a doctor my mom is a nurse all of my dads nurses he has ever hired all believed in evolution in fact I don't know any medical personnel who don't believe in evolution. I mean to get there you have to go through quite a few biology courses I just don't see how you can be a successful physician and not believe in evolution. Oh wait I just found my answer successful...  As far as republicans go the neo-con Christian moral majority types I could totally see not believing in it but to call it not a science is just dumbfounding lol.  Just because conservative doctors want to save their hard earned cash doesn't mean they aren't completely blind to the bullshit.

Just a nitpick:  Scientific theories are explanations of a group of facts and are subject to falsification.  The biological theory of evolution is the best explanation of all available and relevant evidence.  It is not a matter of "belief".  

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I mean to get there you have to go through quite a few biology courses I just don't see how you can be a successful physician and not believe in evolution.

I don't know. I was successful as an astrophysicist before I left Christianity and ceased to believe that the Big Bang was evidence of the Biblical account of creation by the Christian god Jesus.  Granted, I was a so-called "old earth creationist" and what I believed was a far cry from what many evangelicals uphold as their model of creation.  But still, people are capable of a great deal of cognitive dissonance and compartmentalization.  Yes, education tends to help a great deal.  But you can be a successful physician, scientist, etc. and believe just about anything.  Practicing medicine, doing science, and so forth are matters of action, not belief.

 

And this is an important point.  Science isn't some sort of counterweight to Christianity, or Christianity's antithesis.  Christianity is about belief in a set of doctrines.  Science is a methodology.  That's why, unlike Christianity, it actually works.  We would do science a great disservice by offering it as an alternative to Christianity, and thereby turning science into a sort of secular religion.  One needn't believe in anything to be a scientist.  That is, after all, what makes it science.

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