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Free Your Mind?


Guest r3alchild
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Guest r3alchild

After being subjected to another reconversion attempt by my old cult mind set, I am starting to see that deconversion is a slow and difficult process. It is a process that is dependant on full consent from the subject or the process will fail.

 

As morpheus said to neo, "We have a rule...we never free a mind once it reaches a certain age. It's dangerous, and the mind has trouble letting go."

 

I fully agree with this statement, that it just might be better leaving many people in their delusion, unless they really start questioning the reality of their faith. Because forcing people to think freely when they have been institutionalised for so long, is what morpheus said "Dangerous" and more for them than for us.

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Interesting point. I deconverted last year at age 56. I have often thought about this very delimma as I consider some of my Christian peers. How would they ever deal with the fall out and the shock to their emotional system and relationships, especially those employed in the myth business.

 

I think a first step to discuss this would be to define the "danger" and then consider those dangers against living institutionalized.

 

My deconversion took real effort. It was a shock to all my "systems". I still hope to have 20 or so years of life to enjoy the results of this more free and reasonable life but I have often wondered if I had reached a very advanced age as a believer would I just ignore the doubts and continue the delusion. Actually I usually conclude that my mind, if still lucid, would not let me. I would have to follow to freedom, and then die. In peace. Dangers or not.

 

A final thought is that belief being non-voluntary means we dive in dangers and all and begin the ride of our lives. Forums like this one do help me deal with the dangers however. I visit it daily.

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my deconversion snowballed. it started as an accident and it got better and better and scarier as I was intrigued by what Iwas learning. So it was me doing the driving and comforting on my own.

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After being subjected to another reconversion attempt by my old cult mind set, I am starting to see that deconversion is a slow and difficult process. It is a process that is dependant on full consent from the subject or the process will fail.

 

As morpheus said to neo, "We have a rule...we never free a mind once it reaches a certain age. It's dangerous, and the mind has trouble letting go."

 

I fully agree with this statement, that it just might be better leaving many people in their delusion, unless they really start questioning the reality of their faith. Because forcing people to think freely when they have been institutionalised for so long, is what morpheus said "Dangerous" and more for them than for us.

 

Unlike Morpheus, whether to "free a mind" from Christianity is not our choice as it relates to others.  It is their choice and we have neither the ability to free their minds nor to prevent them from freeing their minds.  The information anyone needs to discover that Christianity is false is there for all to see, even if all they ever see is their Bible since the Bible contains the seeds of every deconversion.  It is all a matter of whether the individual is up to the task of coming to terms with what is there for them to see.

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Guest r3alchild

 

 

After being subjected to another reconversion attempt by my old cult mind set, I am starting to see that deconversion is a slow and difficult process. It is a process that is dependant on full consent from the subject or the process will fail.

 

As morpheus said to neo, "We have a rule...we never free a mind once it reaches a certain age. It's dangerous, and the mind has trouble letting go."

 

I fully agree with this statement, that it just might be better leaving many people in their delusion, unless they really start questioning the reality of their faith. Because forcing people to think freely when they have been institutionalised for so long, is what morpheus said "Dangerous" and more for them than for us.

Unlike Morpheus, whether to "free a mind" from Christianity is not our choice as it relates to others. It is their choice and we have neither the ability to free their minds nor to prevent them from freeing their minds. The information anyone needs to discover that Christianity is false is there for all to see, even if all they ever see is their Bible since the Bible contains the seeds of every deconversion. It is all a matter of whether the individual is up to the task of coming to terms with what is there for them to see.

Like morpheus said

 

"I'm trying to free your mind, Neo. But I can only show you the door. You're the one that has to walk through it."

 

I believe true freedom comes from yourself. (That was the whole message of the matrix movie)

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I believe true freedom comes from yourself. (That was the whole message of the matrix movie)

 

 

With one slight distinction.  In the movie, it was Morpheus who chose the individuals to whom to offer the freedom.  We are not able to choose those individuals because they must choose themselves.

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Guest r3alchild

 

I believe true freedom comes from yourself. (That was the whole message of the matrix movie)

 

With one slight distinction. In the movie, it was Morpheus who chose the individuals to whom to offer the freedom. We are not able to choose those individuals because they must choose themselves.

Ah my grasshopper how can one choose themselves if there is no one to show them the way.

 

And you say

 

But then who freed the first person if they were all slaves?

 

And then I say

 

Because there will always be one person who is born free.

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I'll use myself as an example.  No person came to me and said Christianity is a false religion.  Rather, over the years I began to notice things in the Bible that did not make sense.  I thought about those things for many years until finally I was able and willing to begin asking myself, not others, the hard questions.  Once I asked myself those questions and studied the Bible, not the works of others, for answers, I found that there were no answers.

 

Obviously, others have differing experiences, but for me there was no Morpheus.

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I have to disagree with  the great prophet Morpheus and say its not age its a persons willingness. Truth has a funny way of nagging at us no matter the age. You are right though it is not easy and your mind is trying to hold on to the world it knew to be true. How long will your past life creep up? well that's all up to your biology you probably don't even have a choice in the matter your mind is treating an atheistic worldview like an infection and is going to try and push that infection out. The more you believed the strong your mind will push because your trying to replace known realities. If you believed in god and hell and heaven its a tough pill to swallow that the world as you know it ceases to exist or never existed in the first place. However, some minds are more flexible than others so if someone is asking you the questions no matter their age they are probably searching in a sub-conscious way the only thing you can do is give an honest answer to the questions asked.

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It's also a matter of internal wiring I think. Thinking "outside the box" and questioning "facts" starts young (I see it in one of my grandsons) and even if repressed by dogma will re-emerge. Those willing and happy to conform seldom escape.

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Guest r3alchild

Lets me add to the op down here, don't take what I said to literally! I am just creating refrences to abstract ideas to help people and myself deconvert.

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It's ironic that when I was a christian, after I began to have some doubts, they grew and grew until I

could no longer ignore them. Then I deconverted and doubts started as to whether deconversion was right.

But the difference is (and this is the key) I can now rely on reason and logic to pull me away from those illogical doubts and see them for what they are: My own insecurity. I am doubting myself and would do so no matter what I believed to one degree or another. bill

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Guest r3alchild

It's ironic that when I was a christian, after I began to have some doubts, they grew and grew until I

could no longer ignore them. Then I deconverted and doubts started as to whether deconversion was right.

But the difference is (and this is the key) I can now rely on reason and logic to pull me away from those illogical doubts and see them for what they are: My own insecurity. I am doubting myself and would do so no matter what I believed to one degree or another. bill

I was thinking that same thought 3 hours ago. Think about what that means.... When christians try to convince you that its the devil thats giving you those doubts to leave god. Then who is giving you those doubts to return to god, the devil? Can you see the logical fallacy.
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I'll use myself as an example.  No person came to me and said Christianity is a false religion.  Rather, over the years I began to notice things in the Bible that did not make sense.  I thought about those things for many years until finally I was able and willing to begin asking myself, not others, the hard questions.  Once I asked myself those questions and studied the Bible, not the works of others, for answers, I found that there were no answers.

 

Obviously, others have differing experiences, but for me there was no Morpheus.

 

My experiences are more like this, too. In fact, my deconversion process as a whole probably took almost 20 years. 

 

Unlike the conversion Born Again stories, where we feel inferior if we don't have that specific experience that everyone talks about, here it's okay to muddle through these questions in ways that make sense to us as individuals. For instance, in celebration of Douglas Adams, I was reading a bunch of his quotes, and this one was just brilliant, and reminded me about how we don't need to attribute things to "God" in order for them to be profoundly moving:

 

There is a moment in every dawn when light floats, there is the possibility of magic. Creation holds its breath.

 

 

(I'm also glad for a chance to read others' thoughts right now, because the past few days have been fraught with some bad backsliding for me into the mindset of "God is going to punish me for ___!")

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Of course, the devil is a figment of their imagination, unproved and unproveable. Reason and logic are

not.They are real. But if there were a devil that's what he would want to do: Send us back to his

partner, the Biblical god. bill

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Guest r3alchild

 

 

I'll use myself as an example. No person came to me and said Christianity is a false religion. Rather, over the years I began to notice things in the Bible that did not make sense. I thought about those things for many years until finally I was able and willing to begin asking myself, not others, the hard questions. Once I asked myself those questions and studied the Bible, not the works of others, for answers, I found that there were no answers.

 

Obviously, others have differing experiences, but for me there was no Morpheus.

My experiences are more like this, too. In fact, my deconversion process as a whole probably took almost 20 years.

 

Unlike the conversion Born Again stories, where we feel inferior if we don't have that specific experience that everyone talks about, here it's okay to muddle through these questions in ways that make sense to us as individuals. For instance, in celebration of Douglas Adams, I was reading a bunch of his quotes, and this one was just brilliant, and reminded me about how we don't need to attribute things to "God" in order for them to be profoundly moving:

 

There is a moment in every dawn when light floats, there is the possibility of magic. Creation holds its breath.

 

 

(I'm also glad for a chance to read others' thoughts right now, because the past few days have been fraught with some bad backsliding for me into the mindset of "God is going to punish me for ___!")

Fuck man did you also say 20 years in deconversion and religious shit is still twisting your giblets. :(
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