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Unravelling


pops
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Afternoon all, 
I'm in a bit of a predicament here in that i am still in the process of deconverting. 

It still feels naughty to say certain things about what i think out loud, even on my own. especially on my own.
 

I'm lucky i guess in that my husband and i are going through this together, he was born into is and raised in a very fundie evangelical family,which to be fair he did not fit in with terribly well due to his contast questioning! he's had 35 years of programming and is coming out of it via the angry road.
I got in via falling in love with him and so voluntarily swallowed the camel. I have 15 years in this.
 

Now logic, critical thinking, reason have finally cracked the surface and the pat prepared answers are not enough, i am not so much on the angry road, but ticked off fairly often!
We have two sons, both very emotional and open minded souls, and we are trying so hard to work out what our position is now so that we do not screw them up, our eldest is at a CofE school.

 

But in trying to work out what is left, if aything of my all consuming deep and emotional faith, i find i am just looking for another label, another hat. 
It's frightening, constantly wondering "am i pushing this too far? is this ok? can i really throw all this out?" 

My head is like spaghetti!

 

i've lurked a bit and like what i read, so if it's ok, i will hang out here some more and see how things go smile.png

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If your head is like spaghetti, perhaps you should become a Pastafarian (too easy)!  :)

There's no need to rush anything.  Enjoy your freedom.  Free-thinker is a good label.  I was a free-thinker even when I was still a fundamentalist Christian.

 

Peace.

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If your head is like spaghetti, perhaps you should become a Pastafarian (too easy)!  smile.png

 

so good ^_^ 

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Welcome!  It is great that you two are going through it all together so you can share your thoughts and be open with each other.  That's a luxury many of here simply did not have.

 

Regarding taking the angry road... I did that and still do from time to time.  Some of my posts here reflect that.  It is angering to realize you spent a massive amount of your life centered around a fairy-tale and what makes it worse is the fact that it's designed to do exactly that. 

 

Welcome to club. :)

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Welcome to the hard road out. Take your time and do it with care and thought. Be sure to talk with your husband all along. (You are so very lucky that you are both together on this.) Keep your kids in on the process carefully and thoughtfully too. You'll all probably be fine, but there will be bumps in the road.

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You are incredibly lucky to be going through this with your spouse. Lean on each other for support. Once you come out, things may get...bumpy...

 

I think that the best approach with the kids is one in which you don't tell them what to believe, but simply teach them critical thinking skills (e.g. "how do we know what we know?"). You can of course tell them what you now believe and what that will mean (e.g. not going to church as a family), but make it clear that their beliefs are their own and you will love them the same regarless.

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Thankyou, it's interesting that my parents took exactly that tack with me - they are very much 'love is all you need' types and were accepting of whatever i chose.

:)

 

I wasn't prepared for how scary it is to go through this. I have to hope that time will bring some relief

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pops, thanks for sharing! You are very lucky that you and your husband both are questioning this issue. You will be able to help one another. So many here suffer greatly because one of the spouses do not want to even question the Christian god. It makes it very hard on a relationship. I am also very lucky that my husband lets me be who I am. (actually, he have no choice in the matter rolleyes.gif ) I was going to be who I was even if he did leave the relationship. I was ready to  be true to myself.

 

It takes awhile. For some, once they realize the truth about the bible, they instantly don't look back. That was not my case. It took a long time. When you've been told all your life that 2+2=5..... and then years later, a mathematician corrects you......it  can be difficult to accept that the real answer is 4. It takes time to wrap your head around it.

 

I'm glad you're here with us my friend!!

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One of the reasons religion succeeds is that it's meant to be a hat. Most religions you choose will give you that same feeling. When I de-converted, I chose no hat and decided to just see all the hats as hats. It's a pretty good view, clear above the clouds. I recommend it.

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Welcome! Having a supportive spouse is definitely a plus. My wife didn't grow up in a fundie church like I did, and she still calls herself catholic. She's pretty supportive of my "journey" and mostly okay with my atheism. She'a also pretty open to talking about it with me, and the fact that we have different views has kept me grounded. I know everyone else here has said the same, but I'll say it too: you are very lucky to have a supportive spouse; losing your faith can be a pretty rough experience, and you don't have to go through it alone. :)

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woke this morning having had some very weird dreams, and instantly my mind went back to the old habits of trying to attach meaning, coincidence. This is frustrating.
I sighed when I looked at my bookcases, bending under the burden of so many devotionals and different versions of the bible (!) and books by other people trying to help me fix myself according to a system that is supposed to say" you cannot be fixed, you're irreparably broken and here's a perfect image to try to live up to just so you can horribly fail and then we can say I told you so..."
Part of me wants to chuck it all out. part of me is scared to in case I get some nasty cosmic consequence. part of me is just poking, like a tongue in a sore tooth...

today I shall mostly be....thoroughly vexed!

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I've chatted with the other half this evening over dinner - he mentioned wanting to start a blog to air his thoughts and questions so i told him about this site :) 
it was a good discussion, he might turn up here eventually ;) 
(if so, alright there fella!) 
 

nice time of just sitting and relaxing, breathing - instead of praying - tonight. 
still scared, but pushing on through because i'm also determined to be free. 
 

thanks again to all on here xxx

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Hi Pops!!

 

Welcome! And yes, it is a confusing time, this deconversion process. My advice is to be true to yourself--and I mean this in the most philosophical, epistemological, and ontological sense. Only believe things that make sense and/or feel right with your brain. It's when we try to assuage cognitive dissonance by making up nonsensical reasons, to support already nonsensical beliefs, that we really get messed up. Gawd. My brain was way out there in Loony Toons FundieVille making sense of the senseless for way too long. Wendycrazy.gif

 

Maybe you could try journalling about what you believe/don't believe and why/not. It might help unmuddle your brain.

 

Oh, and enjoy your non-porous mind: God is not watching. smile.png

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I have been writing in a journal actually! Seemed like the only way to keep all my ducks in a row.

A friend has lent me a book by Walter Wink which I think is about Jesus as an enlightened human a la Buddha.

 

I've decided to read it because I am a grown up and i can :D

Don't know where it will go but I am free to read what I like (and I always was!)

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woke this morning having had some very weird dreams, and instantly my mind went back to the old habits of trying to attach meaning, coincidence. This is frustrating.

I sighed when I looked at my bookcases, bending under the burden of so many devotionals and different versions of the bible (!) and books by other people trying to help me fix myself according to a system that is supposed to say" you cannot be fixed, you're irreparably broken and here's a perfect image to try to live up to just so you can horribly fail and then we can say I told you so..."

Part of me wants to chuck it all out. part of me is scared to in case I get some nasty cosmic consequence. part of me is just poking, like a tongue in a sore tooth...

today I shall mostly be....thoroughly vexed!

Maybe the dreams do have meaning?  Jesus doesn't need to exist for them to have meaning.

 

And great point about self-help books.  Just think, their market could never be exhausted because we could never be good enough, yet they write books on trying to accomplish just that. 

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You may want to box up the Bibles and books you have on the shelves, and start replacing them with new reading material. My experience is that reading these kinds of materials, like engaging in prayer and other religious rituals, only lenghthens the time it takes to experience the joy of being freed from religion. In other words, fill the old ideas about how to live and think with new and better ideas.

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I recommend cold turkey. After the brainwashing of religion, you will find little things pop out from among the religious chatter. They are designed to make you think, "Maybe I was too hasty. Perhaps God is speaking to me and I just have to listen harder." 

 

Forget labels, just believe that for which there is evidence, use logic and reason, and you can still have an open mind. Having an open mind doesn't mean you should believe by faith the things other people make up.

 

It gets better with time.

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You may want to box up the Bibles and books you have on the shelves, and start replacing them with new reading material. My experience is that reading these kinds of materials, like engaging in prayer and other religious rituals, only lenghthens the time it takes to experience the joy of being freed from religion. In other words, fill the old ideas about how to live and think with new and better ideas.

I agree. We all can attest you won't likely be struck down for doing so

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woke this morning having had some very weird dreams,

 

 

Maybe the dreams do have meaning?  Jesus doesn't need to exist for them to have meaning.

 

 

 

 

They were naughty dreams about Sherlock holmes.....

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got quite aggravated this morning when remembering stuff I have said and done entirely convinced that it was God or God's will , so embarrassing - then got such a slap across the face when I remembered very clearly being told by our pastors wife that my post natal depression after my eldest was born was because we weren't married.
we married when he was 1 year old.
I felt sick when I remembered this, and poor husband had a wobbly lower lip to deal with very early this morning!

I think there's going to be more stuff like that floating to the surface, the scum, as it were.
 

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They were naughty dreams about Sherlock holmes.....

 

Hmm, I'm no dream analyst but it sounds like you are longing for a relationship with someone you consider to be a strong rational thinker.

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He he he :D

Other half is one of those for sure, but he's working through his own stuff atm

Dream analysis aside, Sherlock is brilliant. Almost as good as Dr Who :)

 

---

 

I was asked to pray for a friend's sister. Hmm hadn't considered my position on that. I don't want to start randomly telling people my turbulent innermost thoughts, I don't know what they are myself, and that got me to thinking that I am angry and rejecting of the church and the hoops and small print but not at god or whatever.

And I felt like I wanted to still relate or communicate or something like prayer.

I am feeling weird about god as something other than anthropomorphic . That'll be the next stage then I suppose!

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And the scales have fallen from my eyes, I voluntarily surrendered my own choices and kowtowed to the opinions of the people who i trusted to guide me, they were the voice of experience, they knew more than me.

 

I always had the right to read whatever i wanted, but the weight of disapproval and threats of nasty consequences or isolation kept me in line.

 

Lovely phrase i have just learned: the toothpaste is out of the tube

And no one can get it back in :)

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