Guest lvdyou Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 Colin writes, "Concerning the 185,000 Assyrian troops, I have not looked into this in any detail to see the Hebrew words actually used, but it does seem to me, in principle, likely that it refers to 185 troops, because the word for "thousand" is also the same word as the word for "troop". If the troop size was about 10 people, this would mean about 1850 men were killed. As you say, this seems much more reasonable. I suspect this numbering problem in the OT is quite pervasive. It is curious that translators have not understood all of this! (Colin)". Colin J. Humphreys agrees with this findings of mine in the Spirit when he responded so beautifully, "I am sure you are correct and there were not 10 billion people at the time of the flood. My own view is that the very large numbers in the book of Genesis were often based on symbolic numbers. These numbers had a special meaning to the writer and the original readers, but we may have lost this meeting today. For example, the numbers 3, 7, 12 and 40 occur regularly in the Bible and clearly have a special significance. In the early chapters of Genesis the number 60 also occurs frequently. it may not be a coincidence that the number 60 also occurs frequently in ancient Mesopotamian literature. With best wishes. Colin". http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/MiraclesofExodus.htm There you have it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Neil Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 "How to explain the large numbers in the Bible!" Why does anything in the Bible need to be explained at all? Shouldn't the Bible, if it's inerrant, be able to convey its message to everyone, including those people who are apparently responsible for mistranslations? I've never quite gotten beyond the notion that God's perfect message to mankind has to be translated and interpretted in order for all people to understand. Certainly God knew this wouldn't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reach Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 "How to explain the large numbers in the Bible!" Why does it need to be explained at all? It seems to me that this inherent need for apologetics defeats the notion that the Bible is inerrant, because if it truly was, then you wouldn't need to do what you're doing. Indeed! Can't one mean one and two mean two and three mean three and four mean four and five mean five? So, if you can follow this train of thought, when you get to ten billion, ten billion means ten billion. Sheesh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Neil Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 lol... I changed that statement a little, Reachy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saviourmachine Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 If you can't count, why are you bothering scientists? If you can't count more years than 6000, or can't see further than 6000 light years, or can't count pseudogenes in DNA from humans and apes, or ice layers, or craters on earth, or radioactive decay rates etc. why bothering us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saviourmachine Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 And why did these people in the bible live more than 900 years? It's a pity Einstein, Maxwell, Kant didn't live that long. Waste of time! They only appear in a tale now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reach Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 Why does anything in the Bible need to be explained at all? Shouldn't the Bible, if it's inerrant, be able to convey its message to everyone, including those people who are apparently responsible for mistranslations? I've never quite gotten beyond the notion that God's perfect message to mankind has to be translated and interpretted in order for all people to understand. Certainly God knew this wouldn't work. I caught your edit. Much better. To our apologist, If you believe in a creator God, then surely you believe he created humans with the capacity to communicate. With that assumption in mind, the Bible shows us that there is some effort on both the part of this God and mankind to communicate with each other, God with us, us with God and with each other. Now why is there this massive failure of God to communicate properly to his creation, in ways that are clearly understood by one and all and why do we not agree about what he is allegedly saying in the Bible? The failure rests with your creator God. He who has authority is responsible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vixentrox Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 So...what your saying is...god can't count? Or are you saying that god intentionally allowed errors creep into his holy word? If he cant even keep numbers straight in his book, how can you expect anything else to be reliable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveL Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 Hi all, I'm more inclined to believe Master Yoda lived 900 years than any of those dudes in the bible. Both were great pieces of fiction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reach Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 So...what your saying is...god can't count? Or are you saying that god intentionally allowed errors creep into his holy word? If he cant even keep numbers straight in his book, how can you expect anything else to be reliable? He was impotent to preserve his word in such a fashion that it would be clearly understood by one and all, for all of time, regardless of language or cultural differences. Or, perhaps, he overdid his curse of confounding the peoples' languages at the Tower of Babel. Ooooopssssss... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reach Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 Both were great pieces of fiction. Hi Dave! I like a great story too. Historical fiction is my favorite genre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tiffany Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 "How to explain the large numbers in the Bible!" Why does anything in the Bible need to be explained at all? Shouldn't the Bible, if it's inerrant, be able to convey its message to everyone, including those people who are apparently responsible for mistranslations? I've never quite gotten beyond the notion that God's perfect message to mankind has to be translated and interpretted in order for all people to understand. Certainly God knew this wouldn't work. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I hope this Apologist isn't a hit and run poster, I want to hear him/her explain away this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ nivek ♦ Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 For a Universal Message daBiibull is one fucked up piece of scholarship and and even worse work of *art*... If biBullgohwd is such an omni-whatdafuckever being, why then is that message, "so simple, so sweet" the cause of so much hatred and killing done in this being's name? n Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmallStone Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 If the troop size was about 10 people, this would mean about 1850 men were killed. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yeah, and if the troop size was about 1,000,000 people, then this would mean about 185,000,000 men were killed. However, after careful research, I've also determined that if the troop size was 1, then 185 men would have been killed. <edit> After more research, I've discovered -the- way to determine troop size. Here is a quick HOWTO: 1. Visit this link. 2. Set the 1st box to "1" 3. Set the other boxes however you wish. 4. Test the generated value to see if it seems 'reasonable' or not. 5. If you are happy with the results achieved in #4, you are done. Congratulations. You are a first rate apologist. 6. If you are unhappy with the results achieved in #4, go to step #3. </edit> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryten Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 It is curious that translators have not understood all of this! (Colin)". <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes, curious that all of the translators who know the involved languages better than you would have been screwing the translations up so badly all these past few centuries. Why don't you enlighten them? I'm sure they would be open to some teaching from you and other apologists-- after all, they do devote their lives to this subject, so surely they want to be more correct. They must have overlooked their prime directive when they did their work, and forgot it was all about fixing contradictions and not about translating the words and ideas into modern language. Help them out, won't you please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dustmouse Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 Well, now we all know LvdYou can't be a real True Christian..... They don't believe a perfect inerrant literal translation of the Bible.... Shame on you LvdYou! Side Note to TAP and others of decent Christian bearing, I am j/k! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lvdyou Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 What makes you think I don't believe in the literal teaching of the Bible? I do. http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/Christianity.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vixentrox Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 What makes you think I don't believe in the literal teaching of the Bible? I do. http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/Christianity.htm <{POST_SNAPBACK}> So...seen many talking snakes and asses lately? How about burning bushes? Sun stopping in the sky? Face it, your holy book is not different than any other religion's myths. All stupid and designed by primitive man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Neil Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 Don't forget about those satyrs and unicorns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atheist_thinker Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 What makes you think I don't believe in the literal teaching of the Bible? I do. http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/Christianity.htm <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Would you believe cows can fly over the moon if sombody said so? Jumping on the ass-umption bandwagon never truly answers a dam thing. Nobody today lived back then to vouch for what happend but all we got is a bunch of mixed scripters thats been translated re-mixed and edited to suite what ever the desires of the current tyrant . It is all word of mouth and superstions passed down through the ages. I don't know about any one else but I'm not taking the word of some superstitious bronzed-aged people that had a unrealiable way of record keeping. Back then they had no science or any system to verify what happend. The way history works is that there is always two sides to a story and most of the time, who ever wins a conflict, or is in power at the time decides what goes in there. The other times is that there will be that other side to either oppose it or support it but there is nothing out there that is reliable. It is also no coincidence either that most of the biblical historians are biased in their views so they can claim biblical hsitory from any source they choose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lvdyou Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 You shouldn't take the opinion of today's biased modernists who think they happened all by themselves as if they are the center of the universe. Christians don't believe that. It is really dumb to think that you as the center of the universe had no cause since all things in nature have cause and effect. This is the pride of life of man. Scriptures have been fully proven and error free. People don't just give their lives on word of mouth. The apostles were right with Jesus and they gave their lives for Jesus. And those that immediately followed were also martyed. You ought not to favor the mass murdering of people who believed in not murdering people for no reason at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asimov Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 You shouldn't take the opinion of today's biased modernists who think they happened all by themselves as if they are the center of the universe. Christians don't believe that. It is really dumb to think that you as the center of the universe had no cause since all things in nature have cause and effect. This is the pride of life of man. ??? I've never heard of any modernist who thinks they are the center of the universe. That's a silly notion, because there IS NO CENTER OF THE UNIVERSE. You are commiting the fallacy of composition. Scriptures have been fully proven and error free. People don't just give their lives on word of mouth. The apostles were right with Jesus and they gave their lives for Jesus. And those that immediately followed were also martyed. Ah, well I guess that disproves the idea that any of them wrote the gospels in 70 AD+ You ought not to favor the mass murdering of people who believed in not murdering people for no reason at all. You ought not to favor the mass murdering of people either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lvdyou Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 Since you agree you were created, then what is the problem? Christians don't murder so I don't have that problem as you do. John the Apostle was not martyred. He wrote the book of Revelation around 95 or 96 A.D. If you agree we were created then you can see our creator in Christ since Christ was selflessly sinless and murdered. Not standing up for what is right is your sin and is hellbound. How sad for you. You are a bad person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Demona- Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 Christians don't murder so I don't have that problem as you do. John the Apostle was not martyred. He wrote the book of Revelation around 95 or 96 A.D. Christians don't murder? Well, I guess this means the Inquisition, the Crusades and Salem witch trials were all a hallicination shared by all of humanity? Yeah, right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveL Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 What makes you think I don't believe in the literal teaching of the Bible? I do. http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/Christianity.htm <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The evening news is full of half truths, so how can you believe the mystic rants of a bunch of ancient old men. Even contemporary stories can be misintepreted, that's human nature (nothing to do with God). Take a step back...think without your groups dogma and mind control. Then will you see where many of us are coming from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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