Devil And Temptations.

[Hunter93]

Popular Christian belief says that Satan goes around tempting people to sin. I'm sure you've heard this a few times. But, through research, something caught my eye. That was James 1-13 and James 1-14 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James+1&version=NIV

 

Nowhere does this say that an external being tempts us. It suggests that temptations come from WITHIN. If Satan really does tempt us, wouldn't this verse say it?

[mymistake]

Popular Christian belief says that Satan goes around tempting people to sin. I'm sure you've heard this a few times. But, through research, something caught my eye. That was James 1-13 and James 1-14 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James+1&version=NIV

 

Nowhere does this say that an external being tempts us. It suggests that temptations come from WITHIN. If Satan really does tempt us, wouldn't this verse say it?

 

It would not because the author of James was an ignorant idiot.  If Satan really does tempt us then God is weak and powerless.

 

But don't worry because there is no God, no Satan, no sin.  Temptations are just ideas.  When you get an idea think it through to the consequences.  If it will not end well then don't act on the idea.

[directionless]

I don't think there is much mention of Satan in the canonical books of the Bible.  There is story of Satan testing Job and there is the story of Satan testing Jesus in the desert.  Does Satan appear anywhere else?

 

From those two accounts, Satan is simply a loyal servant of God who tests people.  I think Satan is actually considered a guise of God in Judaism because it is so strict about monotheism.

 

I think if you read the OT with an open mind, it is obvious that Judaism evolves.  Also there are a lot of Jews in Alexandria with a more allegorical interpretation.  So there is no single definition of Satan IMO.

 

(Hopefully somebody who knows more than me, can go into better detail to help you in your research.)

 

Oops, I forgot about Revelation, but that is a book that many people did not want to include in the NT canon.

[LifeCycle]

[Hunter93]

I don't think there is much mention of Satan in the canonical books of the Bible. There is story of Satan testing Job and there is the story of Satan testing Jesus in the desert. Does Satan appear anywhere else?

 

From those two accounts, Satan is simply a loyal servant of God who tests people. I think Satan is actually considered a guise of God in Judaism because it is so strict about monotheism.

 

I think if you read the OT with an open mind, it is obvious that Judaism evolves. Also there are a lot of Jews in Alexandria with a more allegorical interpretation. So there is no single definition of Satan IMO.

 

(Hopefully somebody who knows more than me, can go into better detail to help you in your research.)

 

Oops, I forgot about Revelation, but that is a book that many people did not want to include in the NT canon.

Weren't Job's friends the accusers?

 

And Christians can't seem to agree on Revelations. It's probably the most debated book of the Bible. How did Revelations end up in the Bible anyway?

[directionless]

 

I don't think there is much mention of Satan in the canonical books of the Bible. There is story of Satan testing Job and there is the story of Satan testing Jesus in the desert. Does Satan appear anywhere else?

 

From those two accounts, Satan is simply a loyal servant of God who tests people. I think Satan is actually considered a guise of God in Judaism because it is so strict about monotheism.

 

I think if you read the OT with an open mind, it is obvious that Judaism evolves. Also there are a lot of Jews in Alexandria with a more allegorical interpretation. So there is no single definition of Satan IMO.

 

(Hopefully somebody who knows more than me, can go into better detail to help you in your research.)

 

Oops, I forgot about Revelation, but that is a book that many people did not want to include in the NT canon.

Weren't Job's friends the accusers?

 

And Christians can't seem to agree on Revelations. It's probably the most debated book of the Bible. How did Revelations end up in the Bible anyway?

 

I think you're right that some of Job's friends tried to suggest that his suffering was actually a just punishment.  I can't remember for sure.

 

Here is wikipedia link that has a section on the canonicity of Revelation:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_revelation#Authorship

 

It's interesting how these religions evolved.

[chrisstavrous]

Christians need both satan and god to suppress all critical thinking, they can't have only one do it.

[Geezer]

Hunte93 asked,...... And Christians can't seem to agree on Revelations. It's probably the most debated book of the Bible. How did Revelations end up in the Bible anyway?

 

 

Bart Ehrman, among others, is a good scholar to reference for questions pertaining to the Bible. The common belief, based on tradition I assume, is that the Council of Nicea voted on which writings (books) would be accepted as inspired, but history indicates that isn’t true. There were literally hundreds of gospels to choose from. The bulk of the writing were Gnostic. The orthodox Christians attending the council attempted to eliminate the Gnostic writings but were unsuccessful. A consensus on which books, of the hundreds being considered, was or was not inspired could not be reached.

 

Scholars indicate support for the inclusion of the Revelation of John and the Apocalypse of Peter was about equally divided, but the Apocalypse of Peter was a Gnostic writing so it ultimately didn’t make the cut. Since no consensus was reached many Christians accepted the Gnostic gospels as inspired too. The orthodox Christians opposed the Gnostics and eventually won the day by imprisoning, torching, and murdering the Gnostic Bishops and leaders. Then they destroyed their sacred books and writings. Over the next hundred or so years the four gospels we have now survived and were eventually accepted as inspired.

 

The simple answer to your question is that The Revelation of John was viewed as orthodox and the Apocalypse of Peter was viewed as Gnostic. Those promoting orthodoxy triumphed and thus the Revelation of John became one of the books of the present day Bible. It's considered inspired simply because the early Church Fathers said it was and the masses accepted their word for it.

[RipVanWinkle]

Why was Revelations included in the Canon?  Politics, what else?

[Geezer]

Why was Revelations included in the Canon?  Politics, what else?

 

 

Orthodoxy won out over Gnosticism and Revelations was considered to be an orthodox writing, so it was eventually accepted as an inspired writing. It took decades before the masses accepted the current 4 gospels as cannon. The other writings and epistles were likewise eventually accepted by the masses as inspired but this occurred over a very long period of time.

 

The belief that the Council of Nicea assembled our present day Bible is not historically accurate. The orthodox Bishops had writings they favored and promoted but it took decades for the masses to accept those writings as inspired. And it also took the destruction of the Gnostics and their writings to be completed first for orthodoxy to even survive.  Constantine pretty much guaranteed the ultimate survival of the orthodox version of Christianity because he needed one dominant religion to unite the Empire.  So, in that respect politics was the deciding factor.

[Hunter93]

Does anyone know if the early Christians believed in a literal Satan?

[Geezer]

Does anyone know if the early Christians believed in a literal Satan?

 

 

It doesn't matter what people believe it only matters if what they believe is true or not. In this case the Devil-Satan was created by humans. Lots of good books about this subject.

 

The Origin of Satan: How Christians Demonized Jews, Pagans, and Heretics by Dr. Elaine Pagels.

 

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0679731180

[Hunter93]

And speaking of Satan, there's a lot of stuff that "proves" the devil exists. Well, it's not surprising. You guys have probably seen a ton of articles like that.

 

I ran into several while doing research.

[mymistake]

And speaking of Satan, there's a lot of stuff that "proves" the devil exists. Well, it's not surprising. You guys have probably seen a ton of articles like that.

 

I ran into several while doing research.

 

There is no credible evidence that the devil exists.  None.  

[mwc]

     You bet the devil/satan exists.  According to xian theology he's busy crawling around eating dust because of what he did to Eve in the garden.  He was cursed to do it for all his life and since he's immortal, well, sucks to be him.  If you see him kick him in the head.  That's what Eve's offspring is supposed to do.  Job didn't kick him in the head so he got screwed over like Eve.  Kick him in the head to win.

 

          mwc

[Margee]

Funny, I am 'tempted' whether god is in my life or not......I thought satan would have dropped me from his list when I left 'the lord'......

[mymistake]

Funny, I am 'tempted' whether god is in my life or not......I thought satan would have dropped me from his list when I left 'the lord'......

 

My mom told me that all the success in my life recently is a blessing from Satan as a reword for leaving God.  LOL!

[Margee]

 

Funny, I am 'tempted' whether god is in my life or not......I thought satan would have dropped me from his list when I left 'the lord'......

 

My mom told me that all the success in my life recently is a blessing from Satan as a reword for leaving God.  LOL!

 

 

It's just better to be on satan's side MM......... 

[Hunter93]

 

 

And speaking of Satan, there's a lot of stuff that "proves" the devil exists. Well, it's not surprising. You guys have probably seen a ton of articles like that.

 

I ran into several while doing research.

There is no credible evidence that the devil exists. None.

I know there's no credible evidence for Satan's existence but thanks to OCD, I've become EXTREMELY superstitious+serious doubt+intense fear. That's why, even despite all the research I've done, I'm still uncertain about Satan and uncertain about Christianity in general.

[barnacleben]

Nowhere does this say that an external being tempts us. It suggests that temptations come from WITHIN. If Satan really does tempt us, wouldn't this verse say it?

 

In scripture, the primary work of Satan is deception. However there are two scriptural examples of Satanic deception: Eve, and Jesus. In Eve's case the deception was to deceive Eve into believing that she could become like God by rebelling against God.

 

In one sense Eve tempted herself, because she believed the Satanic lie.

 

False teachers and workers of iniquity do Satan's work because they preach Satanic deception.

[JosiahTheAxeman]

 

Funny, I am 'tempted' whether god is in my life or not......I thought satan would have dropped me from his list when I left 'the lord'......

 

My mom told me that all the success in my life recently is a blessing from Satan as a reword for leaving God.  LOL!

 

That's too funny! LOL

[JamesG]

 

Nowhere does this say that an external being tempts us. It suggests that temptations come from WITHIN. If Satan really does tempt us, wouldn't this verse say it?

 

In scripture, the primary work of Satan is deception. However there are two scriptural examples of Satanic deception: Eve, and Jesus. In Eve's case the deception was to deceive Eve into believing that she could become like God by rebelling against God.

 

In one sense Eve tempted herself, because she believed the Satanic lie.

 

False teachers and workers of iniquity do Satan's work because they preach Satanic deception.

 

glad you bought in to false theology hook line and sinker

 

welcome to the forums btw.

 

Please provide scripture to defend your beliefs I have read the bible multiple times and it pretty much agrees with nothing you just posted.

 

the Serpent in the Adam and Eve story is not Lucifer/Satan.

 

in the story the serpent comes from the Hebrew word Nachash which means snake

there is no mention of the Hebrew word satan in there or ha satan

 

so lets just throw that one out here is a link to the transliteration that I find very handyhttp://www.qbible.com/hebrew-old-testament/genesis/3.html

 

secondly in almost every single instance in the bible it uses not a noun form of Satan but a pronoun designating an accuser or prosecutor.

 

In fact satan acts as the hand of god all over the bible satan is merely an accusatory voice or agent of THE LORD.

 

so if false teachers are  doing satan's work then they are doing the work of god

[mymistake]

 

Nowhere does this say that an external being tempts us. It suggests that temptations come from WITHIN. If Satan really does tempt us, wouldn't this verse say it?

 

In scripture, the primary work of Satan is deception. However there are two scriptural examples of Satanic deception: Eve, and Jesus. In Eve's case the deception was to deceive Eve into believing that she could become like God by rebelling against God.

 

In one sense Eve tempted herself, because she believed the Satanic lie.

 

False teachers and workers of iniquity do Satan's work because they preach Satanic deception.

 

 

Sure, in the current version of the Bible.  But back before Rome took over Christianity the scriptures said something different.  And before that there were Judeo-Christian sects that has scriptures say something different.  And before that it was just Jewish sects and their scriptures said something else.  Before that it was pagan Jewish religion and their scripture said something completely different.  And before them It was the high-god El and all his children gods and goddesses and the scriptures said something completely different.  Every few hundred years men would change the religion around but pretend it had been the new way all along.  It's been the same way since the current Bible.  There have been reforms and splits and thousands of denominations have formed with each thinking they have the one and only true interpretation.

[mwc]

In Eve's case the deception was to deceive Eve into believing that she could become like God by rebelling against God.

 

 

     And damned if that isn't exactly what happened:

 

⁴ But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not die; ⁵ for God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God,^[a] knowing good and evil.”

...

²² Then the Lord God said, “See, the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”

     Based on this I'm not sure you're using "deceive" correctly.

 

          mwc

[Ramen666]

 

Hunte93 asked,...... And Christians can't seem to agree on Revelations. It's probably the most debated book of the Bible. How did Revelations end up in the Bible anyway?

 

 

Bart Ehrman, among others, is a good scholar to reference for questions pertaining to the Bible. The common belief, based on tradition I assume, is that the Council of Nicea voted on which writings (books) would be accepted as inspired, but history indicates that isn’t true. There were literally hundreds of gospels to choose from. The bulk of the writing were Gnostic. The orthodox Christians attending the council attempted to eliminate the Gnostic writings but were unsuccessful. A consensus on which books, of the hundreds being considered, was or was not inspired could not be reached.

 

Scholars indicate support for the inclusion of the Revelation of John and the Apocalypse of Peter was about equally divided, but the Apocalypse of Peter was a Gnostic writing so it ultimately didn’t make the cut. Since no consensus was reached many Christians accepted the Gnostic gospels as inspired too. The orthodox Christians opposed the Gnostics and eventually won the day by imprisoning, torching, and murdering the Gnostic Bishops and leaders. Then they destroyed their sacred books and writings. Over the next hundred or so years the four gospels we have now survived and were eventually accepted as inspired.

 

The simple answer to your question is that The Revelation of John was viewed as orthodox and the Apocalypse of Peter was viewed as Gnostic. Those promoting orthodoxy triumphed and thus the Revelation of John became one of the books of the present day Bible. It's considered inspired simply because the early Church Fathers said it was and the masses accepted their word for it.

 

I guess we are all guilty of this because we all used to be part of this religion, but simple history should be glaring red flags to people that religion is nothing more than a man made thing. I mean this is history we are talking about here, yet Christianity is still strong today. It simply doesn't make sense.

 

It just baffles me that it still exists after all this time, when all one needs to do is just read the origin of Christanity/The Bible to say "whoa it is simply man made" for political power. I mean between the New Testament/Old Testament if you remove the religion aspect out of it, it is all politics and control of people.