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The saying "16 will get you 20" is true no matter what gender preferences are involved, but especially if there is religious motivation behind the disapproval.   Lilith, you already seem to have som

You aren't wrong for feeling that way at all!   ...........but I'd hold off on dating younger people in case his or her parents are crazy like that poor lady that was recently in the news.   You could

This^ what Burnedout said. You say you won't touch her but you say you are in contact, or potential contact, on Facebook. Thoughts like you describe can lead to unanticipated words and actions. Depend

I too wonder at how these retorts persist.

 

Because sometimes I grow tired of all the abuse I get from those two. 

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Galien gave good advice. She advised Lilith to follow the law even though US laws are rather retarded in some cases as they dont really take into account teenagers not too far apart in years getting interested in each other and having sex, which when you think of it is pretty normal sexual attraction. What is the really horrible crime - an 18 year old with a teen maturity having sex with a 15 year old with a teen maturity ... or a sophisticated 40 year old who knows exactly what to do to seduce a 15 year old? I think we both know, yet some asswipes have pressed courts to permanently assign registered sex offender status to 18 year olds forever because they did nothing more than have sex with a 15 year old. 

 

 

I don't know.  Can you explain it?  Why should 18 year olds be allowed to pass all the risks of sex to 15 year olds?  What are the ethics of it?  Are you saying that an older person knows it is a dirtbag thing to do but the 18yo still can't understand the ramifications?

 

 

I think what I'm saying is there is a natural attraction between teens and that declaring an 18 year old to be judged to be a sex offender for life due to acting on this natural attraction, while the 18 year old is still not necessarily a whole lot more worldly wise than a 15 year old is ridiculous. Yes, a law should be in place to protect teens from the risks of sex but I think permanent sex offender status is over the top. I also think hysteria about teen sex is over the top.

 

Yes, I am saying the older person knows it is a dirtbag thing to do by seducing a 15 year old. The older person has had years of life experience (maturity) making it easier to fool a naive teen or young adult while an older adult can smell bullshit and avoid it.

 

And no, teens don't always fully understand the ramifications of their actions since they have limited experience observing misfortunes of others. A parent would rather his child heed his grown up advice but some learning only takes place when a mistake is made. It's the different between real wisdom and parental rants.

 

Hopefully we arm our children with enough knowledge to give serious consideration about hopping in the sack with someone, consider birth control, STDs, pregnancy, etc, that they can make good decisions because kids are hormonal and age of consent laws may not really be important to two teens in love!

 

It just seems that sex offender laws designed with one purpose in mind (keeping dirt bag adults who should find someone their own age) are being used against 18 and 19 year olds who only have a thimble-full more of maturity than their 'victim.'

 

In my state if you are caught peeing outdoors you can be convicted of a sex crime and be required to register as a sex offender. Basic biological relief can get you a permanent record just because some blue-nosers have sex-o-phobia and pushed the law thru. How about punishment fit the crime. Revamp the laws a little bit.

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I think what I'm saying is there is a natural attraction between teens and that declaring an 18 year old to be judged to be a sex offender for life due to acting on this natural attraction, while the 18 year old is still not necessarily a whole lot more worldly wise than a 15 year old is ridiculous. Yes, a law should be in place to protect teens from the risks of sex but I think permanent sex offender status is over the top. I also think hysteria about teen sex is over the top.

 

Yes, I am saying the older person knows it is a dirtbag thing to do by seducing a 15 year old. The older person has had years of life experience (maturity) making it easier to fool a naive teen or young adult while an older adult can smell bullshit and avoid it.

 

And no, teens don't always fully understand the ramifications of their actions since they have limited experience observing misfortunes of others. A parent would rather his child heed his grown up advice but some learning only takes place when a mistake is made. It's the different between real wisdom and parental rants.

 

Hopefully we arm our children with enough knowledge to give serious consideration about hopping in the sack with someone, consider birth control, STDs, pregnancy, etc, that they can make good decisions because kids are hormonal and age of consent laws may not really be important to two teens in love!

 

It just seems that sex offender laws designed with one purpose in mind (keeping dirt bag adults who should find someone their own age) are being used against 18 and 19 year olds who only have a thimble-full more of maturity than their 'victim.'

 

In my state if you are caught peeing outdoors you can be convicted of a sex crime and be required to register as a sex offender. Basic biological relief can get you a permanent record just because some blue-nosers have sex-o-phobia and pushed the law thru. How about punishment fit the crime. Revamp the laws a little bit.

 

 

I mostly agree with that.  The sex offender registry is out of control with putting way too many crimes on there which shouldn't rate it.  I also think that most of our legislatures have failed to keep pace with the practice of sexting.  I'm scared to death that my kids will try that some day.

 

However when I turned 18 I had to face the same "jail bait" problem all men had to face.  I've had a lot of acquaintances who had a brother or nephew who couldn't figure it out.  The vast majority seem to get it even if they don't like the law.

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I think what I'm saying is there is a natural attraction between teens and that declaring an 18 year old to be judged to be a sex offender for life due to acting on this natural attraction, while the 18 year old is still not necessarily a whole lot more worldly wise than a 15 year old is ridiculous. Yes, a law should be in place to protect teens from the risks of sex but I think permanent sex offender status is over the top. I also think hysteria about teen sex is over the top.

 

Yes, I am saying the older person knows it is a dirtbag thing to do by seducing a 15 year old. The older person has had years of life experience (maturity) making it easier to fool a naive teen or young adult while an older adult can smell bullshit and avoid it.

 

And no, teens don't always fully understand the ramifications of their actions since they have limited experience observing misfortunes of others. A parent would rather his child heed his grown up advice but some learning only takes place when a mistake is made. It's the different between real wisdom and parental rants.

 

Hopefully we arm our children with enough knowledge to give serious consideration about hopping in the sack with someone, consider birth control, STDs, pregnancy, etc, that they can make good decisions because kids are hormonal and age of consent laws may not really be important to two teens in love!

 

It just seems that sex offender laws designed with one purpose in mind (keeping dirt bag adults who should find someone their own age) are being used against 18 and 19 year olds who only have a thimble-full more of maturity than their 'victim.'

 

In my state if you are caught peeing outdoors you can be convicted of a sex crime and be required to register as a sex offender. Basic biological relief can get you a permanent record just because some blue-nosers have sex-o-phobia and pushed the law thru. How about punishment fit the crime. Revamp the laws a little bit.

 

 

I mostly agree with that.  The sex offender registry is out of control with putting way too many crimes on there which shouldn't rate it.  I also think that most of our legislatures have failed to keep pace with the practice of sexting.  I'm scared to death that my kids will try that some day.

 

However when I turned 18 I had to face the same "jail bait" problem all men had to face.  I've had a lot of acquaintances who had a brother or nephew who couldn't figure it out.  The vast majority seem to get it even if they don't like the law.

 

 

I look at my teenage daughter and automatically think I will KILL anyone who touches her. :-) More cultural programming. I dunno. Maybe it is just built into fathers. It's hard to tell my teen daughter that I know that all boys are horny ... mainly because it is how I was as a teen. But we have had lots of those talks cuz I dont wanna be grandpa before she graduates high school next year.

 

:-) I'm glad we have laws to keep predators away from kids but I dont necessarily feel that an 18 year old kid is a predator just because of the arbitrariness of the law. Today you're legal, tomorrow...boom... your a perv. That's the other talk with your kid. The don't end up in jail talk. :-)

 

I was too painfully shy and lacking in confidence to have to worry about jailbait when I turned 18. lol.

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Galien mentioned reverse seduction. Young person seduces older person. I guess the adult isn't always the perpetrator nor is there necessarily always deceit involved. Sometimes there is just love.

 

But the parents of the teen may not think so. Thus, another good reason to have laws prohibiting these kinds of relationships. It prevents homicides. :-)

 

Ok, packing up shop before I get in further trouble.

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Young person seduces older person. 

 

That is what the older person always says.  It was those seductive alter boys who preyed upon the innocent priest.  Unless the adult is mentally retarded I'm not buying it.

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Galien mentioned reverse seduction. Young person seduces older person. I guess the adult isn't always the perpetrator nor is there necessarily always deceit involved. Sometimes there is just love.

 

But the parents of the teen may not think so. Thus, another good reason to have laws prohibiting these kinds of relationships. It prevents homicides. :-)

 

Ok, packing up shop before I get in further trouble.

 

Then the parents of the teen are in serious denial. A bit more of the good old my kid can do no wrong thing. Its bullshit, Just as well I knew that when I found out my kid tried to seduce a married bus driver when she was still at school and seventeen. No man was safe in a room with that girl from the time she turned fifteen. Don't assume girls that age are not horny. Some are, and some start at 13.

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Young person seduces older person. 

 

That is what the older person always says.  It was those seductive alter boys who preyed upon the innocent priest.  Unless the adult is mentally retarded I'm not buying it.

 

 

No didn't think so. You may as well still be a christian if your mind is that closed. Either that or actually get to know some real teenagers, You may be shocked by what you discover.

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That is what the older person always says.  It was those seductive alter boys who preyed upon the innocent priest.  Unless the adult is mentally retarded I'm not buying it.

 

 

No didn't think so. You may as well still be a christian if your mind is that closed. Either that or actually get to know some real teenagers, You may be shocked by what you discover.

 

 

Nobody is allowed to disagree with Galien.  I'm sure JA will be along to tell me how I'm responsible all the troubles in the whole world.  After all I disagreed with Galien.

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People can agree with me or not as they choose. Just so happens I have been through this stuff on both sides of the argument, but hey what would I know?

 

Big talker mymistake, but your listening skills suck.

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Nobody is allowed to disagree with Galien.  I'm sure JA will be along to tell me how I'm responsible all the troubles in the whole world.  After all I disagreed with Galien.

 

 

You have mental health issues, please address them. I am telling you this not as an insult but out of serious concern for you. You continually project your wrong doings onto others. You poke someone with a stick and when they react you're like "what did I do?". You accuse someone of saying something they didn't say and then say I am the one lying? You chose to argue with Galien over something you disagreed with then made it out that she was the one making it all about her. You are the one attacking and then you claim to be the victim? You are not a white knight. You are not a victim. You are however not healthy and you are delusional. Seek help.

 

And yes, if you chose to continually harass  and or attack Galien like you have in this thread I will not sit idly by and I will call you to task. You have already been proven wrong by the testimony of several people regarding your false claims about her yet you chose not to admit fault which was quite cowardly of you, but whatever. Hold onto your delusion if you will but no one else is in that world with you and only you can take yourself out of it.

 

Anyways, I'm done with this thread. I suggest you avoid Galien in this thread and vice versa as to respect Lilith's will, if that isn't too hard for you to quell your pride and selfishness.

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Nobody is allowed to disagree with Galien.  I'm sure JA will be along to tell me how I'm responsible all the troubles in the whole world.  After all I disagreed with Galien.

 

 

You have mental health issues, please address them. I am telling you this not as an insult but out of serious concern for you. You continually project your wrong doings onto others. You poke someone with a stick and when they react you're like "what did I do?". You accuse someone of saying something they didn't say and then say I am the one lying? You chose to argue with Galien over something you disagreed with then made it out that she was the one making it all about her. You are the one attacking and then you claim to be the victim? You are not a white knight. You are not a victim. You are however not healthy and you are delusional. Seek help.

 

And yes, if you chose to continually harass  and or attack Galien like you have in this thread I will not sit idly by and I will call you to task. You have already been proven wrong by the testimony of several people regarding your false claims about her yet you chose not to admit fault which was quite cowardly of you, but whatever. Hold onto your delusion if you will but no one else is in that world with you and only you can take yourself out of it.

 

Anyways, I'm done with this thread. I suggest you avoid Galien in this thread and vice versa as to respect Lilith's will, if that isn't too hard for you to quell your pride and selfishness.

 

 

 

 

JA there is no mention of Galien in post 21.  It is addressed to nobody.  It isn't an accusation.  It was a request.  I even said please.  There is no secret motive to my request.  I openly state my motive in post 21 in the second half of the first sentence.  And my motive is based on facts.  I have never said Galien told somebody to break the law.  That was your false accusation and I corrected it several times.  My disagreement was with the section I quoted several times and you admitted that Galien wrote - where she states that US law was wrong but that breaking the law wasn't wrong.  That was in my opinion the dangerous advise telling people that breaking the law is moral and the law is immoral.  Galien did in fact write that.  For asserting my opinion which was in disagreement with Galien I got three pages of wrath from you and her.  You made many false and inflammatory statements about me as did Galien.  I don't think that is right.  What false statement have I made about either of you?  Where did I sexually harass either of you?  Where did I defame your character?  Where did I say you have a mental illness?  I'm not the one who wrote those things.

 

I have the right to disagree with people and hold any opinion I wish.   My thoughts are not crimes.

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Sometimes breaking the law isn't wrong. You really have trouble with understanding these things don't you. Your moral development seems very immature. Check out kohlbergs theory of moral development if you don't know what I mean.

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I too wonder at how these retorts persist.

Because sometimes I grow tired of all the abuse I get from those two.

I don't think Galien should have commented about "pretty pink assholes," but I think for the most part you're being a little sensitive. You and Galien just had a misunderstanding. No offense, MM. :)

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I too wonder at how these retorts persist.

Because sometimes I grow tired of all the abuse I get from those two.

I don't think Galien should have commented about "pretty pink assholes," but I think for the most part you're being a little sensitive. You and Galien just had a misunderstanding. No offense, MM. smile.png

 

 

Yes, I'm over sensitive about it.  But then how long has it been going on?  Since December at least.  It only stops if I leave the forum.  How long would you last if it was happening to you?

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Perhaps you should stop biting mm

 

 

Right.  Never disagree with you about anything or else leave the forum forever.  You offer me such great choices.

 

 

Edit:

Okay Galien you get a season pass.  Say whatever you like.  Do whatever you like.  Run wild.  I will not comment for however long I can last.  I'll approach it as a personal challenge.

 

Just don't send me any more PMs.

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All right. Since all people want to do is argue and don't want to stick to the original topic, can we please lock this thread?

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Perhaps you should stop biting mm

 

 

Right.  Never disagree with you about anything or else leave the forum forever.  You offer me such great choices.

 

 

Edit:

Okay Galien you get a season pass.  Say whatever you like.  Do whatever you like.  Run wild.  I will not comment for however long I can last.  I'll approach it as a personal challenge.

 

Just don't send me any more PMs.

 

 

Haven't sent you any PM's this year. I really don't know what you are on about half the time. Must be interesting to be on the inside of your head. Do you honestly think I sit in my house hating you when I don't even know you? I have more than that going on in my life mate.

 

Its like this, please pay attention. We are socialised into believing the things we believe. I have pretty well desocialised myself. I have kept the things I find of value and jettisoned the rest. You still believe the rest. I don't. We are not going to agree on conventional wisdom because I think a lot of it is rubbish. We are never going to convince each other.

 

The point of having a forum is that we do get to run wild with our opinions, it is not going to change the way the world is. But it shouldn't be causing you this much distress. if it is you need to have a look at why. Most of the shit that goes on inside us, is in fact inside us and the way we react to external stimuli. We cannot do much about the external stimuli, but we can do something about our own reactions. Maybe you need to work out why my failure to conform to some conventional ways of thinking causes you such distress. Something to think about.

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All right. Since all people want to do is argue and don't want to stick to the original topic, can we please lock this thread?

 

 

Maybe before the thread gets locked, I could say something quickly, and hopefully I won't need to dodge any cannon balls. tongue.png *army crawls through thread just in case*

 

I don't think there is anything wrong with you for being attracted to someone of that age. After reading lots of what has been posted above (though I skimmed through quite a bit of it), it got me thinking. Here is a hypothetical situation: Let's say this 15 year old girl lived very nearby and was attracted to you as well. If that was the case and you did become sexually active and there was an equal amount of consent from both sides, though it would be illegal, I don't think it would be immoral or wrong.

 

It makes me think that there should be some better regulations for this stuff, something between 0 protection for young teens from predators and the other extreme of treating an 18 year old who has had sex with someone below the age of consent, even if the younger person gave 100% consent, as some sort of terrible monster that is forced to wear a sign around their neck for many years that says "SEX OFFENDER" on it. What the perfect middle ground could be, I honestly do not know, but there needs to be some kind of middle ground or option C that is better than options A and B, especially when "sex offender" makes the majority of people instantly think, "That person must be some kind of an abusive rapist!"

 

For the second part, I don't know 100% for certain that you are bi, though I do have a good reason to believe it is possible. From what I can tell, it seems you're still figuring out your sexuality and learning what you like and don't like, so it's probably not a good idea to make the conclusion that you are bi and just label yourself as such until you have figured everything out.

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Thanks, crazyguy. :)

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All right. Since all people want to do is argue and don't want to stick to the original topic, can we please lock this thread?

 

One more thing!  All this talk of legalities and stuff reminded me, though, don't some states have the Romeo and Juliet law tnat was recently implemented to protect teens close in age from being labeled as sex offender (if a student turns 18 and is active with their 16 year old boy/girl friend).  I think that was a major point of contention in that recent story about those two girls. Some people were upset she was not being protected under that. I don't know enough about it, though.  But, anyways, I suspect you were most worried about being sick and it's not sick. You're not sick, so don't worry about that aspect of it! 

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