Guest end3 Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 Just thinking that "scientists" have theory to fill in the gaps before the gaps are explained. Why is it then not OK for Christians to speculate about the gaps? Science is willing to admit a gap is unknown and look for new evidence. Christians build theme parks about the gaps. Hey!!! Don't be jabbing at Jim and Tammy's unless you've been there. I guess you haven't been to the Noah's Ark thing either????? (Someone correct me....wasn't it Jim and Tammy that built that membership/religious theme park? It's been too many years) The rest was sarcasm Fern Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 You left out that the latter is somehow a crime... I merely demonstrate the difference in the way science and religion approach an unanswered question. I just come here when the stress builds for me. The big D is next week. I'm actually feeling a "whatever" attitude towards the whole thing today. I hope it lasts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 Just thinking that "scientists" have theory to fill in the gaps before the gaps are explained. Why is it then not OK for Christians to speculate about the gaps? Science is willing to admit a gap is unknown and look for new evidence. Christians build theme parks about the gaps. It doesn't matter. There have been plenty o' scientists that have gone themeparky on theory, only to realize the gap is still there. So with all due respect Fern.....try again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HymenaeusAlexander Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 (Someone correct me....wasn't it Jim and Tammy that built that membership/religious theme park? It's been too many years) Yep. Heritage USA. And for your comedic enjoyment here is Jerry Falwell going down the water slide: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted July 24, 2013 Super Moderator Share Posted July 24, 2013 End, good luck on your upcoming drama, and feel free to beat me like a rapper beats his old lady. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
par4dcourse Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 [ Hey!!! Don't be jabbing at Jim and Tammy's unless you've been there. I guess you haven't been to the Noah's Ark thing either????? (Someone correct me....wasn't it Jim and Tammy that built that membership/religious theme park? It's been too many years) It was 25 miles from me. I installed several security systems. J & T had a 9 (?) story hotel/condo building, on site housing development, water park, private school, and of course cathedrals out the yin-yang. Huge place, now buildings are crumbling and weeds are all that's left. They were scam pioneers. Edited to add: on site tv studios to broadcast the message to millions, and receive millions by return mail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 End, good luck on your upcoming drama, and feel free to beat me like a rapper beats his old lady. Thanks, The thing really has been eye-opening, but raises a question for a new thread. All these many things give meaning to life via some belief. Even if I were to get back on the happily ever after short bus, I am thinking it would be somewhat hollow.....more like a M&M shell with no chocolate inside. Just looking at some new prospective wife and saying, "yeah right". Maybe I should consider an Ishmael type END3. Wait, I've already done that. Damn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted July 24, 2013 Super Moderator Share Posted July 24, 2013 looking at some new prospective wife Don't even THINK about it. You've suffered enough. Perhaps you can be happy as a liberal gay Christian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barnacleben Posted July 24, 2013 Author Share Posted July 24, 2013 God designed our universe just for us. That is why over 99.99999999999999% of it is completely lethal to us. Even our planet is mostly lethal to humans. We can't build homes on the oceans. We can't live in the Arctic or Antarctic. Our primary light source causes cancer. And then when you are sitting there minding your own business you appendix blows up for no reason. Thanks a lot God! What a great designer! Of course if God is imaginary and our universe unfolded by itself due to natural causes then none of these facts are the least bit surprising. Back in the day, the universe was criticized as too small to be the work of an omnipotent Creator, now it is criticized as too vast. However, if we stick to the facts, the universe is just right. Given the the dynamics of the physical laws governing our reality, a planet like ours could not exist if it were more or less massive. If it were less massive, the nuclear fusion which occurred in the first few minutes after the big bang would have been less efficient, resulting in a universe that would never contain elements other than helium and hydrogen. If the universe were slightly more massive, fusion would have been too efficient. Remember that the first generation of stars were very large and burned very quickly ~300 million years. Within two star generations, a universe with a greater mass density would contain no hydrogen and the only remaining elements would have Atomic numbers of 26 (Iron) and higher. But that was not the only needle to thread. Independently, the cosmic mass density also affects cosmic expansion. Following the bang, dark energy stretches space as gravity fights against it. If there were less mass, matter would have been so diffuse that stellar formation would have been minimal, most of the universe would be diffuse dust, and only large stars and planets could have ever formed. On the other hand, slightly more mass would have caused expansion to slow, resulting in a universe of comprised of only black holes and neutron stars. So yes, given the physics God put in place, for any life to exist anywhere in this universe, it must be as big as it is. Otherwise it would be 100% lethal to all conceivable life and life chemistry. The space energy density and cosmic mass density are precisely matched to achieve a universe packed with stars and galaxies of matter that fills out the periodic table, so that human beings can exist. Obviously, this is not proof for Jesus. I am personally amazed that the physics and mass of our universe permits life elements to exist, like carbon which can form rings to support long chains for life chemistry. However, this fact doesn't compel anyone to believe in Jesus. It is God's word which points us to himself: Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: “I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god. Who is like me? Let him proclaim it. Let him declare and set it before me, since I appointed an ancient people. Let them declare what is to come, and what will happen. Fear not, nor be afraid; have I not told you from of old and declared it? And you are my witnesses! Is there a God besides me? There is no Rock; I know not any.” (Is44) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted July 24, 2013 Super Moderator Share Posted July 24, 2013 Ah yes, how wonderful the hole was perfectly designed to fit the puddle. Once the Bible has been quoted in its totality, will he stop or just start over? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HymenaeusAlexander Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 The universe was fine tuned as a place for black holes to thrive. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenstar Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 It's called egocentrism, Florduh There's a whole (tiny and insignificant) planet of it here... hopefully it dosn't exist anywhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HymenaeusAlexander Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 Back in the day, the universe was criticized as too small to be the work of an omnipotent Creator [citation needed], now it is criticized as too vast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 However, if we stick to the facts, the universe is just right. OMG It's an interwebs troll! Stupid troll, if we stick to the facts then we can't talk about any "physics God put in place" because God is imaginary. What about the physics that the Easter Bunny put in place? How about the physics that Superman put in place? Sticking to the facts means you don't add anything imaginary. Get it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 God's word, blah, blah, bullshit.. The troll can't comprehend that quoting scripture doesn't impress us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
◊ crazyguy123 ◊ Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 God's word, blah, blah, bullshit.. The troll can't comprehend that quoting scripture doesn't impress us. Maybe we should start quoting scripture right back. We should start quoting the scriptures that are obviously false or are absolutely immoral commands from his god. It might not do anything, but the responses we might get could be entertaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenstar Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 We don't even have to make shit up.. there's enough contradictions and crazy crap to work with in the bible! hahahahaha lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 God's word, blah, blah, bullshit.. The troll can't comprehend that quoting scripture doesn't impress us. Maybe we should start quoting scripture right back. We should start quoting the scriptures that are obviously false or are absolutely immoral commands from his god. It might not do anything, but the responses we might get could be entertaining. Tried that in post 90 and 92. Apparently this is Barnicleben's response - more of the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ ficino ♦ Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 Not having received any citations after a number of requests, I'm concluding that there are no significant numbers of non-seminary, non-evangelical historians who accept the bulk of the NT as historical. I'm also concluding that Barnacleben has no answer to why stories of Jesus' resurrection and miracles should be believed, and much more recent accounts of similar wonders performed by Hindu swamis should not be believed. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astreja Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 Aah, screw it -- If Ben's going to quote the Bible, I might as well quote the Hávamál. This verse (Hv 5) seems particularly apt: He hath need of his wits who wanders wide, aught simple will serve at home; but a gazing-stock is the fool who sits mid the wise, and nothing knows. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhim Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 I'm also concluding that Barnacleben has no answer to why stories of Jesus' resurrection and miracles should be believed, and much more recent accounts of similar wonders performed by Hindu swamis should not be believed. I'm glad you've reached the same conclusion that I reached years ago. Barnacleben, if you haven't yet read my post on the Hindu figure in question, please see the post that I have reminded you of multiple times: http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/57632-what-is-the-gospel/page-10#entry878215 I'd kindly ask that you respond at your earliest convenience, and tell me why I should believe the miracles of Jesus over the miracles of Shirdi Sai Baba (who lived in the age of photography, and whose existence is confirmed by the same technology). He did the same miracles as Jesus, and he was pretty clear that no one goes to an eternal hell for not believing in either Jesus or any other religious figure. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryper Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 How the F did we go from bible to Goldilocks analogy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HymenaeusAlexander Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 How the F did we go from bible to Goldilocks analogy? par4dcourse asked barnacleben to “tell us something you believe that doesn’t quote or ref a bible verse.” barnacleben responded with an implied teleological fine-tuning argument based on the inverse square of gravity. mymistake (along with several others) pointed out things like how lethal the universe is and just how apparently wasteful the god that this teleological argument supposedly points to is, how the fine-tuning argument is a tautology, etc. barnacleben responded to one of mymistake’s comments with more fine-tuning arguments, apparently oblivious to the general thrust of the counter-arguments already presented as well as being blissfully unaware of just how impotent, constrained and wasteful those additional arguments made his god out to be. What followed was some snark from florduh (imagine that) incorporating a paraphrase of a Douglas Adams quote that further exposed the tautological problem with the fine-tuning argument, my reference to black holes (something the universe is much better suited to create and sustain than life) and then Ravenstar’s observation that barnacleben is so vain he probably thinks this universe is about him. …or was your question rhetorical? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator TrueFreedom Posted July 25, 2013 Moderator Share Posted July 25, 2013 Cattle die, kindred die,Every man is mortal:But the good name never diesOf one who has done well. http://www.simnet.is/gardarj/havamal.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted July 25, 2013 Super Moderator Share Posted July 25, 2013 some snark from florduh (imagine that) Little old moi? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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