raoul Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 My love letter to Duderonomy and the rest of the agnostic ilk who just wanna play with the big boys and gals engaged in the REAL theological wars going on. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeFZhjYtFu0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesG Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 I think I can agree to a certain extent but we have to cut them a little slack. Religion is a hard thing to deprogram its one thing to say you don't believe in Xtianity its another thing entirely to say you don't believe in any gods. Some of them still are deconverting in a long process. for me I call this phase denial for some its a few years for others its their lives. I reckon there is a biological component to a belief in gods as well. After all we did create them. Disregarding this biological component is probably similar to a highly addictive drug. Some can move on but others will always have that itch. any ways that's just my two cents. Its only a matter of time before the tables tip in our favor after all we are winning the younger generations. Religion will become obsolete in a modern world and those cowardly agnostics will be more comfortable accepting atheism after all they are 90% there 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 My love letter to Duderonomy and the rest of the agnostic ilk who just wanna play with the big boys and gals engaged in the REAL theological wars going on. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeFZhjYtFu0 Engaging in real theological wars. It's what retired people on the internet do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator TrueFreedom Posted July 5, 2013 Moderator Share Posted July 5, 2013 raoul, I don't intend to pick a fight with you, but I don't think that you understand agnosticism. In attacking agnosticism, do you realize that you are siding against Bart Ehrman, Albert Camus, H. L. Mencken, and Robert fucking Ingersoll? If you don't know that there is no God, then you are an agnostic as well.I also wonder why what one or two members post has to do with whether or not you would want to support this site. What do you expect the mods to do, ban anyone who disagrees with you? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
◊ crazyguy123 ◊ Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 raoul, I don't intend to pick a fight with you, but I don't think that you understand agnosticism. In attacking agnosticism, do you realize that you are siding against Bart Ehrman, Albert Camus, H. L. Mencken, and Robert fucking Ingersoll? If you don't know that there is no God, then you are an agnostic as well. I also wonder why what one or two members post has to do with whether or not you would want to support this site. What do you expect the mods to do, ban anyone who disagrees with you? It looked to me like he was only attacking the dishonest Agnostics who attempted to define atheism so that becomes a belief that requires faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator TrueFreedom Posted July 5, 2013 Moderator Share Posted July 5, 2013 raoul, I don't intend to pick a fight with you, but I don't think that you understand agnosticism. In attacking agnosticism, do you realize that you are siding against Bart Ehrman, Albert Camus, H. L. Mencken, and Robert fucking Ingersoll? If you don't know that there is no God, then you are an agnostic as well. I also wonder why what one or two members post has to do with whether or not you would want to support this site. What do you expect the mods to do, ban anyone who disagrees with you? It looked to me like he was only attacking the dishonest Agnostics who attempted to define atheism so that becomes a belief that requires faith. It seems to me that both duderonomy and raoul are reading too much into the terms, but raoul is showing the least charity in the matter. Most agnostics are atheists and vice versa. Some would rather not identify with the atheist label, since it's so loaded for so many, but they tend to think of themselves that way. I apologize if this sounds corny, but why can we not appreciate the roles that different people play in the fight for truth and justice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galien Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Because the most popular human religion is being right. The more things change, the more they stay the same. Ego fucks us every time. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesG Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Because the most popular human religion is being right. The more things change, the more they stay the same. Ego fucks us every time. I agree sometimes I reaaaally have to check myself because I can be so hard headed. My ego has its fist so far up my ass I feel like its working me like a sock puppet 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipVanWinkle Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 In his own mind he has made partners into enemies. Why would an atheist be mad at agnostics who says "you're probably right but I know with absolute certainty" ? Ego? It's possible, but I'm agnostic about it 'cause I'm a coward, I guess bill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galien Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 In his own mind he has made partners into and enemies. Why would an atheist be mad at agnostics who says "you're probably right but I know with absolute certainty" ? Ego? It's possible, but I'm agnostic about it 'cause I'm a coward, I guess bill Im agnostic because I don't know, and I can't know and I'm okay with that. I cannot prove there is no god anymore than I can prove there is one. I have no trouble dealing with saying I don't know. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Because the most popular human religion is being right. The more things change, the more they stay the same. Ego fucks us every time. I agree sometimes I reaaaally have to check myself because I can be so hard headed. My ego has its fist so far up my ass I feel like its working me like a sock puppet I never got that impression from you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 If you don't know that there is no God, then you are an agnostic as well. I'm not siding with anyone here. I just want to point out that this statement isn't correct. I'm an atheist and I don't "know" there is no god. I just don't happen to believe there is given I have no valid reason to. As for theological wars, I always thought the Go, God, Go episode of South Park was kind stupid, but it appears to be spot on for a few atheists who haven't learned to let go of the us vs. them mentality that religion and politics tend to foist on people. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_God_Go_XII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Because the most popular human religion is being right. The more things change, the more they stay the same. Ego fucks us every time. I'm better than you because I'm a ___________ [ fill in the blank with your current philosophy ]. :-) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeker001 Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 I watched your video. Personally, I consider myself agnostic because I don't know. Maybe I am playing it safe as you put it, but I don't pretend to have the answer. I only have my own observations and interpretations Although, I am starting to lean a little more towards atheism. I may chirp in but I am only giving my opinion. To agree or not it is up to the reader, and I have no interest in converting anyone to my way of thinking. I also have no interest in participating in any "theological wars," but I do have an interest in debating now and then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator TrueFreedom Posted July 5, 2013 Moderator Share Posted July 5, 2013 If you don't know that there is no God, then you are an agnostic as well. I'm not siding with anyone here. I just want to point out that this statement isn't correct. I'm an atheist and I don't "know" there is no god. I just don't happen to believe there is given I have no valid reason to. As for theological wars, I always thought the Go, God, Go episode of South Park was kind stupid, but it appears to be spot on for a few atheists who haven't learned to let go of the us vs. them mentality that religion and politics tend to foist on people. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_God_Go_XII Agnostic: "A person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God or of anything beyond material phenomena" - Dictionary.com I would consider you an agnostic atheist, just as I consider Richard Dawkins, not that such labels are important to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 I watched your video. Personally, I consider myself agnostic because I don't know. Maybe I am playing it safe as you put it, but I don't pretend to have the answer. I only have my own observations and interpretations Although, I am starting to lean a little more towards atheism. I may chirp in but I am only giving my opinion. To agree or not it is up to the reader, and I have no interest in converting anyone to my way of thinking. I also have no interest in participating in any "theological wars," but I do have an interest in debating now and then. There's nothing wrong in playing it safe. I guess if "agnostic=safe" then "atheist=unsafe or risky". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 If you don't know that there is no God, then you are an agnostic as well. I'm not siding with anyone here. I just want to point out that this statement isn't correct. I'm an atheist and I don't "know" there is no god. I just don't happen to believe there is given I have no valid reason to. As for theological wars, I always thought the Go, God, Go episode of South Park was kind stupid, but it appears to be spot on for a few atheists who haven't learned to let go of the us vs. them mentality that religion and politics tend to foist on people. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_God_Go_XII Agnostic: "A person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God or of anything beyond material phenomena" - Dictionary.com I would consider you an agnostic atheist, just as I consider Richard Dawkins, not that such labels are important to me.[/size] a-theist = without god, or doesn't believe in god. I don't take the position that 'I just don't know'. I take the position that I have no valid reason to believe in the critter. I'm equally not agnostic about Santa and any other realm of mythical creatures. It seems silly to me to say 'I don't know if Santa exists' or that 'the existence of Santa is unknowable.' It seems more likely that those who believe in Santa are young children or deluded adults. Agnosticism doesn't seem like a very useful term to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted July 5, 2013 Super Moderator Share Posted July 5, 2013 Could we perhaps agree that while technically anything is possible, we need only concern ourselves with that which is at least somewhat probable? Just because I can't prove there is no God, Santa, or Xenu doesn't mean I have to entertain the notions seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator TrueFreedom Posted July 5, 2013 Moderator Share Posted July 5, 2013 Could we perhaps agree that while technically anything is possible, we need only concern ourselves with that which is at least somewhat probable? Just because I can't prove there is no God, Santa, or Xenu doesn't mean I have to entertain the notions seriously. That's the point of agnosticism. The notion is not useful and not entertained. Not everyone wants to be defined by something that they are not. Since not believing in God does not define me I don't care for the atheist label. Does that make me an atheist's enemy? If so, it's on you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Ha ha. Yeah, you're my enemy TF. You're not marching lock boot with me. Seriously, I could give a shit what label you choose for yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesG Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 Because the most popular human religion is being right. The more things change, the more they stay the same. Ego fucks us every time. I agree sometimes I reaaaally have to check myself because I can be so hard headed. My ego has its fist so far up my ass I feel like its working me like a sock puppet I never got that impression from you. thanks I just have a fear of narcissism I guess, I can see it creep out sometimes and I dislike that aspect of myself. There just happens to be a bunch of extreme narcissists in my immediate family and frankly it just repulses me. The fear is related to that probably /shrugs. I had to learn how to take praise or a compliment it was and is awkward for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeker001 Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 I got a pm from Raul apologizing, his aim was only at the specific users he mentioned on that video. He did not intend to go after all agnostics, but he is apparently tired of people not listening and playing it overly safe. Listen to the video if you want the full rant of what ticked him off. But he didn't mean any harm with what he said. He says he is no longer going to be posting on the public forums, but he can be found on his youtube channel http://www.youtube.com/user/raoul116 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosiahTheAxeman Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 I consider myself atheist for the reasons previously mentioned above me. I find the existence of the Christian god EXTREMELY unlikely (that fucker is seriously demented) and the existence of gods in general also unlikely. Just because I can't prove a god does or doesn't exist does NOT mean it's an equal 50-50 chance for either option. You gotta examine and weigh the evidence, and I find the evidence leans far more towards a verdict of God not existing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesG Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 Yeah seeker I didn't get the feeling he was targeting all agnostics but agnostic behavior that was trying to distance itself from atheism in a condescending manner and try and side with the Christians so to speak. there might have been some conclusion jumping here. The words cowardly agnostics was a poor choice because while it describes what was bothering him can appear to be a blanket statement which upon further elaboration in his rant was not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
◊ crazyguy123 ◊ Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 I got a pm from Raul apologizing, his aim was only at the specific users he mentioned on that video. He did not intend to go after all agnostics, but he is apparently tired of people not listening and playing it overly safe. Listen to the video if you want the full rant of what ticked him off. But he didn't mean any harm with what he said. He says he is no longer going to be posting on the public forums, but he can be found on his youtube channel http://www.youtube.com/user/raoul116 I got a pm too, about how he won't be posting on the public forums anymore. That is unfortunate that he won't be posting here since a lot of the things he posted helped me quite a bit when I was in the process of deprogramming still. I consider myself atheist for the reasons previously mentioned above me. I find the existence of the Christian god EXTREMELY unlikely (that fucker is seriously demented) and the existence of gods in general also unlikely. Just because I can't prove a god does or doesn't exist does NOT mean it's an equal 50-50 chance for either option. You gotta examine and weigh the evidence, and I find the evidence leans far more towards a verdict of God not existing. It's like I have said before to many different people when speaking about the Christian god. He is so sick he is more likely to be a demon than a god and I don't see any reason as of yet to believe in either gods or demons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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