Open_Minded Posted February 6, 2006 Share Posted February 6, 2006 Thanks everyone: Everytime I think I've asked every question I can ask, you all give me something more to think about... But this thread was started to discuss the "UNholiness of the Bible".... so..... As promised .... I PMd one of the moderators to find out if a Christian could post in Ex-Christian Life and then I started a new thread. Looking For Advice From Ex-christians http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?showtopic=6877 Catch you in Ex-Christian Life and thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotBlinded Posted February 6, 2006 Share Posted February 6, 2006 OK... last question, from me, about this issue. If fear of the devil is a big part of the picture... then what Bible verses are used to push this fear??? I don't think it is just the bible verses that do this. It's the whole thought of good and evil existing outside of oneself. That is exactly what the bible teaches with a literal understanding. This is nothing but lies and we believe these lies and produce good and evil, therefore, reinforcing the notion. Self-fullfilling destiny! We see the results but can't identify the cause. The cause is believing or putting every once of our faith into something that is just not true. When we believe there are forces operating that are not of us, we become fearful and start to judge ourselves and others. Walaa! Evil appears... I will teach my daughter that there is no force outside of herself that causes things to happen...good or evil. Good and evil is a result of what we believe. White Raven and Antlerman also allude to this issue of something out to get you or is judging you. As Antlerman said, this is the Satan the bible speaks of. Devils are nothing more than people that believe their own lies and deciept and those of others. The prince of lies (allegorical) has spoken and we have listened...and believed. It's not just biblical themes either. It is our very culture. We are always told we are supposed to grow up and make something of ourselves. What do those unspoken words say? They say that, right now, we are not something. We have to find something outside of ourselves in order to make something of ourself! Is it any wonder people are the way they are growing up in a culture that teaches that good and evil are forces outside of ourselves? I forgot this one: "There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and he who fears is not perfected in love." --1 John 4:18 That verse is very profound to me. Fear is caused by believing in something that is just not true. Perfect love will destroy fear because fear is based in lies, judgement and punishment. I'm not talking about the fear that is necessary for our survival, but fear that is based upon what we believe about ourselves and others. Love and peace is our natural state and if we are fearing something, we are not recognizing who we are. This is how I take this verse and it fits in with my understanding about the spiritual aspects of humanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saviourmachine Posted February 6, 2006 Share Posted February 6, 2006 What is it about the fundamentalist religion that causes people to distrust their own experience?Last sunday I was reading from Robert Wright ("Non-zero"). I suddenly combined the idea of "memes" with that of "trust". The cultural equivalence to genes, memes, propagate through mankind. They conquer minds, not because they contain truth 'an sich', but because they are trusted by the receiver. Every idea that someone encounters, will be trusted in some way, or not. At the end the most reliable ideas will survive, the ones that helps you best to cope with your environment, the concepts that are most related to the actual situation. This does give myself hope. People do not distrust their own experience, their experience is mainly formed by the environment in which they grow up. That's what we trust most. Third parties must have very good reasons to overcome this natural barrier. Edit: you => someone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotBlinded Posted February 6, 2006 Share Posted February 6, 2006 What is it about the fundamentalist religion that causes people to distrust their own experience?Last sunday I was reading from Robert Wright ("Non-zero"). I suddenly combined the idea of "memes" with that of "trust". The cultural equivalence to genes, memes, propagate through mankind. They conquer minds, not because they contain truth 'an sich', but because they are trusted by the receiver. Every idea that someone encounters, will be trusted in some way, or not. At the end the most reliable ideas will survive, the ones that helps you best to cope with your environment, the concepts that are most related to the actual situation. This does give myself hope. People do not distrust their own experience, their experience is mainly formed by the environment in which they grow up. That's what we trust most. Third parties must have very good reasons to overcome this natural barrier. Edit: you => someone Indeed, and if thoses memes are nothing but lies, it doesn't matter because it is truth to the perceiver. Why it is so difficult for third parties to overcome the barriers is because it is not up to the third party. It is up to the person that hold on to those beliefs. I have heard it put like this. Faith has nothing to do with religion. If every concept, every idea, is viewed as a brick, then faith is the mortar that holds it together. What matters is what those bricks entail. The advise given...don't believe yourself or believe anything anyone else tells you. This holds for abstract ideas not for ideas that a society agrees on like the meaning of words. It's more along the lines of right and wrong, good and evil. One's integrity will recognize the truth if their faith is not completely used up believing in lies. One has to free themselves from wrong beliefs if the truth is to be known. Oh...how true that is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrmarlin Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 Best I can do is infect others with a desire to live free of daMan and the System that holds our lives in its cold careless craw... I wish more folks gave a damn Ssel. Politics sucks, its a zero-sum game in which the pie is cut into smaller chunks until we need to make another. Other than the grammer, you sound a lot I did years ago. I changed my tune a bit when I discovered that there really IS a fix. Just getting it into a gear is a serious challenge, probably never to be in my hands. But it will happen anyway. ---- Now that I think about it, what you wrote there comes pretty close to the first truly "holy" law for all things. You needed a fix to be happy? Happiness comes from within, my friend. And you can't get that from any outside source, including God or Xianity. To believe this is just idiotic. And the real commandment as per the Dead Sea Scrolls was Thou Shall Not MURDER. There are distinct differences between kill and murder. Let me show using the old dictionary. Remember that book? Is it a vague memory somewhere in the back of your transom... Well, here you go, Cupcake. kill1 Audio pronunciation of "kill" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (kl) v. killed, kill·ing, kills v. tr. 1. 1. To put to death. mur·der Audio pronunciation of "murder" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (mûrdr) n. 1. The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice. Notice that kill is simply to put to death. Now you Xians should already know about that word being that enough people have been exterminated, killed in the name of Jesus. Murder has the words, unlawful and premeditated malice. Murder is much more heinous because of these three bitty words. Why? Because 1. it's unlawful in most countries to kill another human unless special mitegated circumstances....and 2. Because premeditated malice (malice meaning intent of violence) which means a person seeks out to kill. Killing a person because they threaten you or your children is not the same as a rapist who knowing goes out to a bar in order to prey on some unsuspecting victim. Killing for war, is a fight for some collective freedom -- hence, making it legal in the eyes of all laws, including your God's. Now if we are to go with these two definitions and look at the handy list the webmaster posted on how many people have been killed in the name of Jesus and for christianity, I believe you'll find in ALL cases it has been MURDER not merely kill. Therefore, the fact that you picked this particular commandment for your first offering is telling considering that Xianity as a whole has never been a good group to follow the Thou Shall Not Murder commandment. Also, I don't like your tone. Is this the way you try to convert people to Xianity.... Perhaps it's the very reason why christianity is DYING. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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