My "dear Mike" Site - Written To The Friend Who Won Me To Kryasst

[Brother Jeff]

I have written a site dedicated to my friend Mike, the man who won me to Kryasst back in 1985. I had not had contact with him in many years, but recently we connected briefly on Facebook. He was very disappointed to find out that I no longer believe in God, so I decided to write a site explaining why I am no longer a Christian. I would greatly appreciate any and all feedback on it.

 

http://dearmike.religionisbullshit.me/

 

I plan on sharing the site with Mike very soon.

 

Glory!

[◊ crazyguy123 ◊]

I like the site! I don't know for sure how Mike will react to it, but it is quite likely that his reaction will be negative.

[ExXex]

Very thoughtfully put and respectfully (if a bit sarcastic at times haha) done! I hope Mike appreciates it

[BendyLine]

Hey, I know Lack Jackson! I lived in West Columbia for most of my teenage career. 

[Brother Jeff]

I like the site! I don't know for sure how Mike will react to it, but it is quite likely that his reaction will be negative.

 

Yeah, I know! I can hope for a positive response though, and at least I tried to communicate with him.

[Brother Jeff]

Very thoughtfully put and respectfully (if a bit sarcastic at times haha) done! I hope Mike appreciates it

 

I hope he does too!

[Brother Jeff]

Hey, I know Lack Jackson! I lived in West Columbia for most of my teenage career. 

 

Wow, small world! I live in Anchorage, AK now but I was born and raised and lived most of my life in Texas.

[Brother Jeff]

Well, this was Mike's response:

 

I will say this, if your viewpoint is that RELIGION is a bunch of BS, then let me start by saying AMEN!!!! I have served as an ordained minister, been to Bible School, etc. and I can tell you from first hand experience that RELIGION is a waste of time. Period. However, Jesus Christ is NOT a religion. He is a person and I have a personal relationship with him. I have known Jesus Christ since 1984, brother and I can honestly say that it gets sweeter and sweeter knowing Him. Jeff, you know who I am and you know what type of relationship I have with the Lord. Did you see religion and hypocrisy in me? It's OK , you can be honest. We had some good times of fellowship in the Lord together. I could go to your website, if that would make you happy, but it honestly would be a waste of time. You can't convince me that a being who I speak to (and who speaks back to me) and know on a personal level does not exist, because I have more than a head knowledge of Him. I know Him, walk with Him, talk with Him and Love Him :-) 

 

I respect your right to choose for yourself, but all I can say to you is... your missin' out BROTHER :-)

 

 

So... I guess he won't be learning why I no longer believe. Oh well...

[ExXex]

Oh dear oh dear. It sounds like he thinks you want to deconvert him rather than simply explain yerself.

I never managed to have a personal relationship with Jesus as a Christian, it was a bit like reading someone's diary and then talking at them for a few hours while they didn't respond in any way, how do people manage it D:

[Eugene39]

 

I can tell you from first hand experience that RELIGION is a waste of time. Period. However, Jesus Christ is NOT a religion. He is a person and I have a personal relationship with him. 

 

That argument is SO old and tired - drives me crazy.  

[ContraBardus]

 

 

I can tell you from first hand experience that RELIGION is a waste of time. Period. However, Jesus Christ is NOT a religion. He is a person and I have a personal relationship with him. 

 

That argument is SO old and tired - drives me crazy.  

 

 

My favorite response to that is to say "You mean Joshua."

 

It usually leads to a long frustrating [to them] back and fourth where I argue that the guy's name was Joshua and pretend to get confused about the term 'Jesus'. I never explain why his name is Joshua either, I just insist that it is [and I'm right about it too.] I refuse to accept any other reference to Joshua as anything but Joshua no matter what. Sometimes they'll even go for backup and get other Christians to say it's 'Jesus' which has the added bonus of me irritating more than one Christian at once. They'll start brandishing crusifixes at me like vampires and ranting about how it's 'Jesus' and I'll just continue to call him Joshua. It's fun to watch them point their little necklaces at each other and go 'Who is this' 'Jesus' 'See? His name is...' "Joshua."

 

Eventually they think I'm just being intentionally irritating [which I am] and not being serious [sort of true, but I'm still right about it] and give up.

 

It's the conversation equivalent of this:

 

[RipVanWinkle]

If Xtians really believe they have a "personal relationship" with Jesus, aren't they delusional  by definition? When i was a Xtian, I tried to talk to him all the time, but he refused to talk to me. But I finally found out he is not real. Do these Xtians really think he responds to them?   bill

[centauri]

Pretty well laid out format and content Brother Jeff.

[ExXex]

 

My favorite response to that is to say "You mean Joshua."

 

It usually leads to a long frustrating [to them] back and fourth where I argue that the guy's name was Joshua and pretend to get confused about the term 'Jesus'. I never explain why his name is Joshua either, I just insist that it is [and I'm right about it too.] I refuse to accept any other reference to Joshua as anything but Joshua no matter what. Sometimes they'll even go for backup and get other Christians to say it's 'Jesus' which has the added bonus of me irritating more than one Christian at once. They'll start brandishing crusifixes at me like vampires and ranting about how it's 'Jesus' and I'll just continue to call him Joshua. It's fun to watch them point their little necklaces at each other and go 'Who is this' 'Jesus' 'See? His name is...' "Joshua."

 

Eventually they think I'm just being intentionally irritating [which I am] and not being serious [sort of true, but I'm still right about it] and give up.

 

So tempted to ask why its Joshua, but know I shouldn't, halp me Jesus/Joshua D:

[ContraBardus]

 

 

My favorite response to that is to say "You mean Joshua."

 

It usually leads to a long frustrating [to them] back and fourth where I argue that the guy's name was Joshua and pretend to get confused about the term 'Jesus'. I never explain why his name is Joshua either, I just insist that it is [and I'm right about it too.] I refuse to accept any other reference to Joshua as anything but Joshua no matter what. Sometimes they'll even go for backup and get other Christians to say it's 'Jesus' which has the added bonus of me irritating more than one Christian at once. They'll start brandishing crusifixes at me like vampires and ranting about how it's 'Jesus' and I'll just continue to call him Joshua. It's fun to watch them point their little necklaces at each other and go 'Who is this' 'Jesus' 'See? His name is...' "Joshua."

 

Eventually they think I'm just being intentionally irritating [which I am] and not being serious [sort of true, but I'm still right about it] and give up.

 

So tempted to ask why its Joshua, but know I shouldn't, halp me Jesus/Joshua D:

 

 

His name is Yeshua, which actually translates to Joshua, not Jesus.

 

Here this will help:

 

\

 

Jesus is just badly translated Greek. The Greek and Hebrew are actually pronounced pretty close to the same way, but it was translated by how it looked and not by how it sounded when it was put into English, and thus the shitty translation 'Jesus'.

 

Jesus is a huge prick, Joshua wasn't a bad guy given the standards of his day. Not someone I'd hang around in modern times, but for a Middle Eastern Barbarian he was pretty cool.

[ContraBardus]

Double posted, so have an amusing and sacreligeous image:

 

[Deva]

I never understood the whole "relationship with Christ" thing even though when I was a Christian I subscribed to most of the doctrines. It is just like I could never accept "creation science".

 

Prayer was also always difficult for me, because it always just seemed like I was pretending to talk to someone but it was all really just in my head.  As an introvert, I am always having conversations in my head with myself and I can't see prayer as anything different except will added wishful thinking. I mean to hear Jesus speak - is it audible?

 

All Christians say the same thing- that religion is separate from Jesus. I have heard it all my life, but without the structure of an organized church and religion to preserve the stories, no one would have any idea who Jesus was today.

 

Jeff, its sad to hear an adult person like your friend Mike just parrot what others have told him.  That is what immersion in any religion will do to a person.

[RipVanWinkle]

" It's not a religion; it's a relationship."  I think this saying was thought up as a clever way to get people who are fed up with religion to listen anyway. It's a rather clever sales technique, but it's long since worn out its welcome.  Of course, it never was anything but a gimmick.   bill

[Brother Jeff]

My latest response:

 

Yes, it would make me happy if you read my site because I wrote it with you in mind. I don't consider learning or considering other viewpoints ever to be a waste of time. You can read my site and still disagree with me, and I would be fine with that. At least then you would have some understanding of my religious journey and why it is that I no longer believe.

I understand that your subjective religious experience has great meaning to you. But to me, it doesn't prove anything. Never say never. I used to be just as devout a believer as you are now, yet new information changed my mind permanently. And I am okay with that. I would rather comprehend the universe and life as it actually is than hide from it in a religious fantasy world. I know of thousands of people just like me who used to be devout Christian believers who are now atheists. If that journey can happen to me and many other former Christians, then the possibility exists that it could happen to you too at some point in time, as unimaginable as that may seem to you.

We have been out of contact for a long time, Mike, and in that time a lot has happened to me. I have been diagnosed with bipolar disorder (in 1998), and that actually explains very well the "on again, off again" nature of my religious experience over the years. I have even written a book on the subject, which you are welcome to check out.

I have spent the last thirteen years examining the Bible and the Christian religion from the skeptical side of the fence, and while there is still a lot that I don't know, I am far more familiar with the Bible and the origins and history of the Christian religion than I was as a believer. I have, at times, been an outspoken atheist. I ran a very popular atheistic website for a few years, until I decided to shut it down in 2004 because I had grown tired of doing it and was out of fresh ideas. These days I don't speak out as publicly about my views, but I am still a convinced atheist. I know too much about the Bible and its origins to regard it as anything other than what it actually is -- a collection of ancient religious mythology that clearly reflects the time in which it was written. It has far too many serious flaws for me to regard it as the "word" of a god.

I understand the emotional appeal of religious belief very well, but I don't think I am "missing out" on anything other than some religious highs. I had enough of those over the years for a lifetime. And given the fact that God never says, thinks, or does anything at all except in the minds of believers is a huge clue to me to his nonexistence.
 

I also think it very likely that Jesus is a myth. That's not a conclusion that I came to overnight, but the research I have done over the years has led me there. Outside of the Bible, there are few references to Jesus, and those that do exist can be dismissed for various reasons. Then there is the fact that the Gospels were written as myth and not history, and they were not written until decades after the events they purport to relate. And they were all written anonymously, not by Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John. I go where the available facts and evidence take me. And so far that has been to the "mythicist" position.

 

We did indeed have some good times back in those days! I have many great memories from those times with you.

For the record, no I never noticed any hypocrisy on your part, but that doesn't prove Christianity true. I have always known you to be a very good and honest person who has the best interests of others at heart.

This is all probably a lot for you to digest all at once, and I understand that. But I am where I am at in terms of what I think about religion and religious belief. I understand why you believe. I hope you can understand why I no longer do.

[kolaida]

 

Hey, I know Lack Jackson! I lived in West Columbia for most of my teenage career. 

 

Wow, small world! I live in Anchorage, AK now but I was born and raised and lived most of my life in Texas.

 

 

Know this is a bit off topic, but gotta say I went to Bartlett High School in Anchorage; Dad was stationed at Elemendorf. My family now resides in Fairbanks (except me, LOL). 

[ContraBardus]

 

 

Hey, I know Lack Jackson! I lived in West Columbia for most of my teenage career. 

 

Wow, small world! I live in Anchorage, AK now but I was born and raised and lived most of my life in Texas.

 

 

Know this is a bit off topic, but gotta say I went to Bartlett High School in Anchorage; Dad was stationed at Elemendorf. My family now resides in Fairbanks (except me, LOL). 

 

 

OH NO! WHAT HAVE YOU DONE??? THE HORROR! THE HORROR!

 

[Tzarza]

I really like the website! I also think it was very thoughtfully written. I will keep it in mind if I ever have a chat with a Christian friend about "stuff" lol!-- (but I mostly dread that).

I hope Mike reacts kindly to your second note, I could definitely read that you care about him in your tone. I wouldn't be surprised if he got defensive, but you've been quite open and polite. 

[deconverted]

Brother Jeff,

 

I too have a good friend that I've tried to dialogue with, not to deconvert him, but to help him try and understand why I left and what I think now.  He refuses to consider any book, or argument, and is not even interested in hearing why.  It makes no difference too him.  They view it as a waste of time.  I can't imagine doing that...even when I was a Christian.  Back then, I was in the mind frame of "Christianity is truth, so there is no harm in hearing other viewpoints, as truth can withstand all assults".  I was eager to learn why people didn't believe in what was obvious (at the time) to me (which was faith in the Bible and Jesus).  I never shy'ed away from listenting to reason why someone didn't believe in God/Jesus/Bible.  Yet now, I can't even get my own wife to hear me out in trying to get her to understand me.  I find the most frustrating thing about Christians is not their faith or their weak arguments, but simply the fact that they are so closed off.  I have almost zero tolerance for people who aren't interested in having a real give and take discussion and who aren't really able to truly consider other points of view.  I don't expect to change anyone with my arguments but the fact that they won't even be heard to try and bridge the huge gap of misunderstanding is so unbelievably frustrating.  I give my Christian friends the courtesy of listening to them and considering what they have to say.  All we are asking for is the same courtesy.

[Lerk]

Religious: Relating to or manifesting faithful devotion to an acknowledged ultimate reality or deity.

 

If a person claims to have a relationship with Jesus, a "god", then they're claiming to be religious, because that supposed relationship implies devotion.

 

Yes, I know that they're implying that it's something more than just showing up at the church building and being judgmental, but those things are not the definition of "religious".

[traveller2]

to the OP,did you share your site with him for yourself or did you do it for the lord? pmsl ...sorry.