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So I Want To Make Some Changes


Darklady
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Heres the thing

 

its so frustrating, so damm wrong,  that women are still being abused, raped, murdered, maimed because they are women, because they want, demand and deserve freedom, because they should not be someones property,

 

that women leaders are mocked for their looks, for being 'tough' or 'emotional'  ( re Julia Gillard and Hillary Clinton),    

 

I want to take the world and frigging shake it until it understand that women are people to.....

 

so what more can we do,  what more can be done to  change the world, to educate people, to bring equal rights to all peoples...

 

I m so frigging frustrated by things...

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You and me both. Keep being angry. Write letters. Speak out. Question things. The best thing we can do is not sit back and take it.

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I get incredibly frustrated about it too, beyond having a uterus, what makes a female a female seems so undefined and changeable that it seems silly we so often don't get the chances men in a similar society/social standing to us get D: Angry females unite! yellow.gif

I just imagine going back in time and explaining to someone there how society has progressed, I wouldn't want to have to say 'er yes we're kinda less racist but there are still problems there, yup gay people's existence has been acknowledged but there have only just been movements to allow them to marry... there are a few women in positions of power but more often than not people want to talk about what they're wearing rather than what they're actually doing..'

It's shameful man.

Having said that, what makes me sad too is 'feminists' who don't encourage and support other women - only the ones who make the same lifestyle choices as them and get all bogged down in telling people to check their privilege or whatever. I think feminism could work much better as a constructive force rather than a destructive one! I think we miss out by not starting by encouraging our female friends to strive for greatness when it seems the world doesn't want them there.

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Problem is, the only way to really change things is to change people's thinking. If someone thinks that one gender is automatically inferior to the other one, all the laws and whatever else you can come up with in the world won't change that core belief. Sure the one with these beliefs may play along by the rules forced upon her but when she gets the chance, why would she stop going down the same old brainfucked road again?

 

In other words, the way to to is to educate people. Teach them as clearly as you can, from day one in school/kindergarten, that there are but few differences between the genders, and that these few only count in very specific situations (mostly referring to the basic biological/anatomical differences here, genitals and such). I went through such education and really I'm dazzled every time I see the conviction manifest itself that "women can't think rationally" or "men only want sex and nothing else and they have no emotions" or really anything else aiming that way. In other words, there's proof that it works.

 

But people want to pass on what they learned is (supposedly) true. Teaching a misogynist's or feminazi's kids that the genders are equal except for some very minor things isn't worth much when the kids then go home and mom or dad continue shoving the hate crap down their throats. And if you try to stop them they'll call it an attempt at brainwashing. From their personal (twisted) perspective they will even be right - after all, any kind of education is, in a way, brainwashing.

 

What's needed is the will, and the consent of enough of the population, to pull through such a massive reeducation thing. And if we finally do it some day in the future, we'll need to do it all the way, no exceptions spared. No "we're all equal" at school but still making the lil' boys play with cars and the girls play with dolls and such. If the old rotting role models need to go they really all need to go.

 

It will hurt because we'll all have to let go of many things, even some we don't normally consider too bad. :shrug:

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...I think feminism could work much better as a constructive force rather than a destructive one! ...

This. Exactly this.

 

There's morons on both sides. I take it that in places such as the States or Oz (or just parts of them? Dunno...) male chauvinism still dominates most of society; over here, at least regarding the media and the everyday political correctness, it's pretty much the other way round. Both sucks, both is a disgrace to all humanity, or at least should be.

 

Give me constructive feminism any time and I'll support it. I tolerate the lunatic fringe of feminism every bit as much as I do that of male chauvinism though, namely "not at all".

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Hear, hear! I hate lunatic fringes, too. It doesn't help that they're usually the loudest and most obnoxious, so they're the ones everybody thinks represents the whole argument. 49.gif

It's just absurd. I'm a feminist, and all I want is for everybody to be allowed to live up to their full potential, whoever they are. Is it really that hard to be decent to people?

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Unfortunately we will never see humanity embrace the idea of "equality" to live and pursue happiness and at least have equal opportunity in our lifetime. Having lived in Afghanistan, I can say certain areas of the world are much more progressive than others.

 

With that said, humanity has made leaps and bounds in the past century and this is encouraging. I can only hope the humans hundreds of years and thousands of years from now will look upon us as ignorant savages as we have looked at our predecessors in that way. I also hope they look upon our greatest ideas with respect and fondness as we do when considering some of the great philosophical work of our predecessors.

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I get incredibly frustrated about it too, beyond having a uterus, what makes a female a female seems so undefined and changeable that it seems silly we so often don't get the chances men in a similar society/social standing to us get D: Angry females unite! yellow.gif

I just imagine going back in time and explaining to someone there how society has progressed, I wouldn't want to have to say 'er yes we're kinda less racist but there are still problems there, yup gay people's existence has been acknowledged but there have only just been movements to allow them to marry... there are a few women in positions of power but more often than not people want to talk about what they're wearing rather than what they're actually doing..'

It's shameful man.

Having said that, what makes me sad too is 'feminists' who don't encourage and support other women - only the ones who make the same lifestyle choices as them and get all bogged down in telling people to check their privilege or whatever. I think feminism could work much better as a constructive force rather than a destructive one! I think we miss out by not starting by encouraging our female friends to strive for greatness when it seems the world doesn't want them there.

 

Yes, its up to us to make it a constructive force.  One thing I try is to always talk about equality, rather than womens rights.  Its hard for people to argue against that ... well in western society , although the response from chrsitans is usually ... equal but different ... how  hate that!

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Problem is, the only way to really change things is to change people's thinking. If someone thinks that one gender is automatically inferior to the other one, all the laws and whatever else you can come up with in the world won't change that core belief. Sure the one with these beliefs may play along by the rules forced upon her but when she gets the chance, why would she stop going down the same old brainfucked road again?

 

In other words, the way to to is to educate people. Teach them as clearly as you can, from day one in school/kindergarten, that there are but few differences between the genders, and that these few only count in very specific situations (mostly referring to the basic biological/anatomical differences here, genitals and such). I went through such education and really I'm dazzled every time I see the conviction manifest itself that "women can't think rationally" or "men only want sex and nothing else and they have no emotions" or really anything else aiming that way. In other words, there's proof that it works.

 

But people want to pass on what they learned is (supposedly) true. Teaching a misogynist's or feminazi's kids that the genders are equal except for some very minor things isn't worth much when the kids then go home and mom or dad continue shoving the hate crap down their throats. And if you try to stop them they'll call it an attempt at brainwashing. From their personal (twisted) perspective they will even be right - after all, any kind of education is, in a way, brainwashing.

 

What's needed is the will, and the consent of enough of the population, to pull through such a massive reeducation thing. And if we finally do it some day in the future, we'll need to do it all the way, no exceptions spared. No "we're all equal" at school but still making the lil' boys play with cars and the girls play with dolls and such. If the old rotting role models need to go they really all need to go.

 

It will hurt because we'll all have to let go of many things, even some we don't normally consider too bad. Wendyshrug.gif

 

 

agreed .. but we can change peoples attitudes, look t society now compared to 100 years ago (western) ... shit even in the 60's  here in NZ if you were a teacher and got married you had to quit!!!!  And we were progressive...  My  weapon..is the net, educate educate educate....

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Unfortunately we will never see humanity embrace the idea of "equality" to live and pursue happiness and at least have equal opportunity in our lifetime. Having lived in Afghanistan, I can say certain areas of the world are much more progressive than others.

 

With that said, humanity has made leaps and bounds in the past century and this is encouraging. I can only hope the humans hundreds of years and thousands of years from now will look upon us as ignorant savages as we have looked at our predecessors in that way. I also hope they look upon our greatest ideas with respect and fondness as we do when considering some of the great philosophical work of our predecessors.

 

Yes, and change can only come from with in ... you cant force it on people, thats why is so important that women in those places get educated, have access to ideas ....hard I  know ...  but we need to encourage and enable them...

but also western societies ... there are many issues still

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YOU ARE ALL SLAVES MUWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA NOW BOW BEFORE THE PHALLUS!!!!!!!!!

 

seriously though it is this ^^ that keeps our society as a whole down, there is an immediate need to get past this. Yes there are biological differences between the genders aside from reproduction. However, we are all different we all have advantages and disadvantages against our fellow humans. Women can be great leaders and pillars of our various communities. Women's liberation benefits men as much as women as a stay at home dad equal pay in the work place and equal opportunity for advancement effects me because my wife is the breadwinner. As Thurisaz  pointed out proper education is key and it needs to start early on.

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Hear, hear! I hate lunatic fringes, too. It doesn't help that they're usually the loudest and most obnoxious, so they're the ones everybody thinks represents the whole argument. 49.gif

It's just absurd. I'm a feminist, and all I want is for everybody to be allowed to live up to their full potential, whoever they are. Is it really that hard to be decent to people?

 

weird, I keep getting two replies

anyway, I agree :)  

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Resolving cultural stigmas is always an enormously difficult and lengthy struggle because it requires reeducating the masses.

 

Religion has clearly played a major role in both creating and promoting the cultural subjugation of women throughout history. And reeducating indoctrinated people is obviously even more difficult.

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Education is the key to all cultural progress. And religion has always stood against cultural progress, including education (as opposed to indoctrination). Religion  has been more successful sometimes more than at others, but its opposition never changes. A liberal education is very difficult to provide the masses, with religion continuously feeding them anti-intellectual  poison. It all comes down to politics: the process of determining who is going to make the decisions as to the kind of education the masses will get. In the US, Big Money primarily calls the shots in politics. Big money has no pressure on them to care about a liberal education for the masses; indeed, their self interest is in the opposite direction. The control of political power by the elite must change in order for any significant education improvements to occur. bill

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I have never been able to understand why being a "feminist" is seen as a bad thing, especially in Christian circles.  It always makes me sick when I hear a woman say that she is not a feminist.  How can you be a woman and not believe in standing up for yourself?

 

Like others have said, I have little fondness for the lunatic fringe.  But to me, those are extremists and not representative of what feminism really means.

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I have never been able to understand why being a "feminist" is seen as a bad thing, especially in Christian circles.  It always makes me sick when I hear a woman say that she is not a feminist.  How can you be a woman and not believe in standing up for yourself?

 

I think many Christian women are content with their role in life, where their husband makes all the difficult choices and they get to be a home maker looking after the kids (not saying home maker is an inferior job, just that having it as the only option is a bit limiting). Having such a defined role which is encouraged and approved of in the church feels safe! So they don't see why any other women would want something different and therefore don't see the point in the feminist ideal of having more options and opportunities in life (as well as allowing men to be the home makers or share the workload in the house if they so wish).

 

I think in wider society feminism has become a slightly less 'radical' viewpoint and so the misconception that we're all man-haters and it's only for females has faded away, but I still see even in mainstream journalism a lot of in-fighting and 'more feminist than thou'-ing which makes it all seem a bit insular still and probably alienates a lot of men and women who're not quite getting what it's all about - for every 'Woo this lady has done well in a male-dominated industry go her!' there seems to be a 'Hey this lady has done well but she's not doing enough to help other women, or she made a stupid comment she's now apologised for because she realised it was stupid, shun her shunnn heerrrrrr' article.

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You might be interested in checking out Atheism+. It is somewhat controversial in atheist circles as it is a blend of atheism and feminism that many see as unnecessary, but it may be a good fit for you.

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You might be interested in checking out Atheism+. It is somewhat controversial in atheist circles as it is a blend of atheism and feminism that many see as unnecessary, but it may be a good fit for you.

yes I have been following the debate.

 

Personally I think we re all atheists plus  ..... as atheism is only part of who we are

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Bringing equality to everyone is impossible and will never happen. A lot of people do not want to be educated. They want to stick with the religious views they were brainwashed with or their ideas about the world and other people they were brainwashed with (not related to religion). Humanity will die out long before any such things happen, most likely due to the actions of humanity with their nuclear bombs.

 

There is only one way to successfully achieve your goals. You must launch a long and bloody campaign. You would need to exterminate everyone who refuses to better the world, because until you do that, what you want to see happen just won't happen. It might also help to take away rights from the people who do not deserve it and if extermination isn't an option, just persecute anyone who is against equality for everyone. This way, the persecutors become the persecuted, just like they should be.

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A massive and long-running propaganda campaign might also do the trick, but it would be a really long-term project - talk about at least 30 years probably. If you hammer it into the people's heads for that long that reality-denying fanaticism, gender-based discrimation or whathaveyou are only embraced by total fucking idiots who deserve to be pointed at and laughed, eventually the next generation might get the message. For those who are already at adult age when the campaign starts it would be too late though - nothing short of genuine brainwashing would work probably. And those "oldtimers" would resist more or less violently, one would have to prepare for that and be willing to counter it.

 

I think it's not impossible, but it would be a herculean task.

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