directionless Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 I never had any success experiencing the Holy Spirit while I was trying to be a Christian, but I know some people genuinely feel they experience something. Here is my theory to explain that: I think our brains are full of subconscious processes - just like a computer has services/daemons running behind the scenes. In fact, I think when people experience demons it is simply one of these irrational subconscious processes coming out from the shadows. So I think some people are able to turn over control of their speech to their own subconscious and it feels like an outside entity inspiring them. Any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipVanWinkle Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 Never did I feel or experience any feeling that I attributed to the holy spirit. As far as "gifts", at first I thought that I might get one or more of the gifts that I saw or thought I saw in other Xtians if I kept on with Xtian growth. After a while it dawned on me that those Xrians with "gifts" had not received them from the holy spirit; it was part of their makeup which they had with or without Xtianity. This was part of the slow process of the scales falling from my eyes in my march toward deconversion. bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamecock1973 Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 I am CONVINCED that the most straightforward reading of the new testament teaches that the holy spirit SHOULD BE active today in the same way he was in the book of Acts. According to the bible, we SHOULD see manifestations of power, healings, etc. This is PROMISED to those who believe. It is only the obvious lack thereof (ummm...errr..ummm...so embarrassing) which has caused evangelicals to LAMELY go back and interpret the creation of the bilbilcal canon as a replacement for these signs and wonders (this is some incredible theological acrobatics). I mean, supposedly the spirit of the ALMIGHTY CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE dwells WITHIN the believer!!!!! Seems like they should be a little different than the rest of us...alas... With that in mind, those who try to sincerely read the new testament and believe the promises given to them will certainly CRAVE some sort of real power for change in their lives and the lives of those around them. I think a lot of the charismatic gifts movement is really wish fulfillment. It is a fantasy...a kind of break from reality, if you will. When i was in this camp, i would "open myself up" to the Holy Spirit and could feel a chill go down my back. I could lay hands on people in prayer and my hands would tremble. In retrospect, I never actually saw ANYTHING tangible...not one healing, not one manifestation of power. Even my own "experiences" were just self-created reactions to my own desires. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pratt Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 never really got those "extra ordinary gifts" such as tongues and prophecy department though,,,, however, one of the pastoral team says i got the pastoral gift,,,,,, so that was one of the excuses that i never got to speak in glibberish though i really wanted during that time,,,,,, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
directionless Posted June 19, 2013 Author Share Posted June 19, 2013 I am CONVINCED that the most straightforward reading of the new testament teaches that the holy spirit SHOULD BE active today in the same way he was in the book of Acts. According to the bible, we SHOULD see manifestations of power, healings, etc. This is PROMISED to those who believe. It is only the obvious lack thereof (ummm...errr..ummm...so embarrassing) which has caused evangelicals to LAMELY go back and interpret the creation of the bilbilcal canon as a replacement for these signs and wonders (this is some incredible theological acrobatics). I mean, supposedly the spirit of the ALMIGHTY CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE dwells WITHIN the believer!!!!! Seems like they should be a little different than the rest of us...alas... With that in mind, those who try to sincerely read the new testament and believe the promises given to them will certainly CRAVE some sort of real power for change in their lives and the lives of those around them. I think a lot of the charismatic gifts movement is really wish fulfillment. It is a fantasy...a kind of break from reality, if you will. When i was in this camp, i would "open myself up" to the Holy Spirit and could feel a chill go down my back. I could lay hands on people in prayer and my hands would tremble. In retrospect, I never actually saw ANYTHING tangible...not one healing, not one manifestation of power. Even my own "experiences" were just self-created reactions to my own desires. Thanks, it's interesting to hear from somebody who was on the inside (so to speak) of the charismatic experiences. I was always on the outside wondering what was wrong with me. I gave up on Christianity the first time (in college) for this reason. My second attempt at Christianity a few years ago resulted from a mental breakdown that caused me to have hallucinations and delusions. I thought they were spiritual attacks and visions, so that made me think Christianity might be true. But gradually I came to my senses. I never experienced any of the charismatic gifts, so I'm curious to hear from people that did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
directionless Posted June 19, 2013 Author Share Posted June 19, 2013 Damn, I can't edit my posts yet due to being a newbie. I got my comments mixed into the quote from Gamecock1973. I think newbies should be able to edit right away, because they are more likely to screw up. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Margee Posted June 19, 2013 Moderator Share Posted June 19, 2013 I think it all depends on the type of church and personality one has. I am extremely intuitive and very sensitive.....am empath as such. I've been told by many, many people that I am a natural fortune teller. Because of my own type of personality, I was able to receive all these so called 'gifts' very easily. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthKoopa Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 Lol it's all a bunch of garbage. I was always part of the charismatic churches. I can still speak in tongues even though I don't believe. All the healings and words of knowledge. I can't believe I was duped into believing it for so long. It makes me sad to see people still caught up in it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
directionless Posted June 19, 2013 Author Share Posted June 19, 2013 I think it all depends on the type of church and personality one has. I am extremely intuitive and very sensitive.....am empath as such. I've been told by many, many people that I am a natural fortune teller. Because of my own type of personality, I was able to receive all these so called 'gifts' very easily. I've wondered if certain denominations attract certain personality types. The people with the wrong type of personality to experience the charismatic gifts might tend to go to denominations that don't think they are important. People that like theology due to their personality might be attracted to denominations that emphasize that. People that like rituals might gravitate to liturgical denominations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
directionless Posted June 19, 2013 Author Share Posted June 19, 2013 Lol it's all a bunch of garbage. I was always part of the charismatic churches. I can still speak in tongues even though I don't believe. All the healings and words of knowledge. I can't believe I was duped into believing it for so long. It makes me sad to see people still caught up in it. It would be interesting to perform a function MRI (or whatever the correct test would be) to see brain activity while a person speaks in tongues - especially if there are ex-Christians like yourself that would be willing to go under the microscope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kolaida Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Lol it's all a bunch of garbage. I was always part of the charismatic churches. I can still speak in tongues even though I don't believe. All the healings and words of knowledge. I can't believe I was duped into believing it for so long. It makes me sad to see people still caught up in it. It would be interesting to perform a function MRI (or whatever the correct test would be) to see brain activity while a person speaks in tongues - especially if there are ex-Christians like yourself that would be willing to go under the microscope. Yeah, that would be really cool. I'd be interested in the brain activity, too!! My parents were very rigid/reserved in their beliefs and usually picked churches that were, too. Like my parents never even threw hands up during worship and we sure never regularly attended any churches that spoke in tongues. The ONE time we wound up at a church that did (surprisingly a Baptist church supposedly), my whole family just kind of all exchanged wide eyed glances with each (and we took up a whole pew, all six of us) like, "What is going on?" It was a weird experience because almost the WHOLE congregation started speaking all at once. I honestly felt nothing and apparently no one else in my family did, either. But, still, it was an interesting experience. I almost wanted to go to another church that did stuff like this just to see/hear it. But that pastor went on for like two hours and even started crying hysterically at some point in the sermon. As Margee said, though, it really depends on the church. Some of the churches we attended (quite a few due to military moves) actually preached AGAINST speaking in tongues and acting disorderly in the name of the Spirit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
directionless Posted June 22, 2013 Author Share Posted June 22, 2013 Lol it's all a bunch of garbage. I was always part of the charismatic churches. I can still speak in tongues even though I don't believe. All the healings and words of knowledge. I can't believe I was duped into believing it for so long. It makes me sad to see people still caught up in it. It would be interesting to perform a function MRI (or whatever the correct test would be) to see brain activity while a person speaks in tongues - especially if there are ex-Christians like yourself that would be willing to go under the microscope. Yeah, that would be really cool. I'd be interested in the brain activity, too!! My parents were very rigid/reserved in their beliefs and usually picked churches that were, too. Like my parents never even threw hands up during worship and we sure never regularly attended any churches that spoke in tongues. The ONE time we wound up at a church that did (surprisingly a Baptist church supposedly), my whole family just kind of all exchanged wide eyed glances with each (and we took up a whole pew, all six of us) like, "What is going on?" It was a weird experience because almost the WHOLE congregation started speaking all at once. I honestly felt nothing and apparently no one else in my family did, either. But, still, it was an interesting experience. I almost wanted to go to another church that did stuff like this just to see/hear it. But that pastor went on for like two hours and even started crying hysterically at some point in the sermon. As Margee said, though, it really depends on the church. Some of the churches we attended (quite a few due to military moves) actually preached AGAINST speaking in tongues and acting disorderly in the name of the Spirit. I've never actually seen anybody speak in tongues. I've heard that people who speak in tongues find the experience "edifying". Maybe speaking in tongues is a healthy behavior for anybody who is capable - much like meditation. Maybe it's a way for the brain to dust off some cob webs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissingLink Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 I am currently reading a book entitled why we believe in god(s) by J. Anderson Thomson, Jr., MD. Using brain studies, neuroscience, psychology, etc., he offers a fascinating study on how the mind generates religious belief (and all of the manifestations we associate with it). It's definitely worth reading if you are interested in this topic. (And it's a short, easy read - not a huge volume). Or if you have an hour, here he is on a YouTube video. Why We Believe In Gods I actually got to hear him speak about a month ago at a local college - which is where I bought his book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 I am CONVINCED that the most straightforward reading of the new testament teaches that the holy spirit SHOULD BE active today in the same way he was in the book of Acts. According to the bible, we SHOULD see manifestations of power, healings, etc. This is PROMISED to those who believe. It is only the obvious lack thereof (ummm...errr..ummm...so embarrassing) which has caused evangelicals to LAMELY go back and interpret the creation of the bilbilcal canon as a replacement for these signs and wonders (this is some incredible theological acrobatics). I mean, supposedly the spirit of the ALMIGHTY CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE dwells WITHIN the believer!!!!! Seems like they should be a little different than the rest of us...alas... With that in mind, those who try to sincerely read the new testament and believe the promises given to them will certainly CRAVE some sort of real power for change in their lives and the lives of those around them. I think a lot of the charismatic gifts movement is really wish fulfillment. It is a fantasy...a kind of break from reality, if you will. When i was in this camp, i would "open myself up" to the Holy Spirit and could feel a chill go down my back. I could lay hands on people in prayer and my hands would tremble. In retrospect, I never actually saw ANYTHING tangible...not one healing, not one manifestation of power. Even my own "experiences" were just self-created reactions to my own desires. The holy spirit moves through us .... but doesn't really perform any useful tasks. :-) You are correct that if the hs is indeed in us, some powerful miracles ought to be happening. Because they dont happen the Christian has to save face with some apologetic BS about "inner spiritual transformation" and subconsciously lower his expectations of what the hs actually does. "Do not put the Lord your God to the test! (For he shall surely fail the test) :-) Christians are the puppet master of Jesus since he can't really do anything on his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
directionless Posted June 23, 2013 Author Share Posted June 23, 2013 I am currently reading a book entitled why we believe in god(s) by J. Anderson Thomson, Jr., MD. Using brain studies, neuroscience, psychology, etc., he offers a fascinating study on how the mind generates religious belief (and all of the manifestations we associate with it). It's definitely worth reading if you are interested in this topic. (And it's a short, easy read - not a huge volume). Or if you have an hour, here he is on a YouTube video. Why We Believe In Gods I actually got to hear him speak about a month ago at a local college - which is where I bought his book. Thanks, Julilyn. I haven't watched the video yet, but it sounds interesting. I don't know much about this topic, but it's something I want to learn about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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