Darklady Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 I have spent the last three years exploring atheism, reading, blogging, educating myself with the arguments...listening to the debates .... and recently it dawned on me ...where are the frigging women!!! you seldom see women debating in the formal debates with the likes of Harris, Hitchens, Dawkins... and our not favs like WLC, D'Souza, etc. I know there are plenty of women atheists, but anyone have any ideas on this? Or maybe I'm just miss finding the debates with women debaters? , 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExCanadianReformed Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 I doubt those guys you mentioned would debate a women. I think it would be GREAT to see though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanderinstar Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 Yep, I have noticed that too. Don't know why. Women seem to be absent from most debating schedules. Sadly, woman tend to be overly represented in churches too (ask any christian woman who is looking for a man). One could assume we are more gullible or stupid, but I think it is more complex than that. It is a very good question, one I would really like solid answers to. Personally, I would love more non-religious or atheistic women in the limelight as it might help many women still trapped in religion in a way men could not, it may help set more women free from that bondage. As a wild guess I would suspect the gender roles religion set us up in has a play here, even for the long deconverted women in western society. There is also the fact that history is full of male philosophers with only a few female exceptions. This could be the religiously set gender roles in society, or it could be due to the biological difference in gender temperament. I consider myself quite intelligent, and love a good debate, but I would not want to do it as a living. Women are more relational, or so it seems to me. Basically, I don't have a clue. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExXex Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 I think there isn't many women because there already isn't many women so the women think it must be a man thing so it's a vicious circle of not many women! If that makes sense Maybe if a few more atheist women got their voices heard more will follow after realising there's a place for them too! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryper Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 as far as the debates go, there also could be the issue that those particular christian men would treat the woman like a non-person and there would be no debate. It would be just the christian male ignoring everything this atheist woman has to say. Potentially with her rightfully getting more and more pissed off at the rudeness and it devolving into a shouting match. I am not saying they couldn't hold their own. I am just saying that when one side completely devalues half the human race, it makes it hard to have a formal debate with a person who is in that part. They will at least respect another male even an atheist one. Misogyny is very strong with the christian right. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 Here's a couple I've seen recently: http://keentalks.com/why-are-you-atheists-so-angry/ http://keentalks.com/how-to-ruin-christmas/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrNo Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 You might like skepchick.org Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenstar Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 Greta Christina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenstar Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 Atheist bitches (Tracy Harris and co.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExCBooster Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 I'd say this whole complex thing is the right track. Culturally, we're not okay with girls that like rationality, maths, or rocket-ships. I was raised outside of religion, and I've always been an atheist. I love science. ... and I actually had a school counselor (a woman, actually) write on a report card that I needed to "let herself be a little girl." So yes, gender conformity is subtly enforced, even outside the Christian Right. It's also hard getting guys in the hard sciences, mathematics, or other "rational friendly" fields to take you seriously. Oh, you're a woman, so you're irrational and too emotional. And you can't get angry at this kind of dismissal, because that's just you proving that you're an irrational woman, so they shouldn't listen. Just because it's atheist, and just because it's rational or free thinking doesn't mean it's not misogynist. (Not as bad as the stay-in-the-kitchen 'cause God says so types, yet it's still definitely there.) Edit: I certainly don't mean to imply that all atheist men are misogynist. Just that, yes, misogynist rational types do exist, and it's a part of wider culture, even if you're not Christian. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted July 9, 2013 Super Moderator Share Posted July 9, 2013 In my experience, women aren't generally wired for debate and philosophical musings. I don't think women are less likely to be atheists, but they usually don't make an issue out of it and don't enjoy arguing the point. Men like to pontificate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenstar Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 hmmm.. you may be right. If I was comfortable with public speaking I might be out there though. I love a good argument! Just need training in formal debating... Of course society isn't exactly comfortable with opinionated and articulate women.. the reaction is different.. even if the words are the same. I live this... I've been accused of being too masculine! hahahahahaha whatever. I'm 5'4", about 115lbs and look pretty girly. I guess it's when I open my mouth and show I have a mind that throws people off 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanderinstar Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 I was discussing with my father this evening how most people don't seem to like women in authority as if they do a good job they are seen to be lacking in femininity and if they do a poor job, well that's just 'because they are a woman'. The Prime Minister of Australia was kicked out of office, by her own party about two weeks ago. She was our first female Prime Minister, but it would seem the public couldn't warm to her due to her masculine qualities (and of course actual political reasons). Julia Gillard(the ex-PM) gave a now famous speech on misogyny about a year ago after sustaining intense attack that appeared to go out of the bounds of the usual political mud-slinging. She was not an attractive woman and had a terrible accent, but as a policy maker and leader she was quite brilliant. Sadly, all most people cared about was her lack of 'femininity' and she was constantly torn down by the public for this. We have had some ugly male PM's and people joked about it but it was not seen as an issue to his leadership. I find it incredibly sad that Australia has shown itself to be so damn sexist in this way. Perhaps this cultural attitude has a lot to do with why there are so few atheist women debating regularly. There may well be thousands of intelligent and gifted woman out there who could hold there own with the best but the surrounding culture puts them at such disadvantage (eg. the issue subtly becomes about their gender, rather than the actual debate topic) that they consciously, or sub-consciously decide not to bother. It is 2013 and women often are still not taken seriously in their fields of expertise (outside being a mum perhaps), or at least to the same level men are. This is a great shame as women have so much to offer, and often it is different to what men have to offer so the contribution would really be of benefit. Sorry if this is a bit of a ramble. I have gone past my bedtime... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ ficino ♦ Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 There are women on an atheist phone-in TV program run out of, I think, Austin TX. i can't remember its name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenstar Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 The Atheist Experience..(Austin Texas - clips on youtube) with Matt Dillahunty and others Jan Peebles and a few others I can't remember, and... Tracy Harris.. Tracy is one smart cookie, scary smart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrNo Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 The Godless Bitches operate put of Austin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentLoner Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 I saw quite a few female atheists speaking at the Reason Rally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentLoner Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 I doubt those guys you mentioned would debate a women. I think it would be GREAT to see though! Why? Dawkins has debated against creationist women. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 I believe the prominent women atheist are busy right now making movies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExXex Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 In my experience, women aren't generally wired for debate and philosophical musings. I don't think women are less likely to be atheists, but they usually don't make an issue out of it and don't enjoy arguing the point. Men like to pontificate. Maybe that's simply the women you interact with though, I love debating things and know lots of women who do as well in the right setting, just maybe not on the internet because I like lightening the mood and being a bit silly at times and that means I get misinterpreted as it doesn't translate online! As long as I feel it's respectful and the conversation is under control so it doesn't devolve into personal jabs or over-simplifications/generalisations. Speaking of generalisations though! I notice I like to examine a problem from lots of sides, so often debate with the intention of finding out more about the opposite viewpoint and why people have that, it's generally males who find this a bit difficult when I turn the conversation to grey areas and it's no longer just black Vs white, so they interpret this as 'switching sides'. (Not to say they're all like this, but while we're on the subject of experiences with gender differences) Looking at stereotypes maybe it's also because males may be more likely to be more aggressive, and females maybe more likely to have a negative/retiring response to aggression so even though they know it's just within the context of the argument they find it more emotionally wearing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 Some women can be very logical. I've met some women who could do logic way better than I can. They were levels beyond me. However it seems like a higher percentage of men are interested in that sort of thing then women. I like the way Keira Knightly does atheism. She will make a sound bite every once in a while and then she goes right back to living her life and doing her job. There are so many things more important that worrying about religious belief. Other celebrity atheists (many of whom are women): http://www.newser.com/story/168802/31-celebrity-atheists.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RankStranger Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 My wife isn't really interested in debate. I think that's more common among women than men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryper Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 Men like to pontificate. Hey now. I resemble that remark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesG Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 hmmm.. you may be right. If I was comfortable with public speaking I might be out there though. I love a good argument! Just need training in formal debating... Of course society isn't exactly comfortable with opinionated and articulate women.. the reaction is different.. even if the words are the same. I live this... I've been accused of being too masculine! hahahahahaha whatever. I'm 5'4", about 115lbs and look pretty girly. I guess it's when I open my mouth and show I have a mind that throws people off I have been toying with the idea of hosting some debates on google plus because I to have a desire to improve my debating skills. Perhaps we could organize some debates with other members on here I envision a topic a moderator and at least three people that make up the jury. Anyone interested? maybe the first debate could feature two women from here pitted against each other!!!!! Maybe we could find some Christians to debate as well. After all practice makes perfect right actually getting up and speaking in a informal safe environment can help build confidence to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipVanWinkle Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Maybe women are smart enough to understand that very little truly comes of a debate. Winning or losing says nothing about the real truth. Rather, it is a contest, much like boxing, wrestling or running. There is usually a winner and a loser. In many cases a winner or loser can't be agreed upon. And knowing how to utilize emotions with the audience on any issue is more often effective than facts and logic. In most public debates I've seen, the audience is almost entirely split between the two sides. So there is little or no neutrality. Further, a big weakness in debates is that there is nobody to disclose to the audience the truth when an irrefutable fact has been misrepresented. When a lie is disputed by the opposing party the dispute merely counts as argument and can be accepted or rejected. The "truth" about an issue is more likely to be arrived at by parties putting there heads together in a common purpose, and then critiqued by equally qualified persons, like a peer review board. The problem is it is much more difficult to get an audience at this kind of presentation. bill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts