Need Help - Seriously

[Open_Minded]

As many of you know, I was not raised in a literalistic way.

 

What does this sentence mean? Are you reffering to the Bible?

 

Good luck with her, by the way.

 

Yes... sorry I didn't expand...

 

My father exposed all of us children to the Bible as literature, archealogical context, etc.. from the time I was about 12/13 years old.

 

My parents were liberals and so I've no context when it comes to fundy religions. The closest I get is the Catholic schools I grew up in and my conservative extended Catholic family. But Mom and Dad left the Catholic church when I was an early teen and I escaped much of that crap. I saw its impact on cousins and other relatives, but have no personal experiences.

[Mythra]

You know that any possible help is going to be dependent upon how deeply intrenched the fundy mindset already is within this teen. If she has already basically accepted it, she won't read anything you provide, or else she'll be distrustful to the point that she will take it to her youth pastor for approval before reading it.

 

One of the things that caused my final break from religion was seeing what it was doing to the youth in my church. We had kids that thought they were possessed by demons. Kids that were so obsesssed with eternal insecurity that they could think of little else. Kids that were being indoctrinated into the mindset that every single thought had to be examined to determine if it was of God or Satan. Kids struggling to reconcile hormones with strict religious taboos.

 

Sad, really.

 

If she is at this point, all you can hope to do is plant a seed. Like the suggestion that she not be afraid to question something, when it doesn't sound right to her. And, let her know that you are always there to talk.

Perhaps someday she'll get disillusioned. That's the point where you can step in and help.

[Joyous1]

See if you can borrow the video "The Wave" from your local library. I think it was originally an "ABC After School Special" in 1981/82, and I think you can only purchase it at socialstudies.com ($84). It is based on the true story of a high school teacher who wanted to teach his class a lesson about mind control, but his "experiment" went too far and left his students traumatized. The Emmy award winning movie is still used in classrooms today, and is often recommended viewing for adults recovering from cults.

 

The actors are very innocent-looking, a typical after-school special, which makes the developments all the more chilling to watch as this teacher leads his students down a cult path and exerts his control over them. As I recall there was no physical or sexual abuse involved, only mental, this also makes it terrifying in a psychological way. You get to see how easy it is for an adult to manipulate and brainwash otherwise bright and capable kids, and how damaging it is to the kids even when no physical abuse is involved.

 

You could watch it with your daughter and her friend, make some popcorn and have a discussion afterward.

[loves_learning]

It has taken a bit to get back...finals week. BLECH.

 

 

2. I agree with all of you who have expressed concerns about her needing professional help and will do my best to make sure she gets it. But the situation is complicated by the fact that we live in a small community and her father works at the school. Her mother works at a well known business in town. In other words - everyone in town knows the family. From what my daughter is telling me, this dynamic is adding to the girl's concerns about reaching out for help.

 

Hesitent, and others, you've mentioned the possibility that I may have to call in child protective services. This is on my mind a lot. I've not made any promises yet, and will try not to. But here are the facts of the situation. Given these facts, as I know them right now, I believe it is possible for her to make it until 18 years of age. I will do my best to earn her trust without making promises I can't keep.

 

 

Her parents do not physically abuse her

Her main support base is friendships at school, if I called in child and family services she would be removed from this support system.

She is always welcome in this home - so she has a place to escape to if she can't take her home environment.

She really does love her parents and does not want to cause them pain.

 

This is tough...and has several potential solutions/outcomes. It depends on the school and the personality of her parents, as well as how bad of drinkers they REALLY are. Scenario 1: The girl tells the school counselor, if her dad is a teacher there and the administration is supportive of him, perhaps the administration will recommend that the whole family get counseling together and work on their problems. Scenario 2: This recently happened to a good friend's father...Her dad has been a teacher in the high school we went to for 20 years or so. He was a very well respected teacher, but the head of the department that he taught in did not like him. He became an alcoholic (non-abusive) when my friend was in high school, and continually got worse, so much so that he HAD to drink, was physically dependent on it. Obviously, he would drink in the mornings before school just to function. Well, make a long story short, the head of the department ratted him out b/c she smelled alcohol on his breath, the administration stepped into the classroom while he was teaching, removed him, and he was never allowed back in. Fired. NO support, NO questions. This is in a fairly wealthy suburban white district, too...lots of conservative people.

 

To be honest, unless her parents are abusive and the neglect is VERY VERY bad, I seriously doubt that the girl will be removed from the home. In fact, I doubt that they would even get involved. Unless there is a serious threat, the CFS has enough stuff to worry about and won't mess with it. I don't think they would be much help. The girl has food, right? Clothes? Can take care of the things that aren't directly provided to her? You said she isn't being abused...she's just feeling very alone, I would imagine.

 

As far as alcoholism and the effect on trusting adults...lots of issues. Depends on her personality. I'm a smart ass, and my reaction was basically that just because one is an adult doesn't mean that they know anything more than I did. Perfect example was my father, he was (and STILL is) a completely immature asshole who should have never been allowed to reproduce. I was very resentful of my mother too, she wasn't an alcoholic, but wouldn't leave my dad b/c she was afraid. I have gotten over the resentment, but my mom is still pretty damn messed up, despite the fact that she finally divorced him in 2003. I honestly didn't like many adults, because adults can be really mean to kids. I said before, I was pretty messed up for awhile, and did some things that I regret now, but nothing that serious. Nothing I ever got in trouble with the law for, and like I said, I was always a good student and involved in school. But the parents of the friends I had didn't want me to hang around their kid, or thought I was slutty and didn't want their sons to be involved with me (even when it was their sons preying on ME...they could never imagine that their OWN kids could do anything wrong). Even some of my teachers were awful...they could SEE and see PLAINLY that I had some major issues, but instead of talking to me about it one on one, they talked about me behind my back to other kids...and one girl in particular who was jealous of me and talked all kinds of dirt on me. They were mean, in other words...so no. I didn't trust adults...but it was a learned behavior. I desperately wanted to...DESPERATELY was looking for a role model and someone I could talk to. It just won't be easy for you to break through to this girl...

 

Okay...that was long, but I hope it helped.

[Open_Minded]

Hello Everyone:

 

Just a quick update.

 

1. Thank you for all your advice and support - it is appreciated more than you know.

 

2. I've had a few days to really research all of your book suggestions. I have ordered, The Age of Reason, Wisdom Hunter and Toxic Faith from my local bookstore. I already have Lord of the Rings. It would be overwhelming to dump all the books on her at once. So, they'll go on my bookcase and I'll suggest them to her as it is appropriate.

 

3. The suggestions for alateen have been very helpful and led me to several websites I can share with my daughter. Then my daughter can share them with her friend... so thanks for these suggestions. Again - if anyone knows of a teen forum out there, moderated by adults and designed to help teens deal with dysfunctional families, I'd love to get the web address.

 

4. Other website suggestions have also been helpful and I've shared many of them with my daughter.

 

5. Mythra, your observations about how intrenched she is in this fundy group are right on target. It's something I've been worried about for months. But, I think there is a chance. The first time she and I had a conversation about religion was when she asked me about being "saved". It's a long story - but my liberal books are all over the house, I'm known (in our small community) for being involved in interfaith dialog and contemplative Christianity. There have been several articles in the local paper about the work we do, and my name appears in those articles.

 

Well the long and short of it is that this young woman chose a time when all the other girls were occupied with something else to ask me how I thought people "got saved". In our conversation it came out that she had been really struggling with some things she'd been told at this local youth group about "being saved". So... I took the book If Grace Is True : Why God Will Save Every Person off my shelf and gave it to her to read.

 

She still has the book and tells me she reads parts of it and the journals about it. This book and our conversation around the book has given her permission to discuss other things with me. She generally initiates discussions, they're short and sweet because usually the discussions are in the context of other teen girls moving in and out of the room. But any rate this dynamic is leading me to believe she is NOT telling her youth minister everything. Given my own name recoginition in town as it relates to interfaith dialog and contemplative Christianity, I can't believe for one moment that her Youth pastor would approve.

 

Mythra your observations about kids thinking they were possessed by demons hit home. That is what this young girl is dealing with. It is quite sick. She has asked me about this thought process more often than anything else. As I said earlier, I posted this thread in the Rant area because I truly would love to go on a rant about this fundy group and youth pastor. But it would do little good. Right now I just have to find as much information as I can to help this girl.

 

5. For all of you who suggested the more straight-forward approach... an example post follows

 

Tell that poor girl she can be anything she wants to be, and she is stronger than she realizes. You tell her the opposite of what that cunt pastor is filling her head with! People are prone to suicide when they are told they are worthless, helpless, weak, and unable to do anything for themselves without help from an imaginary friend. If you work on getting her to start seeing she is able to do what she sets her mind to, she will reject that filthy advocate of the church.

 

Trust me, I'd love to. I'd love to sit this child down and tell her how arrogant this youth pastor is and how she should run from him the way you would run from hell itself, and that if demons are in her life at all it is through this man and this church. But, as I said, ranting will accomplish nothing right now.

 

But, you bet, anytime I get the chance I tell her - and all the other teens in our home - how capable and bright and talented they are, and how they can do anything they set their mind to.

 

Thanks again, I'll just keep working on the problem. She'll be getting a book, or two, for Christmas and if she does get to the point where she can trust me enough to pour her heart out, I'll let you know.

[Cerise]

I used to collect little scraps of poetry made by people about spiritual abuse, or by people who had been spiritually abused. Used to help alomst as much as making my own. You might want to suggest she get a scrapbook to paste in inspirational messages or things she reads that really strike home, so she can come back to them later when things are more confused or restrictive.

[LloydDobler]

One thing I want to add, completely unrelated to how to help her. In your zeal to help her, do not open yourself up to attacks by those who want to control and hurt her.

 

When you talk to her, do not spend time with her alone, always have your daughter, wife, or someone else with you.

 

You want to do as much as possible to sheild yourself from accusations of brainwashing or sexual misconduct as well. Any closed door meetings will look bad in the event that someone doesn't like what you're doing and decides to get down and dirty with nasty lies. Don't believe for one second that a manipulative youth pastor won't lie to get what he wants, in Jesus' name.

 

The worst thing I can imagine in this situation is losing your own family and credibility because you tried to help someone. Be smart about how you help her. You may ruffle feathers in ways you didn't expect.

[Open_Minded]

One thing I want to add, completely unrelated to how to help her. In your zeal to help her, do not open yourself up to attacks by those who want to control and hurt her.

 

When you talk to her, do not spend time with her alone, always have your daughter, wife, or someone else with you.

 

You want to do as much as possible to sheild yourself from accusations of brainwashing or sexual misconduct as well. Any closed door meetings will look bad in the event that someone doesn't like what you're doing and decides to get down and dirty with nasty lies. Don't believe for one second that a manipulative youth pastor won't lie to get what he wants, in Jesus' name.

 

The worst thing I can imagine in this situation is losing your own family and credibility because you tried to help someone. Be smart about how you help her. You may ruffle feathers in ways you didn't expect.

 

Sad.... but true

 

And something I've already thought of - and will keep in mind. Thanks for reminding me though. As I've said earlier - I've no first hand experience with these types of personalities. So, I'm never sure if my own concerns are valid. You addressing a concern I've already felt, really does cause me to be aware of this issue on another level.

 

Not only do I want to protect myself and my family - but this girl doesn't need any rumoring about her either

[SkepticOfBible]

May I suggest Stephen Arterburn and Jack Felton's Toxic Faith for a starter?

 

The book is written by Christians for Christians in order to outline the difference between an abusive relationship with God and a healthy relationship.

 

Also "Tired of Trying To Measure Up" by Jeff VanVonderen is a good read for someone who isn't ready to break free of faith, just the controlling, joyless, expectations of those in the faith.

 

I was gonna suggest Christian Help books, reason being that secular books would not do any good at this point of time, because if she is part of cult, then most likely they are thinking in terms of black and white, ie all secular knowledge is evil.

 

She is more liable to trust Christian themed books than secular ones. Also she would be more willing to trade a more toned form of christianity than atheistic one.

 

Another thing would be good to do will to post this in christian forums. For all you they might come with a far better solution then we do

[Levi]

I just ask that you continue to support her. If things get any worser than

consult a general practitioner for medical advice mentally. I have had a friend who

lived in our home later commit suicide because of a woman.

 

Find out the main cause of it and then support the issue by -

 

distracting her through taking her out to sports matches, hockey events,

Ten pin bolling, family gatherings (to socialize) or

a fun park/circus.

 

??

 

[Open_Minded]

Just a quick update before we leave on a Christmas trip.

 

I've received a few PMs wondering how this girl is doing. First thank you for asking, it's good to know she's in your hearts and on your minds.

 

We gave her two books for Christmas. One book really clicked with her, it's a pretty easy read. Just short meditations around the Serenity Prayer. I found it when I was looking for books to help teens living in a codependent situation.

 

When she opened the books she immediately started reading through the Serenity Prayer book - tears were in her eyes when she thanked us The gift came with a card and note - telling her how special and bright she is and that if she ever needed to talk she could come to us. That we would be here for her.

 

She'll be with extended family for the holiday weekend, and with some casual questioning I was able to determine that she enjoys that side of the family and feels happy and at home with them. So, I won't worry about her over the school break.

 

All in all - I know this is going to take time. It is not easy earning a teen's trust, especially in circumstances such as this. Please know that your help is very appreciated. I've read through this thread many times, just so that I can learn as much as possible. I've made notes of all your suggestions, books, websites, etc..

 

I don't intend to give up on her... but I am also realistic about earning her trust. She does come to me and ask questions ... and that tells me something. My daughter is talking to her about getting professional help and talking with me in more depth about the situation. But, those of you who have been there know there is only so much we can do at the risk of pushing her away.

 

So, we take it one day at a time..... I don't think she is in immediate danger of doing something and I know - from experience - that if she is having a bad time she will call my daughter.

 

Again, thank you. Your support is appreciated.