Guest r3alchild Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 Last night after dinking most of a bottle of whiskey I start thinking about how nothing can change my immorality and I am either doomed to suffer with my wickedness or return to god. I then start thinking that if I return to god he will make it alright and save me from my immorality.This went back and forth for about an hour or so and I thought I was a goner. I was so amazed that this was happening to me again, I thought that I was over this shit. It was a real close call, to close for comfort. But I can see that hold over beliefs will take along time to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Margee Posted May 23, 2013 Moderator Share Posted May 23, 2013 r3, the world has created 'definitions' for all the 'words' in the world. We take those 'words' and make beliefs out of them. Then you are taught to 'buy into' what the world believes about those 'words'. Take selfish for example. I was taught that 'selfish' was 'bad'. It is generally known in the world as a 'bad' word. You now have the ability to take that word 'selfish' and change it to a new 'definition'. Your own definition. Just using that one word alone has helped me to see that 'selfish' is not a bad thing. Sometimes, one has to be 'selfish' to protect themselves. You can take any word you want and change the definition. Once you change the definition of the word - the belief changes. Does that make sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest r3alchild Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 Why did these christians do this margee. Why couldnt they just see another human being who was in serious trouble and just help that human being without trying to convert them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest r3alchild Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 And I do understand whay you mean by words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Margee Posted May 23, 2013 Moderator Share Posted May 23, 2013 Why did these christians do this margee. Why couldnt they just see another human being who was in serious trouble and just help that human being without trying to convert them. Because of their belief system hon. It is part of their beliefs. They are brainwashed. I was brainwashed. You were brainwashed. None of the doctrine needs to be part of yours anymore. (belief system) You figure out what is moral and immoral for yourself. The thing I think to always remember is that (to the best of your ability) nobody should get hurt when you are deciding what is right or wrong for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted May 23, 2013 Super Moderator Share Posted May 23, 2013 Large amounts of whiskey have been known to make people think and do stupid things. Don't blame yourself. The brainwashing will eventually go away, probably when you're sober. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest r3alchild Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 I been realizing I have no security blanket and its fucking with my head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted May 23, 2013 Super Moderator Share Posted May 23, 2013 Security from what? I think a psychological crutch that can substitute handily for the Christian religion might be a rabbit's foot. One day, you won't need the rabbit's foot, either. Be patient. We don't need magic, and even those who think they have the magic are no better off or different from us. Nothing has changed except your knowledge and understanding. That's a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenstar Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 It's kinda scary at first to realize that YOU are responsible for YOU. Freaked me the hell out at first. BUT then I realized that is what real freedom is... and owning my own personal power is the best thing in the world. Or as a biker friend of mine says.. if you can't do the time, don't do the crime. I look at the possibility of what the consequences of my behavior may be and choose the best path I can with the info I have.. in line with my inner sense of what's 'moral'.. or right, whatever. Once I realized that perfection is an unattainable and silly goal it was easier... the idea of perfection will paralyze you. We just do the best we can, with what we have. And that's good enough. I don't know where you get the idea that you are immoral... well maybe I do, but immorality is a dicey thing. I came to the conclusion that if I'm not hurting anyone (including myself - though there are caveats there) then it's not immoral... my morality is based on my value system.. honesty, kindness, integrity and realizing I'm human and sometimes I'm gonna fuck up and not always be able to follow that perfectly.. and this is where personal responsibility comes in... if I mess up and something I say or do hurts someone then it's my responsibility to make amends (make it right), pay the piper, forgive myself and do better next time. simple really... The truly immoral have no sense of their shortcomings and feel no guilt..or empathy... they are morally damaged and probably mentally ill. The rest of us are just imperfect humans trying to find our place and define ourselves. oh... and beating yourself up isn't productive, and whiskey makes everything BIGGER... lol. Security is an illusion...(and obviously a very american thing - this idea of safety being a right - life's not like that) we all live on the edge of a knife... and tomorrow may never come. Live in the moment and appreciate what's before you.. that's living. Just some thoughts... 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeCycle Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 Last night after dinking most of a bottle of whiskey I start thinking about how nothing can change my immorality and I am either doomed to suffer with my wickedness or return to god. I then start thinking that if I return to god he will make it alright and save me from my immorality.This went back and forth for about an hour or so and I thought I was a goner. I was so amazed that this was happening to me again, I thought that I was over this shit. It was a real close call, to close for comfort. But I can see that hold over beliefs will take along time to go. There is no god. Sounds like you still haven't realized this. Maybe nature is god, maybe the universe is god, maybe love is god. That biblical god is a myth. You're placing yourself in a living hell over fairy-tales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExXex Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 I found myself saying a bedtime prayer to God last night aha, old habits die hard. (I mean I was pretty sleepy and it used to be something I'd do every night so I was kinda on auto pilot but still...) But that's what they are, habits, you've made a habit of thinking only this supernatural being can save you from yourself. It'll take time to re-adjust from that. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralet Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 Write down what made you deconvert and what you believe now, so that you can remember everytime you relapse.for example i like to remind me of the thought " I don't believe in the bible, because it written by men and full of flaws. If I dont believe in some parts of it, I cant believe in any part of it (and a divine god wouldnt write an imperfect book),so if there is a god, there is no way I can find out what he wants me to do." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggie Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 r3alchild,I understand completely (first post here btw). I have "flashbacks" myself from time to time. I read in a biography of Gandhi that he thought fear was an immoral motive. I agree with that wholeheartedly. Fear, especially of the irrational sort, is a terrible grounds for making decisions; we should know that we're off base if that's what is driving us. What fundamentalism asks for is immoral. "Believe the dubious or an unverifiable but loving god will torture you forever." This is not sensible, just, or loving. Leo Tolstoy, a believer in (an atypical version of) God but ardently against any type of fundamentalism, wrote this on the immorality of "fundamentalist" faith. I like it... “Indeed no other faith has ever preached things so incompatible with reason and contemporary knowledge, or ideas so immoral as those taught by Church Christianity. This is without mentioning all the nonsense in the Old Testament, such as the creation of light before the sun, the creation of the world six thousand years ago, the housing of all animals in the ark, and all the various immoral atrocities such as the order to murder children and entire populations at God’s command. …There can be nothing as immoral as those dreadful teachings according to which an angry and vengeful God punishes everyone for the sin of Adam, or that he sent his son to earth to save us, knowing beforehand that men would murder him and be damned for it. Again it is absurd to suggest that man’s salvation from sin lies in baptism, or in believing that all these things actually happened, and that the son of God was killed in order to save people and that those who do not believe it will be punished by God with eternal torment.” 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggie Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 These short sayings from Diderot always help me out when I'm having a tough spell... http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/diderot/1770/religion.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 I been realizing I have no security blanket and its fucking with my head. Be your own security blanket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue elephant Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 I dunno quite what to say. There is a version of "morality" that is espoused by bible bashers, and then there is a much broader morality that is understood by almost all people (except for the sociopaths). It is all about not setting out to harm or take advantage of other people. The only philosophy that says that is not a good enough morality is Christianity. And why do they say that? It's a bit like an advertising campaign. They have to create a feeling of inadequacy so that you will consider their product! Having thought through the issues and decided that Christianity is bullshit, try to move as rapidly as you can in to another type of life where positive deeds and actions define who you are. Don't keep on lingering at the crossroads and worrying. You might want to start a chalk board in your mind of the things that you now know to be true about life. You will probably find they those things don't have much in common with Christian belief. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creative Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 Last night after dinking most of a bottle of whiskey I start thinking about how nothing can change my immorality and I am either doomed to suffer with my wickedness or return to god. I then start thinking that if I return to god he will make it alright and save me from my immorality.This went back and forth for about an hour or so and I thought I was a goner. I was so amazed that this was happening to me again, I thought that I was over this shit. It was a real close call, to close for comfort. But I can see that hold over beliefs will take along time to go. We all like phantasy as it helps us escape from reality. Some have a religion for that and others like to watch sifi movies or play world of warcraft We all need a timeout now and then since reality can suck a lot sometimes. Aldo we should motivate ourselfs to do something about it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 I been realizing I have no security blanket and its fucking with my head. Yes, sure. There are no magical, invisible beings looking out for you. That can be a shock if we were raised to rely on that idea. But it's not all bad. This means that you are a lot more powerful and resilient than you thought you were. Every crisis you ever got through in your entire life - your brain was what got you through it. The stuff that happened inside you that you attributed to God was all you. That means that if you practice at it then any time you need to you can create "The Peace That Passes All Understanding". I've done it as an atheist. Sure it wasn't magical anymore but the feeling was the same. Any time you want you can love others the way you though God was moving through you. These things are not magical but they can still be cool. It takes practice but if you did it as a Christian then you can do it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest r3alchild Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 I been realizing I have no security blanket and its fucking with my head. Yes, sure. There are no magical, invisible beings looking out for you. That can be a shock if we were raised to rely on that idea. But it's not all bad. This means that you are a lot more powerful and resilient than you thought you were. Every crisis you ever got through in your entire life - your brain was what got you through it. The stuff that happened inside you that you attributed to God was all you. That means that if you practice at it then any time you need to you can create "The Peace That Passes All Understanding". I've done it as an atheist. Sure it wasn't magical anymore but the feeling was the same. Any time you want you can love others the way you though God was moving through you. These things are not magical but they can still be cool. It takes practice but if you did it as a Christian then you can do it again.I just had a mini break down before I read this post and realized that many people are just plain muggles but not as many as the true magical types. I was invoking god at the end but then the spell ended and I could see who was invoking who. A big part of my faith mind is now gone and so is the pain that came along with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipVanWinkle Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 You said: "It was a real close call. Too close for comfort." I take that to mean you almost convinced yourself to reconvert. But no, you didn't. You see, you already know too much. Xtianity will never satisfy you again, if it ever did. Aggie used the word "flashback". I think that describes your experience well. In another post I described my flashbacks as merely a sign of my own insecurity. I would have them so matter what I believe. It's how I am wired. Just recognize them for what they are. And keep up your rational thinking. bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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