We Really Don't Have Any Privacy Rights...

[Guest]

I've lived in this apartment now for almost 2 years.  I wasn't even here a month when I was first visited by the local jehova witness church.  I made it very clear that I was not interested and this was a no soliciting complex.  Well, over the next 2 years I estimate they visit me about every month, maybe every other month, though they tend to catch me only about every 3 months, because my schedule rotates around odd times.  But it is always a Saturday, always the same church, and they always leave something in my door jam if Im not home.  This, I know, happens to us all.

 

However, I feel I am being harassed by this specific church because of how frequently I tell them to never come back to my door.  So yesterday I did what I am loathe to do in any situation, but I had reached my limit; I called the cops to file an harassment charge on the church.  The officer who arrived was very nice but much to my surprise told me they have every right to come to my door as often as they want and I can do nothing about it because they are doing it in the name of religion.  They are exempt from apartment complex rules forbidding soliciting just as they are exempt from anti-discrimination laws mandating employment to blacks or women.  They only way I can truly isolate myself from them is to live in a gated community, which, because of the ritzy are I live/work in, I can not afford.

 

I asked what would happen if I went to a private citizens residence every month and try and talk to them about something they didn't want to talk about, could they file a harassment charge against me and the answer was yes, because I would not be doing that on behalf of a religion.  There is absolutely nothing I can do to stop a church from deciding that me as a private citizen is a salvation case and needs their constant attempts to be preached at.  They only come to my door.  My neighbors are perplexed as they have never been bothered in years of living there.  Every time I chase them away I see them drive away, not go on to the next building.

 

In the past, where I used to live, I've played games with them, like testing to see if they are "true" christians by drinking bleach before coming inside to talk to me because of Mark 16:18 "they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well."  But I have a very different life now and don't have time to deal with this, and the cop told me that if I answered the door naked (I asked him) I could get arrested, even though I would be within the confines of my home when I did it.

 

But the one common thread I have noticed is they bring their children with them, which really angers me.  But this morning I realized how I can fight them and win.  I will speak to their children and ignore the adults like they weren't even there.  Simply kneel down and look them in the eye and say, "You know, jesus and god aren't really real.  Its just made up to get kids to eat their vegetables and go to bed just like Santa Claus is.  And when you grow up they want you to give them your money and listen to all the silly rules they have saying you cant have any fun.  But don't believe me, you know how to work a computer.  Look up what evidence there is for jesus and you will find out that he is a mixture of a lot of older gods and stories of god put together.  Don't believe what I say, and don't believe what your parents or your pastor says.  Believe what you yourself have discovered through research.  People will lie to you for many reasons, but you will find your church will lie to you for 2 things, power over your life and the money from your pocket.  Don't believe me; look for these things yourself in the next couple of years and you will discover the truth for yourself."

 

I doubt very much I would be able to get that far into my speech unless Im yelling down the staircase as they are leaving, but my hope is that perhaps, I could reach an inquisitive child who may not realize he could answer his questions himself here on earth, and doesn't have to wait until he meets god to have things make sense.  (That's what I was told as a child)...Or at the very least put the fear of their kids souls into the adults so they will finally blacklist my apartment and never come back!

[Vigile]

Ask him what will happen if you start answering them with a bucket of water.

[Margee]

Hi Marty. I understand your frustration.

 

It was a regular thing at my house for a long time. At the last going off, I decided to have a bunch of articles on 'born again' Christianity (They really dislike Pentecostals) and I told them I might consider listening to all they had to say, but not until they read all my information on becoming 'saved'. I told them that they did not have the 'truth'. I was adamant about it. I would not talk to them until they read my 'material' on how to be 'saved' properly. It took less than 5 minutes.

 

They agreed to read my stuff but never returned. I was quite friendly about the whole thing. For some reason, we haven't had them around the neighborhood for quite some time. And I am very glad. I think your idea of telling the kids would do it! Personally at this point in my life...I would resort to telling the kids .......  as much as I do not like children becoming involved with all the adult bullshit we pass on to them. It may be a good thing for the kids to hear and it probably will chase the Jehovah's away from you. They do seem to eventually give up and surrender that there are people who are not open to their silly discussions..

 

I am also in the process of getting an unlisted phone #. I'm soooo tired of the people invading my private space!!!!!

 

Good luck my friend.

[MissingLink]

Wow!  I always thought that if you told them not to come back, they weren't supposed to!

 

Years ago, before I had a spine to speak of, I had 2 Jehovah's witnesses who showed up every 2 weeks.  I didn't have the courage to "be rude" and tell them I wasn't interested and not to come back.  (I was a christian then - United Methodist).  Anyway, after their 4th visit where I let them basically hold me hostage at my door for almost an hour listening to them, I had had enough.  Since they always came at the same time, I made sure I wasn't home the next time, and left a strongly worded (for me) note on my door telling them to not come back.  And they didn't. 

 

So I don't know what is motivating these two  to target you like that!  I like your idea of speaking to the children.  If nothing else, it would have to piss them off.  You would think they wouldn't want their children to hear what you have to say.

 

What if you just don't answer the door?  Maybe turn some music up really loud (I leave it to your imagination what music you could play) and leave them standing out there for as long as they want to.

[◊ crazyguy123 ◊]

If you want them to stay away, the next time they go to your door, invite them in to worship Satan with you. That should send them running for the hills.

[SilentLoner]

Maybe you can't answer the door naked, but how about in a g-string or speedo? 

[RankStranger]

I'm sure it varies by local ordinance, so the cop may be right.  But I don't think it's really been established that religious proselytizers are exempt from the solicitation rules in your area.  I wouldn't take a cop's word for it- there's a good chance that he doesn't know and just wants you to quit bothering him.  It might be worth your time to look it up.

[leopardus]

Just invite them in and read to them. Start with Hitchens, then Dawkins, and show them some videos from good atheist apologists. Ask them to address theses issues.

You might hand them the list of 101 scipture contradictions as a tract. http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/57125-101-bible-contradictions/?hl=contradictions

I did this with some peskly Mormons years ago. They blacklisted my house.

[Sk0606]

I told them we worship satan in our home and invited them in. That was the last time they came to my door.

[ExCBooster]

Jehovah's Witnesses, eh? If it's that specific, you can tailor the argument to strike at the heart of their religious belief.

 

Fun questions for Jehovah's Witnesses:

So, tell me about all those failed prophesies? (What do you mean you never heard of that?? Why, you really ought to do your research on your own religion!)

How about that blood transfusion refusal thing? You'd think Jehovah would have "changed his mind" long before it cost the lives of innocent people. Or maybe there was a mistake. That's what happens when you have fallible men at the helm.

How about that thing with the United Nations? Oh, you didn't hear about that either? My my. (Or, if they have...) Sold out for a library card? Really?

 

The Magic Phrase (gets them to go away every time): "I'm sorry, you can't talk to me, I've been Disfellowshipped."

Disfellowshipping is what they call the total social death of anyone officially excommunicated from the Jehovah's Witnesses. It's even stronger than that. It means that all Jehovah's Witnesses, even your own family is barred from even talking to you. Honestly, that kind of social shunning is a really cruel practice, and if you don't want to use it like that, you can bring that up. They probably know someone who has been...

[midniterider]

I think my home owner's association must shoot them on sight because I rarely get anyone selling anything in our neighborhood.

 

Reward their persistance with anger. Ask them in an angry way why they can't get it through their head that you don't want their religion? Keep asking them angry questions and don't really let them talk. This could be fun. Just keep badgering the fuck out of them with questions but dont let them get a word in edgewise. Go on a tirade. This will make it unpleasant for them.

 

Or see if you can engage them in loud angry debate. If so, the cops will probably arrive soon and the JWs will be asked to leave to keep the peace. Do this every time they come until the dumbass cop that you talked to the first time gets sick of dealing with it.

 

When you answer the door start taking pictures of them with your phone or camera. Tell them you will be casting a curse on them and the demons will need to know what you look like for the working to be successful. Or tell them you ARE a demon. Memorize some latinish sounding mantra you can hit them with. People get upset when you take their picture. Record the whole thing on video if you like and post it on youtube.

 

Stand there like a zombie completely unengaged in what they have to say. Alternate between knowing they are there and not being sure anyone is there. 

 

If a female is there, stare at her intently and lustfully. Do not even look at the male(s).

 

If kids are not present tell them you will subscribe to their religion but first they must have a threesome with you. :-) Be adamant. Threesome equals new convert. Start rubbing your crotch area while you solicit them.

 

Tell them to wait right there a second while you go get a vibrator and turn it on in front of them and then say, "Ok, you were saying..."

 

Make a sign and tape it to your door. "Jehovah's Witnesses not welcome here." Or "Satan worshipped here."

 

Crank up your stereo to about 1000 decibals and say, "What?"

 

Fake a seizure. If they try to help you, stop and say "Ok, I think I'm better...." Then have another one. :-)

 

After they visit your home call the police and say, "There's this guy that keeps hitting this woman...they are walking down the street...etc etc"

 

After they visit your home call the police and say "There's these people going door to door selling magazines with no permit..."

 

Call the cops and say that these people are walking around trying the door handles on parked cars. Or peeking in fences or whatever other suspicious activity sounds fun to pin on them.

 

If the cops get pissed at you always act like you are stupid or have a menal illness. "Gosh, I thought they was selling magazine officer. It was called Watchtower...."

[QualifiedCommenter]

Honestly, I feel the best thing to do is to buy an audiobook from Hitchens, Dawkins, Sam Harris, or some other famous atheistic author and leave it playing on your radio, stereo system, computer speakers or whatever you use to listen to music aloud. I would imagine they wouldn't like that very much, especially if they bring their kids. That way, you wouldn't really need to do anything at all - just let Dawkins do all the work for you.

[older]

I agree with Rank. I'm not so sure that the cop is right. He could be a Christian himself.... Religious activities do have limits.

I would take Burnedout's advice and write a letter. I would make it clear that you have asked repeatedly and they ignore your requests. I would close by saying that if their visits continue, you will seek legal remedies including, but not limited to, a civil suit for harassment.

[Fweethawt]

Cops don't know shit about the law beyond speeding tickets and domestic abuse. Outside of that, if they're honest, they'll tell you that they don't know and they'll point you in the right direction.

 

But, since most of them are useless assholes, they just make shit up cuz it makes them feel good.

 

You do well to check the local courthouse for help on this one. I think the cop blew smoke up your ass.

[Guest]

Cops don't know shit about the law beyond speeding tickets and domestic abuse. Outside of that, if they're honest, they'll tell you that they don't know and they'll point you in the right direction.

 

But, since most of them are useless assholes, they just make shit up cuz it makes them feel good.

 

You do well to check the local courthouse for help on this one. I think the cop blew smoke up your ass.

I'm following up on this today.  In another thread I started over my still lingering anger over this someone mentioned how the law protecting and abetting my "abusers" my be contributing to my anger, and it has inspired me to not take the first answer Im given.  I found it hard to believe when the cop told me in the first place, and I still find it hard to believe now.  Perhaps they do have the right to come around generally, but there has to be some sort of harassment recourse if they continually come to a single residence like mine.  

 

I will google and call the appropriate numbers today and report back when I have more information.

[Guest]

I think my home owner's association must shoot them on sight because I rarely get anyone selling anything in our neighborhood.

 

Reward their persistance with anger. Ask them in an angry way why they can't get it through their head that you don't want their religion? Keep asking them angry questions and don't really let them talk. This could be fun. Just keep badgering the fuck out of them with questions but dont let them get a word in edgewise. Go on a tirade. This will make it unpleasant for them.

 

Or see if you can engage them in loud angry debate. If so, the cops will probably arrive soon and the JWs will be asked to leave to keep the peace. Do this every time they come until the dumbass cop that you talked to the first time gets sick of dealing with it.

 

This is pretty much exactly what I did, and I severely regret it.  All I did was reinforce the "angry atheist" who is pitiful and unhappy without god in their life.  Children witness it.  I would not let either woman get a word in edgewise.  I yelled they have no right to even speak to me because as women they have no authority to teach me and must lean in submissiveness.  I stressed the word submissiveness a second time to hit it home.  The I went on a repeat loop of "Get the fuck out of my sight" until she actually did turn around and leave.  Im sure I had demonic eyes.  I am a Taurus, when I charge, I charge!

 

I am ashamed at how I behaved, but I couldn't control it this time.  I have had enough of them disrespecting my requests.  

 

**I just want to stress for people who may have missed it, this is not about jehova witness per se, I know how to have fun with them.  This is about a specific church targeting me and my apartment out of my entire complex and harassing me by continually coming back every month after I have told them I am not interested for 2 full years.  This is harassment, not evangelizing.**

[Guest]

*UPDATE*

 

I called the city and spoke to several people in zoning and code compliance and the cops word was confirmed through them.  Religious groups are exempt from any and all soliciting laws and/or rules that may be applied to an apartment complex.  A gated community is different, but since my complex is "open to the public" they can enter and knock on my door.  They all admitted that my charge of harassment makes things a different matter, and although they all seemed sympathetic to my charge of being a specific target for harassment, I was referred back to the police as a civil matter.

 

So what I am going to do is simply write a letter and send it to this church, and give a copy to my apartment complex as well, telling them to leave me alone and never return to my specific apartment or I WILL start to research this as a civil matter and harassment.  Its all I can do, but I want this harassment on record somehow.

[Guest]

Here's a question:

 

How should I word this letter?  Obviously I need to put my address to make clear where they are not to go, but should I  or do I even have to give them my name?  Of course they can easily find this out themselves, but I'm wondering just how much info I should hand over to them freely.  If they really are targeting me and not just forgetful, they may use my information against me in other ways...

 

This is what I drafted quickly:

 

 

 

This is to certify in writing that Kingdom Hall Jehova’s Witnesses of Jupiter, located at 17680 Yancy Ave, Jupiter Florida, is requested to CEASE AND DESIST any and all communication consisting of personal visits, phone calls, mailings, emails, and/or delivery of any literature or any media OF ANY KIND to the address of 6*******************8.  If any further attempt at contact or relaying of any message by Kingdom Hall Jehova’s Witnesses of Jupiter to the resident of ******************8 is made, this will be considered  personal harassment and said resident will bring this to the proper civil authorities.

 

This has been said in person to numerous individuals who have evangelized over a 2 year period and it has been continually ignored.  It is now in writing and a matter of public record that no further contact of any kind is desired by the resident.

[midniterider]

 

Here's a question:

 

How should I word this letter? Obviously I need to put my address to make clear where they are not to go, but should I or do I even have to give them my name? Of course they can easily find this out themselves, but I'm wondering just how much info I should hand over to them freely. If they really are targeting me and not just forgetful, they may use my information against me in other ways...

 

This is what I drafted quickly:

 

 

 

This is to certify in writing that Kingdom Hall Jehova’s Witnesses of Jupiter, located at 17680 Yancy Ave, Jupiter Florida, is requested to CEASE AND DESIST any and all communication consisting of personal visits, phone calls, mailings, emails, and/or delivery of any literature or any media OF ANY KIND to the address of 6*******************8. If any further attempt at contact or relaying of any message by Kingdom Hall Jehova’s Witnesses of Jupiter to the resident of ******************8 is made, this will be considered personal harassment and said resident will bring this to the proper civil authorities.

 

This has been said in person to numerous individuals who have evangelized over a 2 year period and it has been continually ignored. It is now in writing and a matter of public record that no further contact of any kind is desired by the resident.

That would be good too....just remember to send the letter certified.

 

 

Maybe ask a lawyer if you could use his letterhead paper and maybe write the letter for you. Tape a copy on your front door on the weekends. I'd definitely look into the legalities a little more. Dont just take that one cop's opinion on it.

 

A cop I know used to say, "Ignorance of the law is no excuse, but it makes the job easier." Whatever they can do to keep the peace, avoid paperwork and get to lunch on time they will do. 

 

I bet the apartment building owner could call the cops and have the JWs  86'd off his property and/or arrested for trespassing if they come back.