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Goodbye Jesus

Selling Soul To The Devil.


Hunter93

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When talking about excessive handwashing, mine is more of a "fear of contamination" issue.

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Speaking of the devil, some Hebrew manuscripts not in the bible describe the supposed rebellion by

Satan and one third of the angels against god. Well, if that could happen, just how secure would Xtians be if they go to heaven? Could Xtians rebel?

 

Also, do angels have free will? If so, is their position with god now safe? If so, Why?

 

If free will is the reason for the punishment in hell (because we "chose" to sin") why did god give

humans free will? Since he can do anything, he could have given free will to do anything except sin.

 

Also, if god had informed Adam that, if he chose by free will to sin, he would be sent to eternal hell,

would Adam, a rational man, have agreed to that arrangement, knowing all the problems it could cause?

Knowing his progeny in the billions, except for a chosen few, would burn in hell for eternity?

 

Just a few questions I needed to get off my chest.

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When talking about excessive handwashing, mine is more of a "fear of contamination" issue.

 

Yeah, I think that's generally true for anyone washing their hands excessively. You don't want to get a disease or spread one. 

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As a non believer I dont think you can sell your soul to the devil, christians claim that since you already rejected jesus you already belong to satan.

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Speaking of the devil, some Hebrew manuscripts not in the bible describe the supposed rebellion by

Satan and one third of the angels against god. Well, if that could happen, just how secure would Xtians be if they go to heaven? Could Xtians rebel?

 

Also, do angels have free will? If so, is their position with god now safe? If so, Why?

 

If free will is the reason for the punishment in hell (because we "chose" to sin") why did god give

humans free will? Since he can do anything, he could have given free will to do anything except sin.

 

Also, if god had informed Adam that, if he chose by free will to sin, he would be sent to eternal hell,

would Adam, a rational man, have agreed to that arrangement, knowing all the problems it could cause?

Knowing his progeny in the billions, except for a chosen few, would burn in hell for eternity?

 

Just a few questions I needed to get off my chest.

We need a thread about freewill. I dont understand the concept of freewill. We have the abilitiy to choose but or options as to come from somewhere. I mean if you create robot with "freewill" you have to programm is abilities and options. Why should god give us the ability to commit murder if he knows that some of us will choose it?

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Speaking of the devil, some Hebrew manuscripts not in the bible describe the supposed rebellion by

Satan and one third of the angels against god. Well, if that could happen, just how secure would Xtians be if they go to heaven? Could Xtians rebel?

 

Also, do angels have free will? If so, is their position with god now safe? If so, Why?

 

If free will is the reason for the punishment in hell (because we "chose" to sin") why did god give

humans free will? Since he can do anything, he could have given free will to do anything except sin.

 

Also, if god had informed Adam that, if he chose by free will to sin, he would be sent to eternal hell,

would Adam, a rational man, have agreed to that arrangement, knowing all the problems it could cause?

Knowing his progeny in the billions, except for a chosen few, would burn in hell for eternity?

 

Just a few questions I needed to get off my chest.

We need a thread about freewill. I dont understand the concept of freewill. We have the abilitiy to choose but or options as to come from somewhere. I mean if you create robot with "freewill" you have to programm is abilities and options. Why should god give us the ability to commit murder if he knows that some of us will choose it?

 

 

Yeah, the freewill thing has always been confusing to me, too. Supposedly, it's because we'd be a bunch of dolls that are forced to love God back and not choosing to love God of our own free will (what I was taught at church) but I never really understood it.  

 

For the angels, I was always under the impression they had free will before The Fall, but afterwards it was pretty much determined who was with who. Does that mean their free will was taken away? Huh. Interesting. I don't know; it gets really confusing, that free will stuff!! 

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Saw the counselor again. Despite the OCD/Anxiety being really bad since yesterday, I think this will work. I have another appointment on Monday plus an appointment with my psychiatrist the next day.

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Speaking of the devil, some Hebrew manuscripts not in the bible describe the supposed rebellion by

Satan and one third of the angels against god. Well, if that could happen, just how secure would Xtians be if they go to heaven? Could Xtians rebel?

 

Also, do angels have free will? If so, is their position with god now safe? If so, Why?

 

If free will is the reason for the punishment in hell (because we "chose" to sin") why did god give

humans free will? Since he can do anything, he could have given free will to do anything except sin.

 

Also, if god had informed Adam that, if he chose by free will to sin, he would be sent to eternal hell,

would Adam, a rational man, have agreed to that arrangement, knowing all the problems it could cause?

Knowing his progeny in the billions, except for a chosen few, would burn in hell for eternity?

 

Just a few questions I needed to get off my chest.

We need a thread about freewill. I dont understand the concept of freewill. We have the abilitiy to choose but or options as to come from somewhere. I mean if you create robot with "freewill" you have to programm is abilities and options. Why should god give us the ability to commit murder if he knows that some of us will choose it?

 

 

Yeah, the freewill thing has always been confusing to me, too. Supposedly, it's because we'd be a bunch of dolls that are forced to love God back and not choosing to love God of our own free will (what I was taught at church) but I never really understood it.  

 

For the angels, I was always under the impression they had free will before The Fall, but afterwards it was pretty much determined who was with who. Does that mean their free will was taken away? Huh. Interesting. I don't know; it gets really confusing, that free will stuff!! 

 

 

It's funny, he gives us free will so that we won't be robots, but if we don't act like robots programmed to do exactly what he wants us to do, we're screwed, according to the Bible. It's almost like we're robots programmed to disobey and commit other sins, just so he can punish us for doing what we're programmed to do.

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Saw the counselor again. Despite the OCD/Anxiety being really bad since yesterday, I think this will work. I have another appointment on Monday plus an appointment with my psychiatrist the next day.

Keep it going.  Once again........patience.

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Hunter, glad to hear you're getting help from a medical professional instead of a pastor.  As long as you stay away from Christianity, I think you'll be OK.  Have you discussed the religious aspect of your problem and your deconversion with these guys?  Might not be a bad idea.

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Hunter, I can relate to those worries.  At least you are seeing a psychiatrist.

 

BTW: If your worries make it hard to sleep, then you should take some sleeping pills.  Sleep deprivation makes all of that worse.

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So, the other day I happened upon some info (I'd share the source but I honestly forgot what site but it was a site detailing various forms of OCD) and they claimed that Scrupulosity was the fifth most common form of OCD. Well, why the hell don't more people know about it in that case? That's crazy!! 

 

Also, Hunter93, I'm glad things are going well for you! And you have an appointment with a psychiatrist. That is one appointment I haven't made and need to. Maybe they will give you an SSRI; it's supposed to help a ton, but you do have to be careful with the meds! 

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I still pray due to this even though I don't know if a God is truly out there. Though, just now(not literally just now) while praying, I felt like I mistakenly said a couple things that implies I "sold my soul" or "will sell my soul" when I know I didn't or will actually go through with something like that. That really scared me even though I didn't actually downright saw those exact words. It's hard to explain.

 

And yet, after learning about Scrupulosity and that "selling soul" is a common symptom, I wonder if it's just that/general OCD thoughts/reactions. I've read that excessive praying is a symptom of OCD too.

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I still pray due to this even though I don't know if a God is truly out there. Though, just now(not literally just now) while praying, I felt like I mistakenly said a couple things that implies I "sold my soul" or "will sell my soul" when I know I didn't or will actually go through with something like that. That really scared me even though I didn't actually downright saw those exact words. It's hard to explain.

 

And yet, after learning about Scrupulosity and that "selling soul" is a common symptom, I wonder if it's just that/general OCD thoughts/reactions. I've read that excessive praying is a symptom of OCD too.

 

Honestly, I still sometimes pray too. I think it's just a habit. My de-conversion was pretty recent and prior, when I was a Christian, I'd pray A LOT, like all the time in the back of my mind, I'd be "talking to God" and hoping all my thoughts were okay and pure enough. Also, from as young as I can remember, I have always prayed before going to bed and before meals.  Sometimes, I just say, "Thanks for the food." Because I AM grateful for the food, I don't do the "daily bread" prayer anymore, but it just feels weird not to say anything. And, sometimes at night, or when I'm really stressed out I'll say a prayer. I think it's habit, but although I am leaning heavily towards atheism, my random prayers don't hurt and I do feel better after wards. 

 

Again, I'm not a doctor, but it really does sound like you suffer from OCD and possibly Scrupulosity. You CAN suffer from both general OCD and specific forms of OCD, such as Scrupulosity, at the same time. They don't always go hand in hand, but chances are if you have Scrupulosity, you have general OCD. You can have general OCD and not Scrupulosity, but it seems most people with OCD that have been exposed to religion have suffered from Scrupulosity to some degree. And people with OCD usually are more prone to social anxiety and depression. Scrupulosity is one thing I have never felt comfortable talking to anybody about and, to this day, have only spoken about it three people and it was rather recent (one was a therapist). General OCD, on the hand, while I've never been proud of it, I felt less guilt and more frustration over it (and still do). Once I understood Scrupulosity, I was able to get a hand on it. It took a long while, but I also wasn't seeing therapists because my parents just didn't really believe in them, I guess. But general OCD, damn, it's hard to beat and you'll still have triggers even after treated. 

 

I would keep going to the counselor and getting help with the anxiety.  Talk therapy is effective, but it does take awhile. I had to go through a 16 week session, 8 wks cognitive behavioral therapy and 8 wks cognitive thinking therapy to help with depression last year. Behavioral therapy was great too because it helped me get control of my thoughts and actions and then the thinking therapy helped me understand why I was having the thoughts. 

 

And you CAN be in control of your thoughts. Sometimes it doesn't seem like it, but you'll get there.  Anxiety disorders suck. And it really sucks when you're in a constant worry over if there is a God or not and did he hear your thoughts and did you accidentally sell your soul to the devil. The thought is ridiculous to some people, but I know the thought and possibility is too real for you as is the fear and anxiety you have over it. I have been there. And it is a disorder. 

 

Keep going to the counselor and keep reading as much as you can on OCD symptoms. I'm not saying to diagnose or treat yourself but knowledge really is power as cheesy as that sounds! Just keep practicing on learning how to dismiss the thought and not spend too long worrying about it. Good for you for keeping to see the counselor and psychiatrist.  Sorry this is long winded. We are here for you, though! 

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It's interesting to hear that you guys pray.  Since leaving Christianity, I don't ever pray, whether purposefully or otherwise.  Truthfully I wish this were not so, especially since I claim to believe in God (for whatever that's worth) and am trying to get better at practicing Hinduism.

 

Perhaps it's just that verbal and audible prayer in English (or other vernacular) is somewhat particular to Christianity.  Christians are the only ones I know of who congregate and utter audible prayers such as "dear Lord..."  In any case though, I think that involuntary prayer to God is harmless.  Maybe prayer to Jesus specifically is somewhat harmful, however, given that he is a malevolent deity who is all too happy to send you to hell.  I'd avoid communication with Jesus.

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I still pray due to this even though I don't know if a God is truly out there. Though, just now(not literally just now) while praying, I felt like I mistakenly said a couple things that implies I "sold my soul" or "will sell my soul" when I know I didn't or will actually go through with something like that. That really scared me even though I didn't actually downright saw those exact words. It's hard to explain.

 

And yet, after learning about Scrupulosity and that "selling soul" is a common symptom, I wonder if it's just that/general OCD thoughts/reactions. I've read that excessive praying is a symptom of OCD too.

Honestly, I still sometimes pray too. I think it's just a habit. My de-conversion was pretty recent and prior, when I was a Christian, I'd pray A LOT, like all the time in the back of my mind, I'd be "talking to God" and hoping all my thoughts were okay and pure enough. Also, from as young as I can remember, I have always prayed before going to bed and before meals. Sometimes, I just say, "Thanks for the food." Because I AM grateful for the food, I don't do the "daily bread" prayer anymore, but it just feels weird not to say anything. And, sometimes at night, or when I'm really stressed out I'll say a prayer. I think it's habit, but although I am leaning heavily towards atheism, my random prayers don't hurt and I do feel better after wards.

 

Again, I'm not a doctor, but it really does sound like you suffer from OCD and possibly Scrupulosity. You CAN suffer from both general OCD and specific forms of OCD, such as Scrupulosity, at the same time. They don't always go hand in hand, but chances are if you have Scrupulosity, you have general OCD. You can have general OCD and not Scrupulosity, but it seems most people with OCD that have been exposed to religion have suffered from Scrupulosity to some degree. And people with OCD usually are more prone to social anxiety and depression. Scrupulosity is one thing I have never felt comfortable talking to anybody about and, to this day, have only spoken about it three people and it was rather recent (one was a therapist). General OCD, on the hand, while I've never been proud of it, I felt less guilt and more frustration over it (and still do). Once I understood Scrupulosity, I was able to get a hand on it. It took a long while, but I also wasn't seeing therapists because my parents just didn't really believe in them, I guess. But general OCD, damn, it's hard to beat and you'll still have triggers even after treated.

 

I would keep going to the counselor and getting help with the anxiety. Talk therapy is effective, but it does take awhile. I had to go through a 16 week session, 8 wks cognitive behavioral therapy and 8 wks cognitive thinking therapy to help with depression last year. Behavioral therapy was great too because it helped me get control of my thoughts and actions and then the thinking therapy helped me understand why I was having the thoughts.

 

And you CAN be in control of your thoughts. Sometimes it doesn't seem like it, but you'll get there. Anxiety disorders suck. And it really sucks when you're in a constant worry over if there is a God or not and did he hear your thoughts and did you accidentally sell your soul to the devil. The thought is ridiculous to some people, but I know the thought and possibility is too real for you as is the fear and anxiety you have over it. I have been there. And it is a disorder.

 

Keep going to the counselor and keep reading as much as you can on OCD symptoms. I'm not saying to diagnose or treat yourself but knowledge really is power as cheesy as that sounds! Just keep practicing on learning how to dismiss the thought and not spend too long worrying about it. Good for you for keeping to see the counselor and psychiatrist. Sorry this is long winded. We are here for you, though!

 

It's even worse when you fear that not only you "sold your soul" but because of that, you don't have much time left. That's what I have to deal with.

 

BUT....when you think about it, this whole concept shows that there are really Christians don't read their Bible. Ezekiel 18:4 says all souls belong to God. So in the Christian belief, this is impossible. If anything, "selling your soul" is probably a metaphor for being willing to do anything to get what you want.

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Well, as a Christian, I definitely read and memorized quite a bit of the Bible. I seem to have trouble retaining stuff so I'd forget it, reread it and memorize it again. I reread some of the books several times. Heck, I think I read Acts on eight different occasions. I don't even wanna know how man times I read Genesis or Exodus. I liked Ezekiel. I like the name, lol. The Bible also contradicts a lot which is why they're so many interpretations. 

 

The problem is it's a thought disorder. You could be a Muslim reading the Quran (sp?) and would more than likely be having similar problems. Some people can deal with religion healthily and some people can't; it's more about what we are dispositioned to genetically combined with our life experienced that trigger it. If you are someone whose genes are more than likely to have OCD, something at some point in your life will trigger it. Religion and OCD mixed together is just a scary experience. 

 

Yes, I agree with your metaphor take; it makes sense. It's also good to see that you've come quite a ways from being disturbed by your thoughts to questioning and even figuring out reasons behind the thought. 

 

I always felt like I had little time left but that was more due to the Rapture stories than my OCD, I believe. 

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hunter, maybe it would help to learn more of the history of Christianity and Judaism to satisfy yourself that it can't possibly be true?  I know you have psychological problems too, but you might find that eliminating any intellectual uncertainties you have about leaving Christianity would improve the irrational subconscious behaviors too.  Just an idea. :)

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Well, as a Christian, I definitely read and memorized quite a bit of the Bible. I seem to have trouble retaining stuff so I'd forget it, reread it and memorize it again. I reread some of the books several times. Heck, I think I read Acts on eight different occasions. I don't even wanna know how man times I read Genesis or Exodus. I liked Ezekiel. I like the name, lol. The Bible also contradicts a lot which is why they're so many interpretations.

 

The problem is it's a thought disorder. You could be a Muslim reading the Quran (sp?) and would more than likely be having similar problems. Some people can deal with religion healthily and some people can't; it's more about what we are dispositioned to genetically combined with our life experienced that trigger it. If you are someone whose genes are more than likely to have OCD, something at some point in your life will trigger it. Religion and OCD mixed together is just a scary experience.

 

Yes, I agree with your metaphor take; it makes sense. It's also good to see that you've come quite a ways from being disturbed by your thoughts to questioning and even figuring out reasons behind the thought.

 

I always felt like I had little time left but that was more due to the Rapture stories than my OCD, I believe.

I should have said it better. I didn't mean ALL Christians. Just the ones who DO believe you can literally sell your soul. But, I agree about the interpretations.

 

hunter, maybe it would help to learn more of the history of Christianity and Judaism to satisfy yourself that it can't possibly be true? I know you have psychological problems too, but you might find that eliminating any intellectual uncertainties you have about leaving Christianity would improve the irrational subconscious behaviors too. Just an idea. :)

I've done some research on various Christian topics plus I've watched videos regarding the Bible.

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Well, as a Christian, I definitely read and memorized quite a bit of the Bible. I seem to have trouble retaining stuff so I'd forget it, reread it and memorize it again. I reread some of the books several times. Heck, I think I read Acts on eight different occasions. I don't even wanna know how man times I read Genesis or Exodus. I liked Ezekiel. I like the name, lol. The Bible also contradicts a lot which is why they're so many interpretations.

 

The problem is it's a thought disorder. You could be a Muslim reading the Quran (sp?) and would more than likely be having similar problems. Some people can deal with religion healthily and some people can't; it's more about what we are dispositioned to genetically combined with our life experienced that trigger it. If you are someone whose genes are more than likely to have OCD, something at some point in your life will trigger it. Religion and OCD mixed together is just a scary experience.

 

Yes, I agree with your metaphor take; it makes sense. It's also good to see that you've come quite a ways from being disturbed by your thoughts to questioning and even figuring out reasons behind the thought.

 

I always felt like I had little time left but that was more due to the Rapture stories than my OCD, I believe.

I should have said it better. I didn't mean ALL Christians. Just the ones who DO believe you can literally sell your soul. But, I agree about the interpretations.

 

hunter, maybe it would help to learn more of the history of Christianity and Judaism to satisfy yourself that it can't possibly be true? I know you have psychological problems too, but you might find that eliminating any intellectual uncertainties you have about leaving Christianity would improve the irrational subconscious behaviors too. Just an idea. smile.png

I've done some research on various Christian topics plus I've watched videos regarding the Bible.

 

 

Yeah, I figured that's what you meant. I was just putting my two cents in. yellow.gif

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Are panic attacks associated with OCD/Scrupulosity-related thoughts? I'm pretty sure I had one yesterday and today.

 

And...

 

 

I said that kind of stuff out loud but not with the intention of actually doing it. I said it somewhat like this, "Satan, in the name of God, I did not say this or this to you", etc. But I feel like it was a mistake.

My biggest fear is still that I don't have much time left.

 

 

I still fear doing this was a mistake and doing this is what caused today's panic attack :(

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Being able to identify your panic or anxiety attacks, or other behavior, is an important step towards learning to control them.  Keep up the good work.

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Are panic attacks associated with OCD/Scrupulosity-related thoughts? I'm pretty sure I had one yesterday and today.

 

And...

 

 

I said that kind of stuff out loud but not with the intention of actually doing it. I said it somewhat like this, "Satan, in the name of God, I did not say this or this to you", etc. But I feel like it was a mistake.

 

My biggest fear is still that I don't have much time left.

 

 

I still fear doing this was a mistake and doing this is what caused today's panic attack sad.png

 

Yes, panic attacks ARE associated with pretty much any form of OCD.  OCD is an anxiety disorder and panic attacks are pretty associated with anxiety. Social anxiety, generalized anxiety, obsessive compulsive disorder/scrupulosity, you probably will suffer from panic attacks. Some will be more severe than others and panic attacks are DEFINITELY something you want to bring up with the counselor/psychiatrist so they can help you identify them and how to handle them. You might also want to google breathing techniques for panic attacks. 

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Made a mistake. I did have a panic attack today but that happened before that. I might have unintentionally fueled it though with that as it's become a compulsion when I get those thoughts.

 

I'm going to do more research on panic attacks and talk to my counselor about it next time.

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So, about the prayers and everything, I started to include "In Jesus name" or "In the name of Jesus Christ". Understand that it's gotten so bad that it feels like believing in God and Jesus is the only thing that is between me and what I believe to be a complete mental breakdown. Even then, I'm still very scared.

 

I'm still going to continue counseling though.

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