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Genuine Love


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Some of the most genuine displays of love I have witnessed in my life are those reunions of soldiers and their families.  Seemingly both have sacrificed for each other.  Seems like a hightened example of what is expressed in the Bible. 

 

Don't bother, it can all be explained away logically,...evolution, blah blah.

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Explained away? I don't get why having a physiological explaination makes the emotion itself any less meanful or legitimate. Same way the best musicans and visual artists have practiced their technical skills in order to make the artistic side better; the art comes when your technical skills are so developed that you don't have to think about them any more and can focus on the big picture. But you still do sketches or practice scales to maintain your skills. I mean, you do have to get past the technical drills for it to become art, same way you'll be emotionally messed up if you avoid facing your emotions by telling youreself they're "only chemical". But that doesn't mean you can make good art without some technical skills, or that understanding the physicolocal aspect of your emotions detracts from your capacity to experience and value life.

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Some of the most meaningful displays of love I've seen came from non-Christians.  Maybe only God can explain it.  But that doesn't mean Jesus is God or has anything to do with it at all.  In fact I'd say Jesus is antithetical to love because he tells you to hate your mother and father, etc.

 

It makes sense to me that non-Christians display love.  What I have trouble understanding is how anyone who calls himself a follower of Jesus can exhibit love.  Indeed, it seems to me that the most loving Christians are loving because they are bad Christians who ignore the more hateful teachings of Jesus.

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Some of the most genuine displays of love I have witnessed in my life are those reunions of soldiers and their families.  Seemingly both have sacrificed for each other.  Seems like a hightened example of what is expressed in the Bible. 

 

Don't bother, it can all be explained away logically,...evolution, blah blah.

Are you talking about modern day U.S. soldiers? Reunions of German soldiers and their families in 1945?  Other?

 

I'll assume you are talking about modern day U.S. soldiers.

 

Maybe those soldiers are willing to, if need be, lay down their lives for their country. That country would include, among people who are thankful for them, people who hate them, don't care, and are idiots. Maybe they are willing to do this with no foreknowledge that they will be alive again and famous in three days no matter what happens. Maybe they also volunteered to do what they did. Maybe their Dad didn't have to send them;  maybe they went on their own.

Maybe their families, or at least those of them that are old enough to understand, know that they also serve by sitting and waiting.  

Maybe they did all serve. If one soldier and his or her family can show, with one reunion, a heightened example of the love that is expressed in the Bible, maybe the love that is expressed in the Bible isn't all that special at all.

 

If you are trying to compare such a thing to Jesus and his Bride, let me point out that your soldier Jesus is sitting in Heaven in charge of all the firepower, while his Bride is getting the shit kicked out of her to the point where large parts of her wants a divorce.

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Some of the most genuine displays of love I have witnessed in my life are those reunions of soldiers and their families. Seemingly both have sacrificed for each other. Seems like a hightened example of what is expressed in the Bible.

 

Don't bother, it can all be explained away logically,...evolution, blah blah.

Some of the most disgusting displays of love I have witnessed in my life are victims of Stockholm syndrome and their captors. SEEMINGLY both have sacrificed for each other. Seems like a hightened example of what is expressed in the Bible.

 

Don't bother, it can all be explained away apologetically, metaphorically,...Christianity, blah blah.

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I found the Bible or rather Jesus' teachings, to contain a story of love - (e.g the love a parent feels for a child kind of love).   The love that Jesus supposedly showed, was of being willing to die for those who were against him ie to die for his enemies not just for those who loved him.  (Roms 5:7,8).    There's a story (not sure if it's true) of a priest during the second world war who was a prisoner.  One day the Nazi guards were going to shoot one of the other prisoners for some 'misdemeanor' , and the priest volunteered to be shot in that prisoner's place.  No greater love has a man that he give his life for his friend.  The priest was shot instead.  Now if that guard had been threated by his superior and had a gun pointed at him and was going to be shot, would the priest have put up his hand and volunteered to die instead of the Nazi guard?  Probably not.  Jesus supposedly did volunteer to die for such a man.  That is very great love surely?  It goes contrary to the survival instincts.  I can understand how we evolved to sacrifice our lives for our loved ones or friends, as we're protecting our genes in the next generation etc, but being willing to die for an enemy makes no sense from an evolutionary point of view surely?  Interesting.............

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I think they are silly for wanting to lay down their lives unnecessarily. I wouldn't.

 

Genuine love comes from having a deep value for the soul of the other. It is pretty rare these days, sadly.

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Genuine love comes from having a deep value for the soul of the other. It is pretty rare these days, sadly.

This. ^

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Some of the most genuine displays of love I have witnessed in my life are those reunions of soldiers and their families.  Seemingly both have sacrificed for each other.  Seems like a hightened example of what is expressed in the Bible. 

 

Don't bother, it can all be explained away logically,...evolution, blah blah.

 

For many years I genuinely believed god loved me and the most clear demonstration of that was through him sending his son Jesus. This was the truth I lived and breathed daily, I was no 'sunday' christian. Through those years I had experienced many great trials and explained them as god testing me, maturing me, it could of been worse etc. About five years ago my physical heath crashed, I lost my career due to this, but I remained very strong in faith. As I had many questions I spent many hours reading the bible to find my answers; god loved me and had a plan for my life, or so I thought. In the following years my mental health collapsed (PTSD/Depression) and my marriage became a prison, still I was confident god loved me and had a good plan for my life. Things deteriorated. Several times I begged god to help me not kill myself, to give me strength, to comfort me; I made five attempts on my life and came very close to dying on one. God never showed up, never helped me and the christians he sent either ran away when I became unwell or made things worse for me (a few close friends excluded). I never wanted to lose my faith, I was confident I would take a bullet before denying christ but once I saw the historical and biblical evidence, combined with my experience, I realised the christian god never did exist, and if by chance he did exist he is a complete asshole. 

 

End3, you keep coming back here to post but continuously ignore the wealth of evidence provided here that crushes most arguments for the christian god. My simple question is, 'Where was your god, MY god, when i cried to him for years but only received worsening conditions an,d no comfort in return; when I was pure in heart in my prayers and sincere in faith, and gave generously even beyond my ability???'

 

And if you give me the foot prints reply, I would like to know how is it loving to just watch me suffer for so long, needlessly. No good has come out of the last five years, except perhaps to be free from the confines of religion. god did not carry me in my darkest hour. Non christian nurses and doctors carried me and medical science though medication and professional psychotherapy is healing me where no christian ministry could (oh, and I tried all christian ministry/support before finally having a breakdown).

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Science leads to understanding.  It doesn't explain it away.

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Great love is expressed in many books, poems, plays and works of art. The Bible goes farther than most in that the love depicted there is so wonderful it can make one turn his back on his family and even lovingly send one to an eternity of suffering.

 

BTW, the connection mentioned regarding religion and war is valid. The most vicious and barbaric warriors always have always had their god on their side, be it Jehovah, Allah, Odin, or Republican Jesus.

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Genuine love can be explained by science, but nobody "explains it away". As knowledge and understanding of that love and where it comes from, doesn't take away from it, but it enhances it, letting you further know how real it is as you already know its real to you.

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Great love is expressed in many books, poems, plays and works of art. The Bible goes farther than most in that the love depicted there is so wonderful it can make one turn his back on his family and even lovingly send one to an eternity of suffering.

The products of love CAN result in those things.....I can personally testify. I believe the point to be moving towards a higher love. Grace moves us past our family turning, exiling "eternal damnation" immature love.

 

The relationship I was trying to describe is one between sacrifice and love....but most here turned it into "we non-believers can love too". I don't think that was remotely my point. I will take responsibility for not making myself clear.

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Besides, a chemical reaction is as real as it gets. I'd rather have love go off in my brain like a stockpile of rocket fuel than have it be some kind of creepy mind control by a (notoriously fickle and controlling and jealous and needy and sadistic) god:

Abraham, go sacrifice your son to prove you love me. Oh, it was a joke, bro. Just kidding! That makes it okay, right? No. No it doesn't. That's emotional abuse. Just like the abuser who threatens the family dog if the spouse wants to leave. You don't love me enough, so I'll stomp on the puppy. Prove you love and trust me, Abraham, so go kill your son.

Yes, love as a hard-wired chemical reaction emergent through natural selection? It's not just what we have evidence for, it's preferable in every respect. (Prairie Voles! They're so cute together.)

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The relationship I was trying to describe is one between sacrifice and love....but most here turned it into "we non-believers can love too". I don't think that was remotely my point. I will take responsibility for not making myself clear.

 

No, I understood your point, but it was you who threw in the gratuitous plug for the Bible as if that book invented the concept.

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The relationship I was trying to describe is one between sacrifice and love....but most here turned it into "we non-believers can love too". I don't think that was remotely my point. I will take responsibility for not making myself clear.

No, I understood your point, but it was you who threw in the gratuitous plug for the Bible as if that book invented the concept.

 

No sir, stay on track with what I said....love can result in those "evil" things happening. The fact that it states this in a roundabout manner in the Bible is untrue how???

 

Like brother Bhim in post #2.....non-Christians can do ALL of those things if not better. Where in the hell did even start across with those points? I am talking patterns, types, relationships, similarities, etc.

 

Great sacrifice via a soldier and great sacrifice of the loved ones at home = great/extreme joy in the reunification.

 

Hello McFly, does wedding supper have any place here?

 

I digress, y'all complain about not enough Christian to eat, but then won't pay attention to the actual question the Christian is asking in lieu of your own crappy closed thought patterns. NO suffering, no compromise of thoughts equals no love, i.e. no God.

 

Morons.

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The relationship I was trying to describe is one between sacrifice and love....but most here turned it into "we non-believers can love too". I don't think that was remotely my point. I will take responsibility for not making myself clear.

No, I understood your point, but it was you who threw in the gratuitous plug for the Bible as if that book invented the concept.
No sir, stay on track with what I said....love can result in those "evil" things happening. The fact that it states this in a roundabout manner in the Bible is untrue how???Like brother Bhim in post #2.....non-Christians can do ALL of those things if not better. Where in the hell did even start across with those points? I am talking patterns, types, relationships, similarities, etc.Great sacrifice via a soldier and great sacrifice of the loved ones at home = great/extreme joy in the reunification.Hello McFly, does wedding supper have any place here?I digress, y'all complain about not enough Christian to eat, but then won't pay attention to the actual question the Christian is asking in lieu of your own crappy closed thought patterns. NO suffering, no compromise of thoughts equals no love, i.e. no God.Morons.

The bible also states in a roundabout way that unicorns existed. And it states in a rather direct way that there was a talking donkey.

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The relationship I was trying to describe is one between sacrifice and love....but most here turned it into "we non-believers can love too". I don't think that was remotely my point. I will take responsibility for not making myself clear.

No, I understood your point, but it was you who threw in the gratuitous plug for the Bible as if that book invented the concept.

 

No sir, stay on track with what I said....love can result in those "evil" things happening. The fact that it states this in a roundabout manner in the Bible is untrue how???Like brother Bhim in post #2.....non-Christians can do ALL of those things if not better. Where in the hell did even start across with those points? I am talking patterns, types, relationships, similarities, etc.Great sacrifice via a soldier and great sacrifice of the loved ones at home = great/extreme joy in the reunification.Hello McFly, does wedding supper have any place here?I digress, y'all complain about not enough Christian to eat, but then won't pay attention to the actual question the Christian is asking in lieu of your own crappy closed thought patterns. NO suffering, no compromise of thoughts equals no love, i.e. no God.Morons.

 

The bible also states in a roundabout way that unicorns existed. And it states in a rather direct way that there was a talking donkey.

 

Just thinking Rank you are the perfect example of a talking donkey....

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Great love is expressed in many books, poems, plays and works of art. The Bible goes farther than most in that the love depicted there is so wonderful it can make one turn his back on his family and even lovingly send one to an eternity of suffering.

The products of love CAN result in those things.....I can personally testify. I believe the point to be moving towards a higher love. Grace moves us past our family turning, exiling "eternal damnation" immature love.

 

The relationship I was trying to describe is one between sacrifice and love....but most here turned it into "we non-believers can love too". I don't think that was remotely my point. I will take responsibility for not making myself clear.

 

 

Oh, well, yes, there is often a connection between sacrafice and love. However, there's also connections between sacrafices and codependence, between sacrafices and fear. And I'm pretty sure the difference has nothing to do with "selflessness" as that term is often used; people who sacrafice out of love often have experienced similar sacrafices in return. It's ok to sacrafice a little for someone you're hoping may love you in the future, but do too much of that and you start to come off like you're trying to bribe someone into loving you, like forcing unwanted gifts on someone obligates them to you. The thing with love is that when the love is mutual, the sacrafice is worth it because the other person's happies is tied to your own.

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The relationship I was trying to describe is one between sacrifice and love....but most here turned it into "we non-believers can love too". I don't think that was remotely my point. I will take responsibility for not making myself clear.

No, I understood your point, but it was you who threw in the gratuitous plug for the Bible as if that book invented the concept.

 

No sir, stay on track with what I said....love can result in those "evil" things happening. The fact that it states this in a roundabout manner in the Bible is untrue how???

 

Like brother Bhim in post #2.....non-Christians can do ALL of those things if not better. Where in the hell did even start across with those points? I am talking patterns, types, relationships, similarities, etc.

 

Great sacrifice via a soldier and great sacrifice of the loved ones at home = great/extreme joy in the reunification.

 

Hello McFly, does wedding supper have any place here?

 

I digress, y'all complain about not enough Christian to eat, but then won't pay attention to the actual question the Christian is asking in lieu of your own crappy closed thought patterns. NO suffering, no compromise of thoughts equals no love, i.e. no God.

 

Morons.

 

 

 

I pay attention to what you say here but I see no reason offered to support your claims.  You just make assertions.  The ideas are loosely connected at best and you are not interested in what you might have gotten wrong.

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Morons.

 

I sorry I don't meet your intellectual standards. 

 

How about this: By God, you're right! The Bible mentions love so the book must be true!

 

Do I sound any smarter now?

 

Back on topic, love doesn't require sacrifice but sacrifice, if required, will demonstrate that love to others. I don't know why it's important for others to know how much you love someone, but there it is.

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Don't Hindus have that love within their family?

Don't Muslims? D

on't Mormons?

Doesn't every religion?

Don't agnostics?

Don't atheists?

 

If you answer "no" to any of the above questions you are sadly mistaken and are living a lie. bill

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The relationship I was trying to describe is one between sacrifice and love....but most here turned it into "we non-believers can love too". I don't think that was remotely my point. I will take responsibility for not making myself clear.

No, I understood your point, but it was you who threw in the gratuitous plug for the Bible as if that book invented the concept.

 

No sir, stay on track with what I said....love can result in those "evil" things happening. The fact that it states this in a roundabout manner in the Bible is untrue how???

 

Like brother Bhim in post #2.....non-Christians can do ALL of those things if not better. Where in the hell did even start across with those points? I am talking patterns, types, relationships, similarities, etc.

 

Great sacrifice via a soldier and great sacrifice of the loved ones at home = great/extreme joy in the reunification.

 

Hello McFly, does wedding supper have any place here?

 

I digress, y'all complain about not enough Christian to eat, but then won't pay attention to the actual question the Christian is asking in lieu of your own crappy closed thought patterns. NO suffering, no compromise of thoughts equals no love, i.e. no God.

 

Morons.

 

 

 

I pay attention to what you say here but I see no reason offered to support your claims.  You just make assertions.  The ideas are loosely connected at best and you are not interested in what you might have gotten wrong.

 

So quantify love. There ought to be a genius out there who can do that. I know, I know, we will be able to do it someday.

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