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Goodbye Jesus

Oh The Irony


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I have not made new friends, and I won't be. The whole thing has destroyed my faith in people.

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This whole deconversion thing is a tough road to plow. I know it even in though I'm in the beginning stages. My intention wasn't to ruffle feathers, but it appears I might have done it a little. Many of you have offered good advice and spoken of the bad parts of it all too. I must admit that the anger inside me is so profound. I find myself lashing out about stupid stuff. I am usually a pretty easy going person and I don't let things bother me much. But this is consuming my life. All I think about all day long is what am I going to do? How am I going to make the change? Who am I going to become? The pure lack of peace and direction is more than I can handle by myself, but in a sad and torturous way, I have no one to talk to any of this about. I have no non Christian friends. I tried to kind of talk about some of it with a friend I thought might be receptive, but he made it evident that he isn't where I though the was. So I am battling this by myself and I am trying to process everything without feedback, without any idea what I am doing. As a counselor, I help people free themselves from Addiction and change their lives one piece at a time. Now I find myself in that very same situation. I can only imagine that I will be a better counselor because of it.

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This whole deconversion thing is a tough road to plow. I know it even in though I'm in the beginning stages. My intention wasn't to ruffle feathers, but it appears I might have done it a little. Many of you have offered good advice and spoken of the bad parts of it all too. I must admit that the anger inside me is so profound. I find myself lashing out about stupid stuff. I am usually a pretty easy going person and I don't let things bother me much. But this is consuming my life. All I think about all day long is what am I going to do? How am I going to make the change? Who am I going to become? The pure lack of peace and direction is more than I can handle by myself, but in a sad and torturous way, I have no one to talk to any of this about. I have no non Christian friends. I tried to kind of talk about some of it with a friend I thought might be receptive, but he made it evident that he isn't where I though the was. So I am battling this by myself and I am trying to process everything without feedback, without any idea what I am doing. As a counselor, I help people free themselves from Addiction and change their lives one piece at a time. Now I find myself in that very same situation. I can only imagine that I will be a better counselor because of it.

 

We have all been where you are now, and that's why we are here. That's why this site exists. smile.png

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I have not made new friends, and I won't be. The whole thing has destroyed my faith in people.

Interesting you say that, because leaving crispyanity is restoring my faith that I once lost in people.
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I have not made new friends, and I won't be. The whole thing has destroyed my faith in people.

Interesting you say that, because leaving crispyanity is restoring my faith that I once lost in people.

 

 

Everyone is different :)

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I hear you about your Christian friend that you thought could help. They truly don't get it. Some of them will hope it's just a phase -- good luck, come back when you're over it. Some of them will fall away, thinking you are going to taint them, or that you have been overtaken by Satan.

 

I have a few words of advice, if you are interested.

 

1. Stop going to church for a few weeks. It's summer -- people miss all the time. You may be surprised by who does not call to check on you. (I'd be surprised if anyone does.)

 

2. Stay away from the pastor. He has a vested interest in keeping you around. Also, if he can't convince you, you may suddenly become the topic of elder meetings and such, figuring out how to get rid of you to keep you from dividing the ministry. You may never even know they are plotting against you behind your back. It's normal for them -- trying to maintain their club. This is experience talking. It's not a fun road.

 

3. Look online at meetups.com. Search topics should be: freethinkers, atheists, secular groups, science clubs, humanists. Go to a casual meet-up (usually at a restaurant or a ball game) and hear another perspective. Many of them have been where you are, and will be more than willing to talk to you in real life. Honestly, for me, you probably don't even have to attend -- somehow just knowing those people are out there in your community may be enough comfort, if that makes sense. You will see that you can find a soft landing and new social connections if and when you need them.

 

4. Start looking at this as an addiction. Your brain has been wired to think a certain way. You know all about this. You have to break free. Once you do, you will start to see how the time-sucking church commitment and your "friends" there are not what you want or need anymore. You may even be repulsed by all that, as some of us are. There is a thread here titled "Hypnotism" (Kris); read near the end where the opinion of the therapist is described, as far as pastors/churches using hypnotic techniques to get you hooked (music, emotional frenzy, speech, love-bombing).

 

5. Go to Youtube and start listening to some ex-christians. I like Atheist Experience and nonstampcollector. There is also Godless Bitches podcasts (not on Youtube, but on their own site). One that might be especially helpful for you is LivingAfterFaith podcasts. This is put on by Recovering from Religion.

 

6. Speaking of that, go to Recovering From Religion and see if there is a group near you. They are fewer and farther between (but growing every day) than the meetup groups, but they would probably be the absolute best to talk to and find a soft landing.

 

7. If you are entrenched enough in your church's ministry efforts (music leader, etc.), you may even qualify for The Clergy Project. This is a verrrrry private support group for pastors and ministry leaders who are no longer believing, but trapped because of their career. Think about the drama they face if they try to break free. Oh my!

 

The overall advice here is: break away for a while, and find other perspectives and other people.

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I too have met great, kind hearted Christians. I've also met wonderful Muslims, atheists, agnostics and many others from many different types of beliefs. With that said, as a former Christian, my reasons for not going back have little to do with what it or any other religious belief has to offer in the way of nice stories, good dogma or wonderful human beings. It's not about what gives me warm fuzzies, but rather about an honest and objective assessment of the evidence. Unfortunately, there is none, therefore I cannot believe without evidence no matter how much I want to believe or how much I feel a certain belief could enrich my life.

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This whole deconversion thing is a tough road to plow. I know it even in though I'm in the beginning stages. My intention wasn't to ruffle feathers, but it appears I might have done it a little. Many of you have offered good advice and spoken of the bad parts of it all too. I must admit that the anger inside me is so profound. I find myself lashing out about stupid stuff. I am usually a pretty easy going person and I don't let things bother me much. But this is consuming my life. All I think about all day long is what am I going to do? How am I going to make the change? Who am I going to become? The pure lack of peace and direction is more than I can handle by myself, but in a sad and torturous way, I have no one to talk to any of this about. I have no non Christian friends. I tried to kind of talk about some of it with a friend I thought might be receptive, but he made it evident that he isn't where I though the was. So I am battling this by myself and I am trying to process everything without feedback, without any idea what I am doing. As a counselor, I help people free themselves from Addiction and change their lives one piece at a time. Now I find myself in that very same situation. I can only imagine that I will be a better counselor because of it.

 

It is a very lonely experience to deconvert without anyone IRL to share it with, and worse, having to hide it from those close to you but you do now have us to rant to. Share as much as you need and you will probably find that at least someone else on this site can relate well to your experience. This site has helped to remind me I wasn't going completely mad as I found christian 'doublespeak' had messed with my ability to see things clearly and confidently. Christianity certainly does work like an addiction but now you know that at least you can find your way out. I wish you all the best :)

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Thanks to all of you for your support and encouragement. Thanks to you, renaissancewoman for your suggestions. I will look into them and see what I can find. I think my deconversion has been stifled a bit by the fact that I have a 5 month old daughter at home and she occupies a lot of my free time, so I don't have much time to sit down and read or watch videos which would likely help me in this process. That, on top of the fact that I have to be secretive about this around my wife and family doesn't help either. I can frequent this site during the day while I am at work, but I do not have that freedom while I am at home. So, I suspect that this may be a very long, drawn out process. I have skipped several church services over the past two months, but truthfully, I attend a larger church, so I am much more likely to go unnoticed, but I am a musician in the praise band, so at this point, I am still entrenched. I am in the process of phasing out of the band, so I will be more free to miss church and get away from it, but I will also be battling with my wife, who will want to go to church regularly. So I believe I will have to live a double life for a while. That is a bummer

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I cant say christianity is bad per se, but I am leaning towards leaving it because it makes no logical sense to me. Too many contradictions, too many interpretations of the same things, too many church doctrines that aren't matching up with scriptures. I have to say that, truthfully, I have already left christianity in my mind, however, I am having a hard time leaving the friends and the life I have had for so many years. Some people have been able to cleanly cut themselves away from it all without much difficulty, but I am not in a position where I can do that. I will likely have to be a closet agnostic/atheist/humanist (or whatever I decide to follow) with family and friends for the time being. My family and my wife's family are very much Christians and I will not be able to make a clean cut from christianity with the situation I am in. I stand to lose a lot if I just came out and left. I guess you could argue that that very thing is bad. You are probably right. Maybe the bad stuff for me will occur as I continue to deprogram.

 

 

 

When I left, it wasn't planned or a choice. It was a process of increasing doubt and questioning. I didn't want to leave. I saw the contradictions and tried my best to hold it together. One day I woke up and realized that I had lost faith in all Christian belief.

 

To me, your process sounds very different. It sounds to me that you're trying to figure out a way to leave, but your heart is still in it. I can tell you, you won't be able to leave by choice. It doesn't come from your mind even though it's a part of it. Your mind will question the rationality of your religion, but you won't really, truly leave until you wake up one day and look in the mirror and shockingly discover that there's no faith/belief/delusion going on anymore. It's a process, and I don't think you're at the end of that process yet. If you choose to go that path, you might not end up liking the end result. To me it was a scary realization and something I didn't want, but I couldn't help it. It just happened.

 

So good luck. I hope you find answers to your questions one day.

 

 

I understand what you're talking about.  A lot of people have had horrible experiences in churches. I haven't. And I did get some good things from it, good humanist things, like being taught to be kind and to honor my commitments. I may very well have learned that elsewhere had my family not been Christians, but as it is, I learned those things at church and in a Christian home.

 

My regret is that these things were taught along with the mythology. And it's also true that not everyone learns these things; there are plenty of dysfunctional Christian families.

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Thanks to all of you for your support and encouragement. Thanks to you, renaissancewoman for your suggestions. I will look into them and see what I can find. I think my deconversion has been stifled a bit by the fact that I have a 5 month old daughter at home and she occupies a lot of my free time, so I don't have much time to sit down and read or watch videos which would likely help me in this process. That, on top of the fact that I have to be secretive about this around my wife and family doesn't help either. I can frequent this site during the day while I am at work, but I do not have that freedom while I am at home. So, I suspect that this may be a very long, drawn out process. I have skipped several church services over the past two months, but truthfully, I attend a larger church, so I am much more likely to go unnoticed, but I am a musician in the praise band, so at this point, I am still entrenched. I am in the process of phasing out of the band, so I will be more free to miss church and get away from it, but I will also be battling with my wife, who will want to go to church regularly. So I believe I will have to live a double life for a while. That is a bummer

 

You certainly aren't alone in that! There are quite a few of us on this site who are not completely out of the closet. Even if our spouses know, it makes them happier if we go along.

 

I've been reading ebooks on my phone during the sermon lately. As far as anyone knows, I'm using a bible app. "Things I Never Leaned in Sunday School" by Nan Yielding and "The Outside Test of Faith" by John Loftus are good reading while I'm sitting there. I plan to read Thomas Paine's "The Age of Reason" when I've finished the other two.

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MisterTwo, that is a good idea. I may have to start taking the ipad to church and reading stuff with it. I want to read the book Letters to a Christian Nation by Sam Harris. For some reason it looks like something I might be able to get some stuff out of. Maybe I will buy the ebook and read it during church.

I am having a difficult time with the friends thing. I enjoy my friends and truthfully, we don't do a lot of things that involve christianity. Mostly what we do is hang out and eat at restaurants or hang out at someone's house and play games and just chat. I cant say that I will be in any need to give them up just yet. I think my wife and her family will be the most difficult part. My wife's grandfather is a minister and her mother is pretty entrenched. I think her dad plays the part well. I think he believes, but he just isn't a devoted follower. But my wife will be the toughest. She is fully entrenched. I brought up my doubts a little bit a few weeks ago and she about went off the deep end. So, I am just not sure how I am going to get through to her or if I am just going to have to live a double life for a long time.  I hate that. I would say this is the bad part about christianity.

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I think her dad plays the part well. I think he believes, but he just isn't a devoted follower.

I've thought about this a good bit. I wonder whether my dad really believes or not, or if he has just gone along with it all of these years. I'm not going to ask him because clearly he's been content with the religion all of these years.

 

I bet there are a whole lot of people who go to church nearly every week because that's what they've always done, who have never really considered whether it's real or not but if they were to think about it, they would express doubt. If you were to ask if they really believed in god, their reply would be "I suppose so" instead of "of course". They still go fishing every chance they get, and may even be oblivious to the fact that some people are judging them for it. They're perfectly nice, perfectly happy people, who go to church and only hear the part of the message that relates to being nice people. They don't teach bible classes, they don't raise their hands and make comments in bible classes, they don't think ever think about Hell and when they hear it preached on, don't really believe it, but they don't let it bother them either. It's just a thing people say. They are friendly and have lots of friends at church, and enjoy going out to eat with their friends on Sunday after church is over. They don't talk about the sermon during those meals; they talk about their kids or their vacation, or their friends' kids or vacation.

 

That may even describe more than half of any church, and you can tell who they are because they seem happier than everyone else.

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I think her dad plays the part well. I think he believes, but he just isn't a devoted follower.

I've thought about this a good bit. I wonder whether my dad really believes or not, or if he has just gone along with it all of these years. I'm not going to ask him because clearly he's been content with the religion all of these years.

 

I bet there are a whole lot of people who go to church nearly every week because that's what they've always done, who have never really considered whether it's real or not but if they were to think about it, they would express doubt. If you were to ask if they really believed in god, their reply would be "I suppose so" instead of "of course". They still go fishing every chance they get, and may even be oblivious to the fact that some people are judging them for it. They're perfectly nice, perfectly happy people, who go to church and only hear the part of the message that relates to being nice people. They don't teach bible classes, they don't raise their hands and make comments in bible classes, they don't think ever think about Hell and when they hear it preached on, don't really believe it, but they don't let it bother them either. It's just a thing people say. They are friendly and have lots of friends at church, and enjoy going out to eat with their friends on Sunday after church is over. They don't talk about the sermon during those meals; they talk about their kids or their vacation, or their friends' kids or vacation.

 

That may even describe more than half of any church, and you can tell who they are because they seem happier than everyone else.

 

A totally and utterly logical conclusion. I would even venture to say that it is even more true in the south. Why try to go against the flow when you can just ride the current and not make any waves. I would venture that many people in church are that way. As Huey Lewis sang..."Its hip to be square". In some ways that is even worse that apostasy. Even the bible condemns those types. Apostates get to burn in hell only, but lukewarm folks get spit out and I guess they may get the ol' throw 'em in hell boot too.

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My two cents - I think everyone is who they are because of things they've been through. Christianity is just one of those things for most people on this site. This, however, is not the case for me: note profile. *spoiler alert: I'm not Christian, never was, and was raised atheist.* I'm really here because I've watched a lot of people I care about really suffer because of Christianity, and I think I aught to do what I can to help, even if it's just adding random rants about sea cucumbers and whatnot the way I tend to. I live in a society with a lot of Christians, and most are really nice, but a few are assholes. I know lots of Hindus and Muslims, and you know what? Most are really nice, but a few are assholes. (I had one maths teacher who was Baha'i, and he was really cool. But, that's a sample of one, so...) Since this seems to be a quality of people in general, I'd infer that most people (regardless of what they were raised to believe) are really nice, and some are assholes. I can also extrapolate that most people who are Baha'i are really nice, and a few are assholes.

 

So, I'd second that point about meeting all kinds of people, and learning about different points of view. It'll make you feel good, because, after all, most of them are really nice.

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There are many aspects to deconversion - there is the whole "it doesn't make sense" part, then there is the cultural and family relations dimensions.  I really think people with families have a much more difficult time.  It makes you have to compromise much more. As it is, I lost the whole church life scene, where I would make most of my friends. In fact, I only have one friend now that I didn't meet at church.  It is tough. It takes time and determination.  By determination, I mean determination to be who you really are, and not what others want you to be.

 

If you are surrounded by Christian family and relatives, it often feels like you are up against everyone.   I have still not told my parents the entire way I feel about Christianity, because I know it would hurt them.  They  know I am not a Christian and they may know I left it for Buddhism, but I told them I would not discuss it with them.  We all have to make adjustments and deal with people who will not ever understand or accept the decision we have made. 

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... I can frequent this site during the day while I am at work, but I do not have that freedom while I am at home...

 

Buy some small ear buds so you can listen to online podcasts at work. Some of the youtube videos (especially the Atheist Experience) do not need to be viewed to be understood, so just run it on a screen behind your work and listen to the discussion. My only problem is that I would sometimes laugh out loud for no apparent reason. But I work at home now, so it's all good.

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So, I'd second that point about meeting all kinds of people, and learning about different points of view. It'll make you feel good, because, after all, most of them are really nice.

and a few will be assholes!

 

 

I'm sorry. I just couldn't let that one slide. :HaHa:

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