Jump to content

Snakes/ Serpents Having Legs In The Bible


Recommended Posts

Question.

 

How did the bible know snakes had legs when they lost their legs millions of years ago? Could it be that the earth really is only 6000 years old? Or could it be that god is real?

 

A friend pointed this out to me today, I have no answer, from my brief research it appears snakes are a scientific enigma that evolved on land. So I thought I'd come here.

 

(I assume I've put this post in the right place, but feel free to move if that's not the case).

 

Thanks guys!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Question.

How did the bible know snakes had legs when they lost their legs millions of years ago? Could it be that the earth really is only 6000 years old? Or could it be that god is real?

A friend pointed this out to me today, I have no answer, from my brief research it appears snakes are a scientific enigma that evolved on land. So I thought I'd come here.

(I assume I've put this post in the right place, but feel free to move if that's not the case).

Thanks guys!

verse(s)?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Then the Lord God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this, you are cursed more than all animals, domestic and wild. You will crawl on your belly, groveling in the dust as long as you live. (Genesis 3:14 NLT)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Or it could be that a snake looks like a lizard without legs, and it was a lucky guess? Apparently, God also took away their ability to speak and to fool unsuspecting people into doing bad things.

 

EDIT: Also, how many land animals are there that don't have legs? Not many. How many of those are found in the Middle East? Fewer than that. It would be pretty understandable for ancient people to look at snakes and wonder, "Pretty much all of the other animals have legs, but snakes don't. I wonder why." Genesis gets written, and BOOM! we have an explanation for a woman's pain during childbirth and why snakes have no legs. It's all pretty standard fare for creation myths to try to explain why things are the way they are today.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Then the Lord God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this, you are cursed more than all animals, domestic and wild. You will crawl on your belly, groveling in the dust as long as you live. (Genesis 3:14 NLT)

I think the verse is directed at Satan who took the form of a serpent, not the class of animals that already existed and shares the same name.  God is casting Lucifer from heaven for tempting Eve and trapping him in the form of a lowly animal that crawls on its belly and everyone reviles.  It could just as easily say "Your punishment is to be a spider."  Though the most likely explaination of why the story says serpent specifically is that, in prior religions of the region, snakes were considered deities.  The first step in surplanting a religion is to make the old god the new devil.  You get the bonus of all the back story and you get to claim, "He was tricking you the whole time!  Here's the real god." 

 

That's mythology.  It's made up backstory to things that already exist.  The reality is that snakes existed for millions of years before the first human.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Question.

 

How did the bible know snakes had legs when they lost their legs millions of years ago? Could it be that the earth really is only 6000 years old? Or could it be that god is real?

 

A friend pointed this out to me today, I have no answer, from my brief research it appears snakes are a scientific enigma that evolved on land. So I thought I'd come here.

 

(I assume I've put this post in the right place, but feel free to move if that's not the case).

 

Thanks guys!

 

 

The Bible doesn't know.  It's a coincidence.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Rev 20:22 "He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan...."

 

So... was the snake in the garden of eden really a dragon? I think I've heard fundies make that argument.

 

Also, wikipedia mentions that in the Epic of Gilgamesh, which predates the bible but is from the same area, Gilgamesh's immortality is stolen by a snake. It also seems that snakes were often a fertility symbol, associated with female goddesses (sounds weird to me, but the internet says that is related to how snakes shed their skin, which is a rebirth thing, so they have a lot to do with life and death and immortality).

 

The whole snake thing in mythology was nothing new to christianity. There's a surprising lot about snakes and mythology in Wikipedia, including this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snake_worship#Ancient_Near_East

 

Ok, this is pretty funny too: http://troygrisgonelle.wordpress.com/2007/02/27/misconception-3-the-serpent-in-the-garden-of-eden-was-a-snake-genesis-314-2/

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Babylonian Dream

Then the Lord God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this, you are cursed more than all animals, domestic and wild. You will crawl on your belly, groveling in the dust as long as you live. (Genesis 3:14 NLT)

I had a response, but....

 

Or it could be that a snake looks like a lizard without legs, and it was a lucky guess? Apparently, God also took away their ability to speak and to fool unsuspecting people into doing bad things.

 

EDIT: Also, how many land animals are there that don't have legs? Not many. How many of those are found in the Middle East? Fewer than that. It would be pretty understandable for ancient people to look at snakes and wonder, "Pretty much all of the other animals have legs, but snakes don't. I wonder why." Genesis gets written, and BOOM! we have an explanation for a woman's pain during childbirth and why snakes have no legs. It's all pretty standard fare for creation myths to try to explain why things are the way they are today.

Thought2much took the words out of my mouth XD

 

Also, the Bible doesn't explicitly say that snakes had legs before. The serpent might have been in the tree, so maybe they believed it had 2 legs and 2 wings instead? Like dragons of a certain type.

 

Though, given that there is a precident acrossed the middle east at the time and before, especially in Sumer and Babylon for myths of dragons with tails, and bulls with wings, I'd say such concepts weren't far from the minds of the ancient hebrews. Divine revelation not necessary. There were even pictures drawn of wingless dragons that were serpents without wings:

http://www.dragonsinn.net/History/middle_east/goldmarduk2.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Some kind of cross between the snake/dragon translation gaffe mentioned above, and the just-so story reason why one type of scaly coldblooded thing doesn't have legs when all the others do. You could also ask your friend why Hindu mythology is a lot more accurate about the age of the universe and sounds like a general sketch of some bleeding-edge scientific cosmology theories (namely the cyclic model of cosmology). A lucky guess? Or is the universe really billions of years old??

Link to comment
Share on other sites

GettingDown, it seems weird for that person to be using snake evolution as evidence that the Earth is 6000 years old.  I can see how a Christian who believes Genesis is not literal could use snake evolution to claim divine inspiration, but it still is more likely that some storyteller used the missing snake legs as the basis for a good fable.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Then the Lord God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this, you are cursed more than all animals, domestic and wild. You will crawl on your belly, groveling in the dust as long as you live. (Genesis 3:14 NLT)

No mention of legs. Just crawling and groveling, a story invented to "explain" why snakes crawl by people who didn't know any better.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Question.

 

How did the bible know snakes had legs when they lost their legs millions of years ago? Could it be that the earth really is only 6000 years old? Or could it be that god is real?

 

A friend pointed this out to me today, I have no answer, from my brief research it appears snakes are a scientific enigma that evolved on land. So I thought I'd come here.

 

(I assume I've put this post in the right place, but feel free to move if that's not the case).

 

Thanks guys!

So let's look at this with a modicum of thought.

Where does your friend derive the knowledge that snakes ever had legs? One source is the bible and the other is scientific, fossil evidence.

What does your friend then try to do with these two disparate bits of information?

He tries to use the scientific information (fossil evidence) to prove the mythology (bible) in order to make you doubt all the other scientific evidence in existence that says the Earth is millions of years old and the bible is a myth. 

Does any of this make any sense at all????  If it does, you're suffering from residual fundamentalitis.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Question.

 

How did the bible know snakes had legs when they lost their legs millions of years ago? Could it be that the earth really is only 6000 years old? Or could it be that god is real?

 

A friend pointed this out to me today, I have no answer, from my brief research it appears snakes are a scientific enigma that evolved on land. So I thought I'd come here.

 

(I assume I've put this post in the right place, but feel free to move if that's not the case).

 

Thanks guys!

So let's look at this with a modicum of thought.

Where does your friend derive the knowledge that snakes ever had legs? One source is the bible and the other is scientific, fossil evidence.

What does your friend then try to do with these two disparate bits of information?

He tries to use the scientific information (fossil evidence) to prove the mythology (bible) in order to make you doubt all the other scientific evidence in existence that says the Earth is millions of years old and the bible is a myth. 

Does any of this make any sense at all????  If it does, you're suffering from residual fundamentalitis.

 

Hey guys I was just trying to piece things together. I'm researching my way out of the christian way. I have spent 7-8 years been indoctrinated, I'm trying to undo that, but little things like this bother me. My friend wasn't saying this as fact, he was just reading and posed a question to me(he's not religious, more than likely agnostic). I do believe I am suffering from "residual fundamentalitis". I admit it and I am trying to fix it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

Question.

 

How did the bible know snakes had legs when they lost their legs millions of years ago? Could it be that the earth really is only 6000 years old? Or could it be that god is real?

 

A friend pointed this out to me today, I have no answer, from my brief research it appears snakes are a scientific enigma that evolved on land. So I thought I'd come here.

 

(I assume I've put this post in the right place, but feel free to move if that's not the case).

 

Thanks guys!

So let's look at this with a modicum of thought.

Where does your friend derive the knowledge that snakes ever had legs? One source is the bible and the other is scientific, fossil evidence.

What does your friend then try to do with these two disparate bits of information?

He tries to use the scientific information (fossil evidence) to prove the mythology (bible) in order to make you doubt all the other scientific evidence in existence that says the Earth is millions of years old and the bible is a myth. 

Does any of this make any sense at all????  If it does, you're suffering from residual fundamentalitis.

 

Hey guys I was just trying to piece things together. I'm researching my way out of the christian way. I have spent 7-8 years been indoctrinated, I'm trying to undo that, but little things like this bother me. My friend wasn't saying this as fact, he was just reading and posed a question to me(he's not religious, more than likely agnostic). I do believe I am suffering from "residual fundamentalitis". I admit it and I am trying to fix it.

 

GettingDown, let me apologize on behalf of my peers if we come across as assholes.  Our community has been trolled many times by creationist pretending to be open minded in an attempt to 'herd the wayward flock'.  It has made many of us jaded to such inquiries.  Most of us mean well, dispite having been trolled by many under the guise of skeptism.  Please don't let it discourage you from further inqueries.  As a community, I think we sometimes forget that people do come here who are genuinely skeptical of religion and are looking for other answers.  As a community we should be more excepting of those people, if we want to grow our community.  If you are turned off by some of the community commentary, try IM'ing some of us that seem most supportive.  There are many of us who are truely passionate about speading knowledge and free-though to others.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

     Seems a pretty brutal sentence to be stripped of your arms/legs maybe even speech and forced to eat dirt forever.  Not only that but the same applies for all your "kind" as well?  Yikes.  I don't even think a modern villain like Hitler would get that.  A bullet to the head, a rope around the neck or life in prison are much more civilized.

 

          mwc

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Then the Lord God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this, you are cursed more than all animals, domestic and wild. You will crawl on your belly, groveling in the dust as long as you live. (Genesis 3:14 NLT)

that doesnt say it had legs...maybe it had wings.

 

Also correlation doesnt imply causations.If i guess the weather of the next month and get one day right, it doesnt mean that i know/control the weather. (actually i am the god of weather. you can worship me now.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

 

Question.

 

How did the bible know snakes had legs when they lost their legs millions of years ago? Could it be that the earth really is only 6000 years old? Or could it be that god is real?

 

A friend pointed this out to me today, I have no answer, from my brief research it appears snakes are a scientific enigma that evolved on land. So I thought I'd come here.

 

(I assume I've put this post in the right place, but feel free to move if that's not the case).

 

Thanks guys!

So let's look at this with a modicum of thought.

Where does your friend derive the knowledge that snakes ever had legs? One source is the bible and the other is scientific, fossil evidence.

What does your friend then try to do with these two disparate bits of information?

He tries to use the scientific information (fossil evidence) to prove the mythology (bible) in order to make you doubt all the other scientific evidence in existence that says the Earth is millions of years old and the bible is a myth. 

Does any of this make any sense at all????  If it does, you're suffering from residual fundamentalitis.

 

Hey guys I was just trying to piece things together. I'm researching my way out of the christian way. I have spent 7-8 years been indoctrinated, I'm trying to undo that, but little things like this bother me. My friend wasn't saying this as fact, he was just reading and posed a question to me(he's not religious, more than likely agnostic). I do believe I am suffering from "residual fundamentalitis". I admit it and I am trying to fix it.

 

GettingDown, let me apologize on behalf of my peers if we come across as assholes.  Our community has been trolled many times by creationist pretending to be open minded in an attempt to 'herd the wayward flock'.  It has made many of us jaded to such inquiries.  Most of us mean well, dispite having been trolled by many under the guise of skeptism.  Please don't let it discourage you from further inqueries.  As a community, I think we sometimes forget that people do come here who are genuinely skeptical of religion and are looking for other answers.  As a community we should be more excepting of those people, if we want to grow our community.  If you are turned off by some of the community commentary, try IM'ing some of us that seem most supportive.  There are many of us who are truely passionate about speading knowledge and free-though to others.

 

 

It's ok I wasn't taking it personal. As I really am looking for answers. These type of things make me wonder though.....

 

http://phys.org/news/2011-02-x-rays-reveal-hidden-leg-ancient.html

 

http://news.discovery.com/animals/zoo-animals/snakes-lost-legs-evolution-110207.htm

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The answer is simple-- evolution caused snakes to lose their legs-- not god. Sometimes the bible seems like it speaks truth because it addresses something that really did happen-/ snakes really did lose their legs.. But that doesn't mean god did it. More likely, people of that time compared snakes to other reptiles and wondered why they didn't have legs. There see probably legends and stories about snakes. But,based on the scripture sited on the post, I am not even seeing where the bible specifically states that snakes lost their legs. Weird argument!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Question.

 

How did the bible know snakes had legs when they lost their legs millions of years ago? Could it be that the earth really is only 6000 years old? Or could it be that god is real?

 

A friend pointed this out to me today, I have no answer, from my brief research it appears snakes are a scientific enigma that evolved on land. So I thought I'd come here.

 

(I assume I've put this post in the right place, but feel free to move if that's not the case).

 

Thanks guys!

 

There are countless mythology stories that have been fabricated by humans all around the world.  By sheer probability some of them are going to sound like genuine science.  An example in a completely different religion the story of Pele the Hawaiian goddess moving from island to island before finally settling on the big island.  That particular myth parallels the volcanic hot spot theory on how the islands formed.

 

For every myth that sort of seems like factual science there are about 1000 that are way off though.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Also, convergent evolution: snakes aren't the only reptiles to have lost legs - slowworms and glass lizards, for just two examples. It's ongoing, and an adaptation for burrowing. There's lots of models for intermediate species, too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

uhmm guys I think your  missing something here the god factor  duh. with him all naturally occurring processes are possible even if they were to happen regardless of his intervention.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Guidelines.