Voice Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 If you want to ease us off, dress modestly. It's common sense. If you want to dress super sexy, do it with a man at your side or with your loyal man servants who will guard you, or with your girlfriends. This is a parody, right? Right? Please? I guess it's good to sometimes have a reminder that rejecting Christianity doesn't confer upon a person any other particular positive attributes. You don't have any loyal man servants, Clara? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 You also smell funny! Ahem. Just kidding. I think it's important to note the difference between looking and leering - a beautiful woman/man enters the room and all eyes turn to them, fair enough, one pair of eyes stays on them, looking them up and down, focusing on their boobs or butt, turning their head to follow said butt across the room, beautiful person looks at butt looker, butt looker continues looking at butt. This is expected behaviour if said beautiful person is working in a strip club, maybe not so much if it's in a supermarket - that's the thing, most women don't want to be made to feel like a stripper in a strip club when they're just buying their cereal. Sure if they are dressed kinda strippery then maybe they do (and hey if that floats their boat personally I have no problem with that, but reserve the right to laugh to myself if it looks funny), but if they're dressed in the sort of clothing that may be perceived as 'immodest' by nice Christian bloggers because a bit of ankle is on show but still doesn't belong in the strip club, the leering is probably rather un-looked for. seriously doubt that it's one pair of eyes. Maybe you see one man do it but for every man you catch doing it there are probably 9 more doing it too. The guys who look you in the eye are merely leering at your eyes instead of some other body part. The guy who are not leering think that not doing it will get them laid. There is no connection between leering and rape. Oh, I understand women might fear rape from it but millions of men look without touching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExXex Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 Dude I didn't say anything about rape, I was more making a comment on polite behaviour! It's not polite to leer at a woman in the same way it's not polite to gawp at a disabled person - women don't like feeling like strippers, disabled people don't like feeling like zoo exhibits. There isn't any connection between gawping at disabled people and raping them/putting them in cages and feeding them raw fish, but still it's not welcomed behaviour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claireann Posted June 20, 2013 Author Share Posted June 20, 2013 As a Christian, I fucking hate it when a man--and that is every man despite any person preference I might have--refuses to dress modestly because he is forcing me sin by lusting after him, so I have compiled a list of things men can do if they don't want to find themselves being jumped by women. 1. Always wear a hat. Women are just naturally attracted to mens hair, or lack thereof, so cover those beautiful strands or bald head. But the hat must be worn properly or else we will get a glimpse of the head and go wild and viciously rape you. 2. Never wear an undershirt without an shirt on top. Wife beaters are like bras to us. If you show of the curvature of your torso, we will be forced to rape you. 3. Always wear sensible sleeves. A tank top on men is like the bikini to us women, and showing off those strong arms puts us into a frenzied sexual warpath that will result in you getting raped. 4. Wear your pants at your waist. Not at your hips or hanging below your butt. Us women are naturally drawn to look lasciviously at all mens crotches, so by wearing trousers that fit around the hips, it only facilitates us to find your crotch. The wearing of the trousers around or below the butt excites us even more to rape. 5. Wear shorts that are modestly short. The hem of the shorts should not go above the knee. 6. Full shoes must be worn at all times. Bare feet excites us. LOL. Also, don't forget to go swimming with a t-shirt on over your swim trunks, speedos will likely get you mobbed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 Dude I didn't say anything about rape . . . Sorry, I should have multi-quoted. I was trying to address points brought up by OG and VF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galien Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 Actually, wear a bag onyour head then the problem will be solved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Actually, wear a bag onyour head then the problem will be solved What problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OpheliaGinger Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Dude I didn't say anything about rape, I was more making a comment on polite behaviour! It's not polite to leer at a woman in the same way it's not polite to gawp at a disabled person - women don't like feeling like strippers, disabled people don't like feeling like zoo exhibits. There isn't any connection between gawping at disabled people and raping them/putting them in cages and feeding them raw fish, but still it's not welcomed behaviour. The whole modesty push is not to keep men and women polite but to control women by threatening that "immodesty" warrants rape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExXex Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Yeah I think I went a bit off topic haha, I was more explaining women's dislike of being looked at like meat in further depth, sorry for the confusion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Babylonian Dream Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 You also smell funny! Ahem. Just kidding. I think it's important to note the difference between looking and leering - a beautiful woman/man enters the room and all eyes turn to them, fair enough, one pair of eyes stays on them, looking them up and down, focusing on their boobs or butt, turning their head to follow said butt across the room, beautiful person looks at butt looker, butt looker continues looking at butt. This is expected behaviour if said beautiful person is working in a strip club, maybe not so much if it's in a supermarket - that's the thing, most women don't want to be made to feel like a stripper in a strip club when they're just buying their cereal. Sure if they are dressed kinda strippery then maybe they do (and hey if that floats their boat personally I have no problem with that, but reserve the right to laugh to myself if it looks funny), but if they're dressed in the sort of clothing that may be perceived as 'immodest' by nice Christian bloggers because a bit of ankle is on show but still doesn't belong in the strip club, the leering is probably rather un-looked for. That's creepy sociopathic behavior. I've had women do that to me before. And had a man do that to me, following me around a crowded park even, it was mad creepy. It's the nonbrief checking you up and down thing that bothers you right? Not when they just see boobies and a butt and your pretty face and say in their head "she;s cute" then continue on? This is what people get stuck on, is that there is a difference even between checking someone out from head to toe and leering. As a Christian, I fucking hate it when a man--and that is every man despite any person preference I might have--refuses to dress modestly because he is forcing me sin by lusting after him, so I have compiled a list of things men can do if they don't want to find themselves being jumped by women. 1. Always wear a hat. Women are just naturally attracted to mens hair, or lack thereof, so cover those beautiful strands or bald head. But the hat must be worn properly or else we will get a glimpse of the head and go wild and viciously rape you. 2. Never wear an undershirt without an shirt on top. Wife beaters are like bras to us. If you show of the curvature of your torso, we will be forced to rape you. 3. Always wear sensible sleeves. A tank top on men is like the bikini to us women, and showing off those strong arms puts us into a frenzied sexual warpath that will result in you getting raped. 4. Wear your pants at your waist. Not at your hips or hanging below your butt. Us women are naturally drawn to look lasciviously at all mens crotches, so by wearing trousers that fit around the hips, it only facilitates us to find your crotch. The wearing of the trousers around or below the butt excites us even more to rape. 5. Wear shorts that are modestly short. The hem of the shorts should not go above the knee. 6. Full shoes must be worn at all times. Bare feet excites us. I'm sorry my christian friend, but I'd much rather you be lusting after me than to dress modestly. Actually, wear a bag onyour head then the problem will be solved No, a burkino, so their sexy eyes won't show nor any bodily feature Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Babylonian Dream Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 See the whole arguements about leering at men back don't work so well, because most men actually like it done back to them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galien Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Actually, wear a bag onyour head then the problem will be solved What problem? If men wore a bag on their head, we wouldn't have to watch them behaving like 15 year olds. Nothing quite like having a fifty year old man leering at your 12 year old daughter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Dude I didn't say anything about rape, I was more making a comment on polite behaviour! It's not polite to leer at a woman in the same way it's not polite to gawp at a disabled person - women don't like feeling like strippers, disabled people don't like feeling like zoo exhibits. There isn't any connection between gawping at disabled people and raping them/putting them in cages and feeding them raw fish, but still it's not welcomed behaviour. The whole modesty push is not to keep men and women polite but to control women by threatening that "immodesty" warrants rape. Mathematically we can observe that, as women/men behave less modestly and more promiscuously, the higher the numbers and greater the severity of incidents they have to deal with regarding assertive behaviors toward themselves. You could do some simple studies on this yourself and try to disprove my hypothesis. I'll gladly look at your data, after which we can compare and discuss it and refine the hypothesis. Human behavior. Never black or white. Tension over this is way worse in America than other nations. Comparatively, Americans are sexually fucked up. Sort of off-topic, but not really: I recall an experimental kind of perfume that was released in the '90's, called Realm. It was said to be made with human pheromones, the good kind, like ovulation cycle kind. didn't hear much about how that went over. I'd be interested to hear anyone's observations if they had a chance to see it in action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OpheliaGinger Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Dude I didn't say anything about rape, I was more making a comment on polite behaviour! It's not polite to leer at a woman in the same way it's not polite to gawp at a disabled person - women don't like feeling like strippers, disabled people don't like feeling like zoo exhibits. There isn't any connection between gawping at disabled people and raping them/putting them in cages and feeding them raw fish, but still it's not welcomed behaviour. The whole modesty push is not to keep men and women polite but to control women by threatening that "immodesty" warrants rape. Mathematically we can observe that, as women/men behave less modestly and more promiscuously, the higher the numbers and greater the severity of incidents they have to deal with regarding assertive behaviors toward themselves. You could do some simple studies on this yourself and try to disprove my hypothesis. I'll gladly look at your data, after which we can compare and discuss it and refine the hypothesis. Human behavior. Never black or white. Tension over this is way worse in America than other nations. Comparatively, Americans are sexually fucked up. We're talking about rape here. How a woman is dressed statistically has no bearing on whether or not she is raped because rape is about domination and subjugation. Myth Women who are sexually assaulted 'ask for it' by the way they dress or act, rape only happens to young women. Fact Many women are led to believe that if they are not part of a certain category of women then they are 'safe' from being raped. Women and girls of all ages, classes, culture, ability, sexuality, race and faith are raped. Attractiveness has little significance. Reports show that there is a great diversity in the way targeted women act or dress. Rapists choose women based on their vulnerability not their physical appearance. Sometimes women see themselves as 'unworthy' or 'undesirable' because of their age or physical appearance and therefore 'safe' from rape. Some men joke or make comments about women's appearances or age to indicate whether she is sexually desirable or available, or as part of their defence in court, saying he thought 'he was doing her a favour', using her appearance or age. Women are raped from the age of three to ninety three. Rape is an act of violence not sex. link Women dress scantly because they know they have power over men and thus are not timid. It doesn't matter if a woman is wearing only pasties and grinding against you, you have the agency to not rape. You are responsible for your own behavior and not someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Actually, wear a bag onyour head then the problem will be solved What problem? If men wore a bag on their head, we wouldn't have to watch them behaving like 15 year olds. Nothing quite like having a fifty year old man leering at your 12 year old daughter. It's a wonder that the woman's movement can make any progress against your sexism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExXex Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Mathematically we can observe that, as women/men behave less modestly and more promiscuously, the higher the numbers and greater the severity of incidents they have to deal with regarding assertive behaviors toward themselves. Mathematically we can observe... 73% of rapes were perpetrated by a non-stranger, 38 being a friend or acquaintance, 40% take place in the victim's home. This suggests the more severe incidents aren't occurring due to men seeing a women on the street dressed alluringly. It seems that you don't understand the mindset of someone who gives women unwanted attention when they're clearly not happy about it and that's great, but various studies have shown rapists look for signs of submissiveness rather than sexuality, for example taken from this site - http://clubtroppo.com.au/2011/05/17/does-provocative-clothing-protect-women-against-rape/ 'While people perceive dress to have an impact on who is assaulted, studies of rapists suggest that victim attire is not a significant factor. Instead, rapists look for signs of passiveness and submissiveness, which, studies suggest, are more likely to coincide with more body-concealing clothing. (140) In a study to test whether males could determine whether women were high or low in passiveness and submissiveness, Richards and her colleagues found that men, using only nonverbal appearance cues, could accurately assess which women were passive and submissive versus those who were dominant and assertive. (141) Clothing was one of the key cues: "Those females high in passivity and submissiveness (i.e., those at greatest risk for victimization) wore noticeably more body-concealing clothing (i.e., high necklines, long pants and sleeves, multiple layers)." (142) This suggests that men equate body-concealing clothing with passive and submissive qualities, which are qualities that rapists look for in victims. Thus, those who wore provocative clothes would not be viewed as passive or submissive, and would be less likely to be victims of assault.' There's a wealth of information out there suggesting skirt length has no correlation to seriousness of unwanted sexual advances. As to trying it myself, I've been out in some outfits that I've practically been falling out of and have witnessed no increase in predatory behaviour. Sure I've been oogled and chatted up, but in places one goes to get oogled and chatted up and not in a threatening way. Maybe I've been lucky, but my luck more likely lies in not knowing any rapists. I reckon a normal man will be more likely to chat up a scantily dressed woman because her choice of outfit suggests she'll be open to said advances, so when after being approached she shows she isn't interested there's no impetus to carry on pursuing her, the illusion has lifted; time to move on! Unless you're a psychopath who sees women's clothing as an excuse to be a nob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Interesting. Now we're getting somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galien Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Actually, wear a bag onyour head then the problem will be solved What problem? If men wore a bag on their head, we wouldn't have to watch them behaving like 15 year olds. Nothing quite like having a fifty year old man leering at your 12 year old daughter. It's a wonder that the woman's movement can make any progress against your sexism. Call it what you like mate, it is what it is. To which you reply, I was born that way. Give me a break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Call it what you like mate, it is what it is. To which you reply, I was born that way. Give me a break. Complaining on the internet won't change the way 3.5 billion men are wired. It's right there in your own DNA. If you are mad at your own species then who has the problem? The first stage of the human mating ritual is a visual stage. Males and females communicate with looks and body language. Don't get mad at me, I didn't make it that way. I'm just the messenger. The visual stage saves time during stage 2 when the man tries talking and gets shot down 99% of the time. Without stage 1 the success rate might be zero. There are seven billion of us. The human mating ritual eventually works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BendyLine Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Can we have a discussion about this stuff without three pages of mymistake picking at Galien? I don't always agree with her either, but seriously, I think a couple of folks around here are obsessed or something. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Can we have a discussion about this stuff without three pages of mymistake picking at Galien? I don't always agree with her either, but seriously, I think a couple of folks around here are obsessed or something. Asking somebody to not call me a "dirty pervert" is picking on them? Asking somebody to not imply I am a child molester is picking on them? If that is the way you guys feel about it then I guess I should get my support somewhere else. This could have been mutually beneficial for everyone if not for all the "dirty pervert" cracks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galien Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Can we have a discussion about this stuff without three pages of mymistake picking at Galien? I don't always agree with her either, but seriously, I think a couple of folks around here are obsessed or something. Asking somebody to not call me a "dirty pervert" is picking on them? Asking somebody to not imply I am a child molester is picking on them? If that is the way you guys feel about it then I guess I should get my support somewhere else. This could have been mutually beneficial for everyone if not for all the "dirty pervert" cracks. You could try getting over yourself and not taking everything so fucking personally. What a sook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Babylonian Dream Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 Can we have a discussion about this stuff without three pages of mymistake picking at Galien? I don't always agree with her either, but seriously, I think a couple of folks around here are obsessed or something. Asking somebody to not call me a "dirty pervert" is picking on them? Asking somebody to not imply I am a child molester is picking on them? If that is the way you guys feel about it then I guess I should get my support somewhere else. This could have been mutually beneficial for everyone if not for all the "dirty pervert" cracks. You could try getting over yourself and not taking everything so fucking personally. What a sook. Well.... It was personal. You were talking about men who leer at women, and he is one of them, so he's defending why he does it. What's wrong with that? It was most certainly personal in that it referred to people like him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 Eh, I'm not so sure about that. One of the most horrifying things to me, admitting to myself that I prefer women, was that I found myself looking at other women the way I always hated it when men looked at me. But it's not something I can just stop, so I had to figure out what's really going on and what my ethical reaction to this new aspect of reality should be. And here's how it works for me: Some days I'm more in the mood to lust than others. Some clothes trigger lust in me more than others, but from talking to hetero men I've realized that not everyone's lust triggers are the same. If I see a hot stranger walking along, I don't know enough about them to want them as a person; all I know of them is their body. And my body reacts to that. So does some portion of my mind, throwing up images of what I'd like to do with that body. But the mintue one of those people I've been lusting after makes eye contact, or gets close enough to me that we're in conversation range, things... change. It's that shifting gears feeling you get when startled. The lust drops off, and the social part of my brain takes over and treats them like a real human being instead of a lust object. As long as that shift remains in place, and I never act on the lust (not saying that it's wrong to ask someone out - what I mean is that if I want any of my fantasies to be fullfilled with that person, I have to keep my physical distance and use words to ask, and take no for an answer, and just generally realize that I have absolutely no right to have any of my lust desires fulfilled by that other person), then it's ok. I'd say that even among commited, loving couple objectification can happen sometimes, and that's not always a bad thing. I'm sure there's some days where a partner says "I love you so much, I want to express that physically", and other days where it's "I want a physical release, and you're here, so you wanna help?" We are animals, after all. The problem is when you don't override the objectification with all the social stuff about consent and politeness and all that, when you think that your objectification is The Way Things Should Be and the entire purpose and function of some other human being. The lust, the objectification, is a fantasy inside your own head that doesn't reflect reality. Nothing wrong with having an imagination, but there's a serious problem when you can't tell your daydreams from reality. I think women use certain phrases as code words. If you were holding an assault rifle you wouldn't have felt right shooting that person your were "objectifying" prior to making eye-contact. You were treating them like a real human being the whole time. You have instincts to mate just like the rest of us. When you feel one of those instincts in your mind that isn't objectification. It's desire. Objectifying is what serial killers do to their victims just prior to killing those victims. Okay, contemplating rape with intent would be objectification too. Wanting to have mutually-affectionate sex isn't objectification. Other code phrases I've seen: "like a piece of meat" Uh, ladies I don't think this one communicates the idea you are getting across. I see so many women use that phase and when they do it sounds to men like "I sure wish I wasn't attractive". Why would a woman wish that she wasn't attractive? Maybe instead women are trying to say "Please don't stare because it is rude". Well if so then perhaps it would be better to say that instead. "He looked at me like I was a piece of meat" doesn't convey "staring is rude" at least not to a man. Humans mate because we are mammals. Looking is the early stage of the courtship rituals for humans. The vast majority of this looking results in one party not being interested in the other. The ritual doesn't progress when it's not mutual attraction. "Hey buddy, my face is up here!" "Yeah, well you're boobs are down there, partially exposed and I'm looking at em if you're putting them on display. Don't act like something is wrong with that." I worked with a large group of women who would make obvious note with secret smirks and smiles to each other whenever a beefcake male walked into the room who was fully clothed, so I think the above pretend disgust about gawking is just part of the game humanity plays. Both sexes do it. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galien Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 Can we have a discussion about this stuff without three pages of mymistake picking at Galien? I don't always agree with her either, but seriously, I think a couple of folks around here are obsessed or something. Asking somebody to not call me a "dirty pervert" is picking on them? Asking somebody to not imply I am a child molester is picking on them? If that is the way you guys feel about it then I guess I should get my support somewhere else. This could have been mutually beneficial for everyone if not for all the "dirty pervert" cracks. You could try getting over yourself and not taking everything so fucking personally. What a sook. Well.... It was personal. You were talking about men who leer at women, and he is one of them, so he's defending why he does it. What's wrong with that? It was most certainly personal in that it referred to people like him. Ok, the first comment I made was a Joke. Ffs keep up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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