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Goodbye Jesus

Selling Soul To The Devil.


Hunter93

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It's all vague!  There are no strait forward instructions on this because the Bible constantly contradicts itself.  Likewise theology from the various Christian sects contradict each other.  It's all mixed messages and interpretation.  What is the unforgivable sin?  Nobody knows because the Bible didn't define it!  Imagine that.  It's so important that the Bible didn't bother to spell it out.

 

If salvation really was as important as Christians make out and God really loved us the way Christians say then there would be a single explanation with no contradiction.   

 

Look at that and think about what it means.

 

The whole thing is made up nonsense.

 

It's a house of cards.

 

It's a scam.

 

Fake.

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From the Christian viewpoint, this is actually impossible or so it seems. Ezekiel 18:4 says that all souls belong to God.

 

Of course, the fear won't go away that easily. Especially as a de-convert.

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I said that kind of stuff out loud but not with the intention of actually doing it. I said it somewhat like this, "Satan, in the name of God, I did not say this or this to you", etc. But I feel like it was a mistake.

 

My biggest fear is still that I don't have much time left.

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I said that kind of stuff out loud but not with the intention of actually doing it. I said it somewhat like this, "Satan, in the name of God, I did not say this or this to you", etc. But I feel like it was a mistake.

 

My biggest fear is still that I don't have much time left.

 

I'm not a doctor (and this is the internet) so obviously I would not be qualified to do any diagnosing. That said, I do/DID suffer from pretty major OCD awhile back for several years.  Also, relating to OCD was scrupulosity, which is basically religious OCD in laymen's terms. Which kind of sounds like you might have. I suffered from scrupulosity for several years as well, triggered when I was about 11 by a Sunday school teacher who was disappointed that I wasn't as far along with my walk with God as she'd expected and that I was the eldest in the class and at home, I should be setting a better example (she had been disappointed I wasn't praying ceaselessly; I didn't even know what the word meant at the time. However, I did wind up praying pretty obsessively for the better half of my life). I became extremely paranoid of thoughts that I'd have pop into my head and chant prayers "in Jesus's name" to the point where it was very obsessive. I was scared to have any thoughts that weren't "pure" or God approved, that Satan would find out and use me to lead others away from God, etc.  It was very stressful. Every form of OCD is and I had a tooooon of trouble with scrupulosity; I honestly wasn't able to curb it until I discovered what it was by accidentally stumbling into it on some Catholic forums a few years back. All my searches on my regular OCD never really helped me understand the scrupulosity (and I had regular OCD pretty bad as well, obsessively washing hands, counting forwards and backwards to twenty three separate times before starting the car, making sure certain things didn't touch, etc). Surprisingly, I was able to, for the most part, overcome the scrupulosity before I even de-converted, but during de-conversion, I did feel a lot of it come back pretty strong and became super paranoid for awhile. Actually, right before de-conversion, I spent about a month or two becoming super paranoid and reading every Christian book I could get my hands on and memorizing and chanting bible verses. One day it just kind of hit me, I wasn't really living life. I still have a touch of OCD (also mostly rid of before de-conversion), but it's not too terrible.  My major issue now is social anxiety and depression.  (but moreso, social anxiety, I don't feel nearly as depressed as I used to)

 

Scrupulosity was horrid, though. It did overshadow every other problem I seemed to have for years just because it was so distressing and I was always so worried about Judgement Day and God AND Satan judging me, how all my deeds and thoughts were being recorded, etc, etc. It's really, really terrible. Definitely, definitely talk to your therapist about OCD and anxiety disorders, get some help.  Where I've been to/am currently going for social anxiety, they have sheets with three columns. In the first one, you'd record what feelings/thoughts you were having, in the second, you'd list what actions you could take based on these thoughts/feelings, and in the third, you'd list the consequence to each action and then pick the consequence you'd like to see happen and based your actions off that rather than your thoughts/fears/worries/etc. I know it sounds basic, but until you actually do it and realize how much anxiety is controlling your life-- it's just really eye-opening. My therapist put it perfectly once saying that we wanted to pick the actions that would get us the best consequences. 

 

But, anyways, sorry-- wall of text. I know it's hard to free yourself from that, that's something you have to do, but definitely, definitely, learn all you can, seek treatment, and once that's gone, you really WILL enjoy life a lot more, I promise. 

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I should have said it better. I said it out loud not because of OCD but not with the intention of actually "selling my soul". I said it out loud due to fear and anger but the cause of all of this which was the thoughts IS anxiety/OCD.

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I should have said it better. I said it out loud not because of OCD but not with the intention of actually "selling my soul". I said it out loud due to fear and anger but the cause of all of this which was the thoughts IS anxiety/OCD.

 

Yes, I was already under that impression. 

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Ok, just making sure.

 

Like I said earlier in the thread, gonna be seeing a counselor Monday.

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So, this continues.

 

While browsing eBay earlier today, I feel it happened again. This time, I fear it was "heartfelt" rather that just thoughts. It wasn't "I sell my soul" but rather along the lines of "I could get all this stuff". I can't really say it was intentional or not though but given my fear, it's hard to think it could have been. Again, didnt say anything out loud with that kind of intention, no pact, etc. Maybe I'm just overthinking things though. It could have been thoughts again with my mind tricking me. But it added on to my fear.

 

The strangest part is that I don't even believe in hell anymore and any belief in Satan I had is dwindling.

 

EDIT: Did some research on Scrupulosity. Yep, sounds like what I'm going through.

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I wish I had learned about this sooner so I could have gotten help sooner. Could have pontentially avoided all this crap :(

 

But given my Christian mindset, I probably used to consider it as an "attack from Satan".

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I wish I had learned about this sooner so I could have gotten help sooner. Could have pontentially avoided all this crap sad.png

 

But given my Christian mindset, I probably used to consider it as an "attack from Satan".

 

You're more than likely correct.  The important thing is you are aware of it now and that'll make it easier to sort through. Once I learned that I had scrupulosity and that others did and it wasn't just Satan attacking my mind but an actual disorder that some people suffer from, I was able to cope with it a lot better and not be so paranoid and I was able to let thoughts go and not freak out so much about it; no more obsessing over that one thought that somehow slipped into my mind. It didn't just vanish, but it did get easier with time. Sounds like you are speaking to a counselor soon so hopefully you can get some help sorting through it then. Also, keep in mind, sometimes the first therapist you speak to might not work out the best and sometimes you gotta give it 5-8 weeks before it DOES start working.  It does take some time, but you'll get there!! I mean, you're already HERE and I wish I had been here several years ago when my scrupulosity was most severe, but we all know how different our frame of mind is when tinted with Christianity. 

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I wish I had learned about this sooner so I could have gotten help sooner. Could have pontentially avoided all this crap sad.png

 

But given my Christian mindset, I probably used to consider it as an "attack from Satan".

 

Hunter, please be aware that the phrase "selling your soul to the devil" or any of its variants doesn't even exist in the Bible.  This idea of Satan as some fast talking salesman who likes to make deals is foreign to the Bible.  Not that you should care what the Bible says about anything, but I say this since you seem to still have some issues with worrying that Christianity is true.

 

Now, the idea of Satanic attack is found in the Bible in several places; the Bible even goes so far as to say that the entire world is in Satan's control.  But the idea here is that Satan exists to serve God, even if unwillingly, and ultimately has no power except what God allows him.  Satan doesn't rule over hell.  According to the Bible, he'll end up being tormented there along with everyone else who didn't believe in Jesus.

 

In hell, it's Jesus who is ultimately doing the tormenting.  It's by the command of Jesus that hell exists and that people are cast there.  Revelation 14:10 says that people who worship the beast in the end times (and by extention, probably all of us non-Christians) will be tormented "in the presence of the Lamb."  Jesus isn't some passive, peace-loving person who hates the idea of torturing others.  It is he who will preside over the torment of all non-Christians in hell.

 

I say this not to scare you further (I know you're extremely susceptible to fear at the moment), but because it might help you see Christianity for what it really is when you know that Jesus is a monster.  People love to quote the Sermon on the Mount to us non-Christians to make us see the benificence of their savior.  Heck, they even like to quote John 3:16.  But John 3:36, which comes just a few verses later, is probably something they only reserve for inside their churches, becaues it would be bad PR if missionaries opened with threats of hell for non-Christians.  Understand this: Jesus is not a good person.  If what he said were true (it isn't), then he would be torturing an order of magnitude more people than Hitler ever did.

 

Think about this.  People had been living on the world for almost 100,000 years before Jesus showed up and told a handful of humans that they need to believe in him to be saved from the lake of fire.  Is this the sort of guy you want to spend your nights losing sleep over?  This is the person who's causing bugs to strike your heart with terror.  He's not worth it.

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I wish I had learned about this sooner so I could have gotten help sooner. Could have pontentially avoided all this crap sad.png

 

But given my Christian mindset, I probably used to consider it as an "attack from Satan".

Hunter, please be aware that the phrase "selling your soul to the devil" or any of its variants doesn't even exist in the Bible. This idea of Satan as some fast talking salesman who likes to make deals is foreign to the Bible. Not that you should care what the Bible says about anything, but I say this since you seem to still have some issues with worrying that Christianity is true.

 

Now, the idea of Satanic attack is found in the Bible in several places; the Bible even goes so far as to say that the entire world is in Satan's control. But the idea here is that Satan exists to serve God, even if unwillingly, and ultimately has no power except what God allows him. Satan doesn't rule over hell. According to the Bible, he'll end up being tormented there along with everyone else who didn't believe in Jesus.

 

In hell, it's Jesus who is ultimately doing the tormenting. It's by the command of Jesus that hell exists and that people are cast there. Revelation 14:10 says that people who worship the beast in the end times (and by extention, probably all of us non-Christians) will be tormented "in the presence of the Lamb." Jesus isn't some passive, peace-loving person who hates the idea of torturing others. It is he who will preside over the torment of all non-Christians in hell.

 

I say this not to scare you further (I know you're extremely susceptible to fear at the moment), but because it might help you see Christianity for what it really is when you know that Jesus is a monster. People love to quote the Sermon on the Mount to us non-Christians to make us see the benificence of their savior. Heck, they even like to quote John 3:16. But John 3:36, which comes just a few verses later, is probably something they only reserve for inside their churches, becaues it would be bad PR if missionaries opened with threats of hell for non-Christians. Understand this: Jesus is not a good person. If what he said were true (it isn't), then he would be torturing an order of magnitude more people than Hitler ever did.

 

Think about this. People had been living on the world for almost 100,000 years before Jesus showed up and told a handful of humans that they need to believe in him to be saved from the lake of fire. Is this the sort of guy you want to spend your nights losing sleep over? This is the person who's causing bugs to strike your heart with terror. He's not worth it.

Speaking of bugs, I once had a ladybug land on my ear and since I couldn't find it afterwards after I got it out, I viewed it as a "sign from God".

 

I know it's not in the Bible. As for the "attack from Satan", that's probably how I used to view anxiety/OCD with a Christian mindset before it got really bad.

 

I am indeed struggling with that. No one said it would be easy. But do I think a God could be real? Yes, but not in the way the Bible portrays him as.

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So, the counselor appointment went well. Mentioned my de-conversion, fears, and the thoughts.

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Wow, after doing more research, I'm shocked at how many symptoms I have of Scrupulosity. And not to mention the "selling soul" one seems to be a VERY common thought for people with this.

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I am glad your session went well this is probably the best thing that could be done for you. There is only so much we can offer in terms of support online. However, I will be on the sidelines cheering you on. This is not easy but you have taken a good first step on you road to recovery =D good luck

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Wow, after doing more research, I'm shocked at how many symptoms I have of Scrupulosity. And not to mention the "selling soul" one seems to be a VERY common thought for people with this.

 

I'm out of rep points just now or else I would give you another for this.  I'm really glad you went and got help.  Listen to your doc and ignore the religious leaders.  Your doc will use the best treatment known to humanity.  The religious leaders are part of the problem.  They want to keep you enslaved so that you will keep giving them money for the rest of your life.

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As far as I'm concerned, if souls are a thing, yours can't be bought, sold or stolen, your soul will always belong to you because it's the very definition of who you are. I consider any tales of soul selling pretty much like when that emperor got sold his new clothes, it's an abstract concept that's only of any real value to the person it originated with.

 

Anyway, becoming a non-Christian means you're no longer beholden to any deities, you don't have to extricate yourself from the grasp of one only to feel like you've fallen in with another, you're freeeeeeeee!

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It's not just that. I looked up general OCD as well and basically confirmed what I already knew.

 

And I've been doing a TON of research on Christianity from watching videos on YT to reading articles and stuff on here and other sites as well.

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Still not on any OCD medication unfortuatenly. I hope things get better because thoughts you get from this can be downright disgusting.

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Still not on any OCD medication unfortuatenly. I hope things get better because thoughts you get from this can be downright disgusting.

 

Don't be surprised if your talk therapy lasts for one to two years.  As to medications, that likely will start earlier.  Make sure the diagnosis is correct and understand the benefits/detriments/risks associated with any medication before you start using it.  Get a second opinion for sure.

 

Once again...........Patience.

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I know. It just sucks really bad.

 

As for the "selling soul" thought, yes I still am getting those thoughts, yes, I still have fear, yes I've been saying stuff like "Satan, in the name of God, I didn't sell my soul, etc", and praying to God, but really, after learning about Scrupulosity and learning it's common, I think it just that. No "pact"(not that there was one in the first place). Nothing. Just Scrupulosity and probably general OCD and Generalized Anxiety Disorder. Maybe a thought of hell DID come into my head as a result, but I don't even believe in hell anymore.

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I'm so glad you're seeing someone for help, Hunter93: that takes real courage.

 

The thing is, too, thoughts - especially ones with fear - wear paths in our minds, well-worn, and easily travelled, and making new ones takes a while, even if we no longer believe in the reason for the old paths being there. Learning new things helps forge new paths, because learning new information adds reasons to take the new paths, rather than the old ones. In any case, you've come so far, since you started this thread, even: you've gotten help, and you've decided to manage it, rather than it managing you. Good for you!

 

(A bit of new info, for what it's worth: some bugs can be pretty cool. Like the golden tortoise beetle.)

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Wow, after doing more research, I'm shocked at how many symptoms I have of Scrupulosity. And not to mention the "selling soul" one seems to be a VERY common thought for people with this.

 

Yeah, it seems to be a huge secret and you think you're this evil, horrible person until you stumble into that and realize, "Hey, other people have this problem, too!!"  And then you realize that IS an actual disorder and you're not evil or horrible. For how common it actually IS among people, I'm kind of surprised it was never mentioned in church, honestly. They seem to think it's more common in people of the Catholic faith than Protestant, but I don't know. Maybe Catholics are just more honest about it? It's a relief once you learn about it, but also frustrating that you had to suffer for so long without the answer!! Scrupulosity is not fun, but I feel like once I realized it was a disorder of the brain, I was more easily able to dismiss the thoughts as "That's just the Scrupulosity.  I'm not messed up or evil for having that thought." Even as a Christian, I was able to do that. Since de-conversion, it's pretty much disappeared. OCD on the other hand does have triggers (and bugs are a pretty big one- for me, anyway.....) But Scrupulosity was definitely more distressing than my actual OCD (I feel).  And most people with Scrupulosity usually have OCD (not always, but for the most part).  

 

 

Still not on any OCD medication unfortuatenly. I hope things get better because thoughts you get from this can be downright disgusting.

 

As I'm sure you've probably read by now, with Scrupulosity some of the thoughts can  be sexual in nature (that is common and should also be dismissed as part of the disorder) or just seem downright horrible and evil (also common and should be dismissed as such). OCD thoughts can also be disturbing, too.  Mostly because that's all you can think about it even if you don't want to.  And even as you do things to try to calm the anxiety over it, you're STILL thinking about it. I would definitely keep seeing a counselor. A lot of OCD can be treated without meds. Not all of it, obviously if it's recommended, you want to take it. I just wouldn't be looking too forward to that as the ultimate answer. You know what you have and are seeking help. The thoughts will lessen as the counselors teach you a skill set to help you better deal with the disorders. I'm very glad you are seeing a counselor and I'm glad you are doing research! With Scrupulosity, learning about it and researching it was a huge relief. It really is just a disorder and it really is common. There is nothing wrong with you (or me!). 

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Apparently, these thoughts found their way into my dreams. But, I don't even remember the dream. It DID scare me though. But at this point, I pretty much know it's just a disorder.

 

But, I realized I missed a big red flag for OCD that I have: excessive handwashing.

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Apparently, these thoughts found their way into my dreams. But, I don't even remember the dream. It DID scare me though. But at this point, I pretty much know it's just a disorder.

 

But, I realized I missed a big red flag for OCD that I have: excessive handwashing.

 

Yeah, they did that to me, too. I'd more call them nightmares as some were pretty horrid and had me distressed and anxious for weeks. Now, I don't really have them at all. 

 

Excessive handwashing IS a big red flag. It's okay, though, I didn't think about it til I was at a theater in my late teens and me and a friend were in the bathroom and she commented that I must have OCD since I'd been washing my hands over and over and over while she waiting to leave. I'd wash my hands so much they'd get cuts and bleed. That is something else that is treatable. It is ALL treatable, it just takes time. It's easier when you know what you're dealing with. 

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