Why Is Jesus Considered The Pinnacle Of Perfection

[megasamurai]

Christians often portray Jesus as perfect and the only person worth perfectly emulating. I ponder, why is he considered so perfect? Christians act like Jesus didn't just teach compassion, but invented it. Apparently, no one would give a damn about anybody if Jesus didn't teach about it. The odd thing is that compassion has been taught by others long before Jesus. Love seems to be hard wired into the brains of humanity.

 

Another idea is that Jesus teachings are perfect. I find some of those ideas hard to swallow. Jesus taught that people should let others physically abuse them "turning the other cheek". He also taught others to abandon their families. He taught that capital punishment for disobedient children was okay. His use of the word "love" seems particularly interesting. Sometimes, he mistakes "love" as a synonym for "compassion" and other times he uses the term to mean the traditional dictionary definition of "a deep emotional bond between two people". I assume "love your enemy" means the former definition rather than the latter because the latter definition is impossible to meet. Still, "love me more than your family and friends or fry" seems to suggest the traditional dictionary definition of love. His use of terms is vague. Also, he deliberately used weird metaphors instead of just straight telling people moral lessons. He said the confusion was deliberate.

 

Another reason people seem to love him is his healings. God rarely did healings in the OT. Here, it is obviously a PR stunt. When he healed, he always mentioned the ulterior motive of strenghening others faith. He didn't have pure ultruistic motives. He demands prayer for healing. People have to grovel and beg for healing.

 

Further, Jesus is kind of a jerk in the Bible. He verbally abused his disciples and others for stupid reasons. He called them "corrupt, faithless, vipers, etc" for "sins" as menial as failure to do excorcisms. He was tempermental as can be. He threatened to torture his enemies for eternity. He never attacked the big injustices of this world. He displayed racist behavior towards others. He had a huge ego and sense of self importance.

 

I always had a hard time loving Jesus because I found his behavior deplorable and character unlikable. I didn't see the huggable person everyone else did. I couldn't obey his commandment of "love me more than anyone else or fry". I couldn't see him, and thus, not form an emotional bond. Why is Jesus so hyped as perfect.

[JamesG]

I am curious I haven't really been reading the bible lately but which verse does the warlord Jesus Christ Vampire slayer make racist comments?

[megasamurai]

In Matthew 15:22-30 the following happens. Jesus meets a non-Jewish woman. The woman begs to be healed. Jesus refuses and calls her a dog because she's not a jew. She begs. Jesus eventually gives in and heals her.

[Llwellyn]

Since "good" means "what God does" then to say "Jesus is good" means only "Jesus does what he does." Which is true.

[Ralet]

In Matthew 15:22-30 the following happens. Jesus meets a non-Jewish woman. The woman begs to be healed. Jesus refuses and calls her a dog because she's not a jew. She begs. Jesus eventually gives in and heals her.

This verse confused me as a christian. We were told came to save us all but from this verse it sounds more like "i came to save my people but if you annoy me long enough you might me saved as well." The youth group leader I asked about this verse said it should show us how merciful Jesus is.

Yeah, merciful to not care about non-jews.

[Bhim]

The assumed goodness of Jesus seems to give Christianity far more credit in our culture than it is due. When we criticize Christianity, Christians are surprised or even offended that we could reject a religion whose founder is the epitome of goodness. This is why the "Trilemma" of C. S. Lewis is so effective when it really shouldn't be. We ought to combat this misconception by publicly insisting that Jesus is not a good person as Christians claim he is.

 

Jesus is out to send you to eternal hell. This is not something good people do. Jesus is anti-family values and is not an appropriate role model for children. He has the traits of a cult leader and ought to be avoided.

[◊ crazyguy123 ◊]

Well, you've got to admit, despite Jesus' flaws, when he called the Pharisees vipers, they had it coming. They were a bunch of dicks.

 

Since "good" means "what God does" then to say "Jesus is good" means only "Jesus does what he does." Which is true.

 

It requires logic like this to justify the murder of children and other atrocities. It's the best and easiest way to defend their god when he acts like a monster. "God/Jesus is good and only does good, so when he kills children, innocent people, and sits back and watches people and Satan tear innocent people's lives apart like a bunch of wolves, he's doing something good." It might also be an easy way to avoid thinking about Hell and would be a great way to keep doubt away, which might come as a result of the doctrine of Hell, like it did for me, but that might only work for so long before a person realizes, "Maybe the god I believe in really is a monster..."

[Guest MadameX]

Heh, the ol' Euthyphro dilemma.

 

It is an interesting question as to 'why' Jesus is idolized (and I intend all the ramifications of the word 'idol'); humans love a story. We need stories about people we can relate to, and we need our heroes - see the recent Superheroes thread. Even if they are not really heroes, because in reality NO one is as perfect as we would like upon closer inspection, we will often later make them into heroes. Look at all our monuments and statues to various alpha males of the past. Look at out myth making about sports heroes.

 

It could be argued that the image of a character from history is manipulated by the writers of history to be something that fits the narrative. Therefore, Jesus becomes all good. Does this inspire some people to be better than they might be otherwise? Probably. Is it a projection of our own desires and prejudices and wishes? Of course it is, like everything is.

[LivingLife]

Even if you cherry pick the good stuff which is what they all do, they still do not seem to even be able to live up to that. None of them are going to sell all and give to the poor ever. Jesus obviously meant not to put faith in material wealth but they all seem to amass material wealth like it is supposed to be that way.

Their hypocrisy outshines anything they may purport to be. They are really no different to any of us.

[Bhim]

I don't know that the Pharisees were at all as the new Testament portrays them. What I've read from Jews suggests that they were humanitarians and champions of equality, not lying hypocrites. If so, then this just proves that Jesus even lies about his enemies. I don't think that we can trust ANY statement from the mouth of Jesus. When Jesus tells the truth, it is only coincidental. He seems to me like a liar who teaches a false view of reality.

[mymistake]

Same reason Superman is considered strong.

[centauri]

As pointed out by Bhim, Jesus exhibits the signs of a cult leader.

In this case:

• The leader claims to have all authority and power, and that he will rule over a glorious kingdom.
• The leader claims to be the only conduit to salvation and promises a better life for his followers.
• The leader promises great rewards if people devote their full attention to him and obey his commands.
• The leader tells people that if they eat his flesh and drink his blood, they can live forever.
• The leader promises to kill those that offend him, and simple unbelief is enough to offend him.
• The leader overturns traditional regulations, and claims to bring disharmony and change to the old order.
• The leader promises that his followers will have great miracle working powers if they believe in him.
• The leader calls his followers "sheep", while telling them that they are superior to others.
• The leader is to be the center of attention at all times.

If Jesus doesn't set the standard for disturbing cult leader traits and desires, then nobody does.

Yet, it's all just fine and dandy because the maniac cult leader is "Jesus".

If it was any other figure, they would be condemned as a power hungry, demented despot.

 

I would also add that the "sweet perfect Jesus" image is shoved into the skulls of children at a very young age.

While at Wal-Mart I visited the children's book department and it was filled with coloring books, cartoon type books, and other more serious presentations of the "Jesus loves everyone" propaganda that is shamelessly sold to children as factual and accurate "history".

The country is infected with a Jesus fetish and has been for a very long time.

Rather than being ashamed of manipulating children with propaganda, the bulk of society cheers this as healthy education.

[leopardus]

And don't forget how much Jesus hates FIGS! No, no... not fags... figs.  Remember the big fit he threw at the fig tree? The WBC has been so wrong all this time. 

Frankly though, that fig tree story really is a great example of what a putz the late JC was. I mean it even says it wasn't the season for figs.

Oh, and the fit in the temple!! Whips, thowing tables, screaming!! Serious temper there.

Then there's the, "Go ahead Judas, make my day." approach he takes at the last supper.

And blowing off his folks as a kid. But hey, all you Sunday School kids better honor your mom and dad. Don't think WWJD.

How about name-calling? "white-washed tombs", "dogs"....

Conflicting teachings?? "take a sword"... but don't use it ??!!

 

Yeah, good ol' JC. Such a great guy.

[Hunter93]

I have been watching the "Do YOU know your Bible" series on YouTube. Really good series.

 

In one of the parts, it mentioned how Jesus said he did not come to abolish the old law but fulfil it. Well, according to the video. Jesus didn't keep the Sabbath among other things.

 

I guess when you de-convert, you really start to see things in a different perspective.

[◊ crazyguy123 ◊]

I have been watching the "Do YOU know your Bible" series on YouTube. Really good series.

 

In one of the parts, it mentioned how Jesus said he did not come to abolish the old law but fulfil it. Well, according to the video. Jesus didn't keep the Sabbath among other things.

 

I guess when you de-convert, you really start to see things in a different perspective.

 

But according to apologetics, Jesus didn't need to keep the Sabbath because he was "God in the flesh". Don't you know he can break all of the rules if he wants to? He did a lot of magic tricks and claimed to be god, so he must be...

[megasamurai]

A Christian might say that Jesus healings weren't working on the sabbath because it takes as little effort as lifting a finger for him. Since God had to rest on the Sabbath, this suggests his powers take effort to do. A less defensible alteration of the laws is his famous, "Don't do that eye for an eye thing anymore". This would be a great thing, but he replaces this with letting others abuse you.

[RipVanWinkle]

The greatest irony in history is that, as to the truly good things Jesus told people to do, i.e., love,

compassion, take care of the poor,humility, etc., Xtians ignore or rationalize away. bill

[megasamurai]

Doesn't Jesus himself ignore those things when he says "Bless those who curse you" and then turns around and threatens people with hell. He doesn't seem to follow his own teachings well.

[midniterider]

Doesn't Jesus himself ignore those things when he says "Bless those who curse you" and then turns around and threatens people with hell. He doesn't seem to follow his own teachings well.

 

A bunch of people on acid wrote the bible, then Christians try to make sense of it.

[megasamurai]

Mathew was sober enough to deliberately take prophecies supposedly about Jesus out of context to misquote in the Old Testament.

[Heavenese]

In Matthew 15:22-30 the following happens. Jesus meets a non-Jewish woman. The woman begs to be healed. Jesus refuses and calls her a dog because she's not a jew. She begs. Jesus eventually gives in and heals her.

 

 

Hey, I'm a Christian here.   I wanted to come to these forums to have some in depth discussion, because most Christians are traditional in their thinking.  In reference to your quote here, this simply shows Jesus wasn't yet sent out to the Gentiles.  You can read in Mark's version of this episode (Which both Matthew and Luke used as a source) that He was first sent to the people of Israel.  After Israel had their fill, then He would go out to the Gentiles.  Of course this happened once Israel ultimately rejected Jesus with the death sentence.  Interesting to note, the only ones Jesus commented as having great faith, is Gentiles. (That dog stuff is simply illustrations.)

[Guest Babylonian Dream]

I like the old ancient babylonian moral views on compassion better. Instead of simply praying for someone, according to both the ancient babylonian religion and even law, you were obligated to help others and show compassion. You owed it to your community to help your community out. You had to make sure your guests ate well and were happy. And when someone treated the poor and hungry badly, that was strongly looked down upon. Like in the story Gimilininurta.

[Ralet]

 

In Matthew 15:22-30 the following happens. Jesus meets a non-Jewish woman. The woman begs to be healed. Jesus refuses and calls her a dog because she's not a jew. She begs. Jesus eventually gives in and heals her.

 

 

Hey, I'm a Christian here.   I wanted to come to these forums to have some in depth discussion, because most Christians are traditional in their thinking.  In reference to your quote here, this simply shows Jesus wasn't yet sent out to the Gentiles.  You can read in Mark's version of this episode (Which both Matthew and Luke used as a source) that He was first sent to the people of Israel.  After Israel had their fill, then He would go out to the Gentiles.  Of course this happened once Israel ultimately rejected Jesus with the death sentence.  Interesting to note, the only ones Jesus commented as having great faith, is Gentiles. (That dog stuff is simply illustrations.)

 

 He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”-Matthew 15:24 Doesnt sound like "I have to save/help the jews first". So at least at one point in time your all-loving God/Jesus didnt care about you.

[Heavenese]

 

 

In Matthew 15:22-30 the following happens. Jesus meets a non-Jewish woman. The woman begs to be healed. Jesus refuses and calls her a dog because she's not a jew. She begs. Jesus eventually gives in and heals her.

 

 

Hey, I'm a Christian here.   I wanted to come to these forums to have some in depth discussion, because most Christians are traditional in their thinking.  In reference to your quote here, this simply shows Jesus wasn't yet sent out to the Gentiles.  You can read in Mark's version of this episode (Which both Matthew and Luke used as a source) that He was first sent to the people of Israel.  After Israel had their fill, then He would go out to the Gentiles.  Of course this happened once Israel ultimately rejected Jesus with the death sentence.  Interesting to note, the only ones Jesus commented as having great faith, is Gentiles. (That dog stuff is simply illustrations.)

 

 He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”-Matthew 15:24 Doesnt sound like "I have to save/help the jews first". So at least at one point in time your all-loving God/Jesus didnt care about you.

 

 

 

You have to remember this story is a reference to Mark's version.  So Mark's version takes eminence over Matthew's.  Yet even in Matthew's account, we know the Gospel was going to be preached to all corners of the world, so Matthew wanted to highlight something in this story.

[Bhim]

Hey, I'm a Christian here. I wanted to come to these forums to have some in depth discussion, because most Christians are traditional in their thinking. In reference to your quote here, this simply shows Jesus wasn't yet sent out to the Gentiles. You can read in Mark's version of this episode (Which both Matthew and Luke used as a source) that He was first sent to the people of Israel. After Israel had their fill, then He would go out to the Gentiles. Of course this happened once Israel ultimately rejected Jesus with the death sentence. Interesting to note, the only ones Jesus commented as having great faith, is Gentiles. (That dog stuff is simply illustrations.)

Hi Heavenese, glad to have the chance to talk to a current Christian about this. I want to start out by observing that your opinion is, in fact, very traditional and orthodox. It's outlined in Romans chapter 11.

 

I freely admit that the case for a "racist Jesus" is a weak one. Really, it's hard to tell where Jesus stands because he reserves plenty of harsh words for his fellow Jews. And really, that's one of my many fundamental problems with Jesus. He never seems to be consistent on anything. His message is for the Jews...until they reject him. Then Paul claims that his rejection by the Jews means riches for the Gentiles. You have to admit, it all seems very contrived when viewed from an outside perspective, doesn't it? And our perspective is an informed one, since we're all ex-Christians here.

 

You say Jesus came first for the Jews, then for the Gentiles. Respectfully, here's another possibility. Jesus portrayed himself as the Jewish messiah, was called out for the fraud he is by his fellow Jews (he didn't fulfill the prophecies), and so a bunch of Jewish heretics sell him to Gentiles as an alternative messiah, knowing that they can twist biblical prophecy and hand it off to people who didn't grow up going to synagogue and learning about the actual messianic prophecies. Put yourself in my position: why should I believe the Christian perspective over the one I just suggested?