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Man Versus Animals


Margee
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I was just listening to something on evolution and it hit me like a ton of bricks -  two years into deconverting...

 

...... that gods  special plan included that we would battle against some of the most dangerous animals on this earth. If we were soooooooo special to god, would he not have made us as powerful as the dinosaur or the tiger or the killing spider? Whatever you do, don't Google tiger eating man.. cause it aint pretty.

 

So he gave us brains to think and weak bodies that can die very easily? How many times would it take to stab a dinosaur to death? I had a client who lost her husband due to a bee sting?? Why don't we have a stinger...Wendyshrug.gif  This is gods perfect plan?  Everyday, something new hits me and helps me to have confidence that letting go of the horrible story of the bible is the right path for me. I hope this helps somebody today that is having a hard time.

 

Christians (and other religions) open your eyes please!!! woohoo.gif

Check this list out!! Wendytwitch.gif

 

http://www.slideshare.net/FrankDiver/the-25-most-dangerous-animals-on-the-planet

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1)  Carbon-based life uses certain atomic elements;

2)  Carbon-based life requires energy;

3)  The certain atomic elements are found on the Earth;

4)  The energy comes from the Earth and the Sun;

5)  Carbon-based life is a collection of individual organisms;

6)  Individual organisms compete among themselves for acquisition of the certain atomic elements and energy.

 

These fundamental facts will answer many of your questions.  The "God" you mention is a fiction, not a fundamental fact.  Accordingly, the questions you pose about a fictional character have no reality-based answers.

 

If you assume the "God" you mention exists for purposes of discussion (which is what you are doing here), then your definition of that "God" needs to comport with the above facts.  In this context, the answers to the questions you ask above concerning this "God" will either (i) cause you to redefine the "God" in an interitive process, particularly with respect to any "omni" characteristics you previously assigned to this "God" (such as omnipotence, omniscience, omnipresence, omnibenevolence) or (ii) cause you to say, "I don't know".

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1)  Carbon-based life uses certain atomic elements;

2)  Carbon-based life requires energy;

3)  The certain atomic elements are found on the Earth;

4)  The energy comes from the Earth and the Sun;

5)  Carbon-based life is a collection of individual organisms;

6)  Individual organisms compete among themselves for acquisition of the certain atomic elements and energy.

 

These fundamental facts will answer many of your questions.  The "God" you mention is a fiction, not a fundamental fact.  Accordingly, the questions you pose about a fictional character have no reality-based answers.

 

If you assume the "God" you mention exists for purposes of discussion (which is what you are doing here), then your definition of that "God" needs to comport with the above facts.  In this context, the answers to the questions you ask above concerning this "God" will either (i) cause you to redefine the "God" in an interitive process, particularly with respect to any "omni" characteristics you previously assigned to this "God" (such as omnipotence, omniscience, omnipresence, omnibenevolence) or (ii) cause you to say, "I don't know".

 

I didn't think the questions were about a fictional character. I thought the questions were written for the purpose of challenging the beliefs of people who believe in this "God's perfect plan" nonsense.

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1) Carbon-based life uses certain atomic elements;

2) Carbon-based life requires energy;

3) The certain atomic elements are found on the Earth;

4) The energy comes from the Earth and the Sun;

5) Carbon-based life is a collection of individual organisms;

6) Individual organisms compete among themselves for acquisition of the certain atomic elements and energy.

 

These fundamental facts will answer many of your questions. The "God" you mention is a fiction, not a fundamental fact. Accordingly, the questions you pose about a fictional character have no reality-based answers.

 

If you assume the "God" you mention exists for purposes of discussion (which is what you are doing here), then your definition of that "God" needs to comport with the above facts. In this context, the answers to the questions you ask above concerning this "God" will either (i) cause you to redefine the "God" in an interitive process, particularly with respect to any "omni" characteristics you previously assigned to this "God" (such as omnipotence, omniscience, omnipresence, omnibenevolence) or (ii) cause you to say, "I don't know".

 

I didn't think the questions were about a fictional character. I thought the questions were written for the purpose of challenging the beliefs of people who believe in this "God's perfect plan" nonsense.

Crazyguy is correct, based on a fair reading of Margee's OP.

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Read my second paragraph.

 

I did read it. I don't know if I fully understood what you were saying or not, but I thought I did. Maybe I didn't?

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Agreed, Margee. And you are only mentioning the giant things we can see and fight from the outside (dinosaurs, tigers, and even bees). Don't forget all the tiny things on the inside that we can't see to fight (until recently with scientific development), like viruses and cancer and such. So many dreadful ways to die. Perfect plan, my ass!

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Agreed, Margee. And you are only mentioning the giant things we can see and fight from the outside (dinosaurs, tigers, and even bees). Don't forget all the tiny things on the inside that we can't see to fight (until recently with scientific development), like viruses and cancer and such. So many dreadful ways to die. Perfect plan, my ass!

 

But then again... If a god was responsible and is a sadist, then it's plan is a perfect one because suffering and death would have been the whole point.

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I was thinking similar things the other day Margee, I like watching shows about animals. There are so many that have claws and teeth that will help them defed themselves, or venom or a number of other things. A human beings best defence is their higher level of intelligence. Not that this will do much if you get attacked by a something like a bear...

 

Humans are one of the most ill equipped species around, we're just big walking neat bags lol.

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Guest Babylonian Dream

We are smaller and weaker because it allows us to run longer distances - science

 

It's because God made us that way - Religion.

 

Which one answers the question?

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Its true Bab we are a primate species built on endurance as a primary trait. Not to mention as we evolved the smarter we got the more successful we became at using tools which made strength less and  less important. If you think about it with all the crazy ways to die I this world we got to the top of the food chain for a reason. We are not as weak as one might think. however are we "perfectly suited to our environment" HELLL NO lol

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Guest Babylonian Dream

Its true Bab we are a primate species built on endurance as a primary trait. Not to mention as we evolved the smarter we got the more successful we became at using tools which made strength less and  less important. If you think about it with all the crazy ways to die I this world we got to the top of the food chain for a reason. We are not as weak as one might think. however are we "perfectly suited to our environment" HELLL NO lol

That's just the funny part, we've evolved to change the enviroment to try to make the "enviroment perfectly suited to our species".

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God made humans weak and other animals (like bears) strong just in case a gang of kids makes fun of a prophet of God and calls him baldy then God can send a couple of bears to maul the boys by the dozens.  God makes all things work together for good!

 

2 Kings 2:23-24

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/2kg/2.html

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God cursed the earth after Eden, didn't he?

 

Its all our fault.  We "sinned" and God put a curse on nature. Isn't that what the Bible teaches?

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Its true Bab we are a primate species built on endurance as a primary trait. Not to mention as we evolved the smarter we got the more successful we became at using tools which made strength less and  less important. If you think about it with all the crazy ways to die I this world we got to the top of the food chain for a reason. We are not as weak as one might think. however are we "perfectly suited to our environment" HELLL NO lol

That's just the funny part, we've evolved to change the enviroment to try to make the "enviroment perfectly suited to our species".

 

lol that is funny slowly but surely all your earth are belong to us

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I saw a nature program on TV a few weeks ago which pointed out that humans are "designed" to run further.It showed a video of a native African with a spear running after a hoofed deer-like animal. I would have bet on the animal, but it tired and stopped running. The spear got him. I had not known this before.

 

bill

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My guess is that Christians will blame 'the fall' for causing all the lovely, cuddly, vegetarian animals (like great white sharks) to turn into predators, and turning some plants, fungus, bacteria and virus's deadly.  Cause, you know, evolution didn't happen. This of course creates massive problems of its own (outside not conforming to the evidence available) such as what did the friendly predators eat, without causing any death or suffering?? I just don't see the function of rows of razor sharp teeth in a herbivore...and why don't plants 'die' anyway? I know the 'life is in the blood' cry of the fundies but even a child will tell you a plant is alive. 

 

Great point made Margee!! So many living things out there are fully equiped to kills us. We should be pleasantly surprised we survive any day. What is really interesting is that many deaths are not intentional, in that the animal/plant/bacteria/fungus/virus etc never intended to kill us for self-protection or food but just kind of accidentally did. Take the great white shark for example (I think about this a lot as I spend many hours in the ocean each year); scientists have concluded that the sharks don't attack humans out of a need for food. The great white is a curious creature that samples objects in its environment by biting them. They will bite just about anything and have often been found with large metal objects in their stomach. Unfortunately for us one bite can prove fatal as we often die rapidly from loss of blood. The sharks rarely actually eat us. They are usually just playing. Great design god!! And this tiny planet is the only one we know of where life as complex as humans is even possible. This means over 99.9% of the creation is a death trap and the tiny bit that is safe enough for human life is still incredibly dangerous. Designed for life; yeh, if you're a sadist! 

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God cursed the earth after Eden, didn't he?

 

Its all our fault.  We "sinned" and God put a curse on nature. Isn't that what the Bible teaches?

 

Yes, Deva! And before the fall, lions apparently would not have eaten Adam and Eve:

 

Genesis 1:29-30: "And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meatAnd to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, where-in there is life, I have given every green herb for meat; and it was so."

 

And then after the earth is saved again from man's sin one day (re-created?), the lions will go back to being herbivores again: Isaiah 65:17 and 25: “'For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; And the former things will not be remembered or come to mind... The wolf and the lamb will graze together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox; and dust will be the serpent’s food. They will do no evil or harm in all my holy mountain,' says the Lord."

 

So we are stuck in the meantime of being potential animal prey, and yes, it's all man's fault!

 

And it does beg the question that Wanderinstar pointed out: Why the lion's fangs for killing, and no molars for crushing vegetation?

 

If you're interested in more details about this argument (also describing and refuting the young earth beliefs), here is a nice little read: http://www.oldearth.org/teeth.htm

 

A few highlights:

- God knew the fall would happen, so he went ahead and gave lions fangs and made cheetahs fast.

(So yeah, he created man to fall and then suffer for it... nice.)

 

- Animals could have adapted quickly enough to survive (i.e. grow better teeth within a few generations). From my own experience, thinking Christians acknowledge adaptation of existing material that god already created, but not evolution per se, because full-out evolution denies god as the source of the original material.

 

I was also taught that Adam and Eve were vegetarians, and god first gave humans permission to eat meat when he said the following to Noah after the flood: Genesis 9:3: "Everything that lives and moves about will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything."

 

So, did Adam and Eve have canine teeth, or did Noah's offspring develop those too?

 

And how long did Noah and his family have to wait to eat meat, since there were only two of everything? They would have to wait until the animals repopulated the area. Rabbits for example reproduce quickly, but then the humans would have been competing with the other carnivorous animals to get them.

 

Anyway... it's all ridiculousness based upon absurdity.

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