rach Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Would like to offer my own response to the question of God's competence in the face of horrendous suffering on this planet after reading "Ralph's" unsatisfactory response. http://www.behindthebadge.net/apologetics/discuss100.html The questioner asks: When it comes to beliveing in God, I tried, I really tried. I tried to beleive that there was a God who created each of us in his own likeness and image and loved us and cared for us and kept a close eye on things...But, the longer your live, you realize that something is f***ed up. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, poverty, torture, crime, filth, corruption...something is definitally wrong - this is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed. So IF there is a God, maybe just maybe, hes a little incompitant, or maybe he just doesn't give a s***. Which is a damned good question. Ralph's response to the problem of suffering is the common Christian response that God is unable to do anything about the situation right now as he is giving time for more people to receive salvation, because God does not desire to bring about the final judgement on mankind until everyone is saved or has had a chance to decide. There are two glaring problems with this response. 1) If God is waiting for "everyone to come to repentance" before bringing about justice, we will be waiting forever. As there are always new people being born and the cycle never ends. What is the point of God waiting and waiting in order for a generation of people to (he hopes) come to "salvation" only to have that generation reproduce so that a whole new generation now has to be "waited for" and so on, ad nauseum. 2) According to the scriptures this "waiting game" would be worthless as the scriptures indicate that many or most souls go to hell anyway. "Enter you in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leads to destruction, and MANY there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leads to life, and FEW there be that find it." "Isa 5:14 Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it. "-- According to the scriptures no matter how long God waits, multitudes will go to hell regardless. Would it not be common sense and more gracious of this god, if he exists, to put an end to this world now rather than creating more and more souls? Why keep playing at a losing game...unless you are a narcissist whose primary concern is not doing what's right but doing what's right for MYSELF. When I was attending church I remember the minister's preaching that Christians should have lots of babies. His rationale was that these babies are needed to "reach the next generation for Christ" (evangelize non-believers). Ok now what would be the point of that since "non-believers" continue to have babies as well. It's a cycle that will never end as there will always be another generation of believers and non-believers. As an agnostic my most hopeful solution to this misery is antinatalism- the belief that life is suffering and we can end that suffering by choosing not to bring new lives into this tortured planet. And I believe this solution to be far more rational and compassionate than God's. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRS Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 When I was attending church I remember the minister's preaching that Christians should have lots of babies. His rationale was that these babies are needed to "reach the next generation for Christ" (evangelize non-believers). As an agnostic my most hopeful solution to this misery is antinatalism- the belief that life is suffering and we can end that suffering by choosing not to bring new lives into this tortured planet. And I believe this solution to be far more rational and compassionate than God's. Whenever Jehovah's witnesses come to the door my first thought is, "Don't you have your 144,000? yet?" Not into the antinatalism myself, more of an optimist. We could just create a better world, and then make more babies to share with them how wonderful life can be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted August 24, 2013 Share Posted August 24, 2013 And the longer god waits for everybody to either repent or make up their minds, the more time people have to get tired of waiting on god's promises and deconvert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipVanWinkle Posted August 24, 2013 Share Posted August 24, 2013 Of course we know that the "reason" given for god's delay were bogus when they were created and I believe the one who thought them up knew that. But the bar isn't very high for fooling born again christians, is it. They will jump on any reason to continue their myth, fallacious or not. bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
par4dcourse Posted August 25, 2013 Share Posted August 25, 2013 Good points. I always wondered why an omnipotent god would "require" a blood sacrifice. Rather beastly a notion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralet Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 Good points. I always wondered why an omnipotent god would "require" a blood sacrifice. Rather beastly a notion. Maybe that is where he gets his power from and because we are not making any anymore he cant do shit. another problem with the "god is waiting for everybody, because he cares"-hypothesis -nonsense is that he didn't care about the generations of people in distant countries before missionary could reach and save them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaLeah Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 Before I fully de-converted, somewhere in between, I remember thinking, It isn't fair to say why isn't God fixing stuff? God works through people, and WE are his hands and feet, the real physical beings who can interact with others and bring good to those who are suffering. If there are unmet needs that should be addressed, that's on us, his followers. Not on God. But the more you ponder the cruelty and suffering on this world, the more you're like, Hey, God stepped in when bad things happened to his people in the OT, so why not now? Why is it up to us? And what about in countries that are cruel, but we can't get in there to help? Those people are just casualties of human existence? That isn't fair! And most of them probably aren't even Christians because they never even heard about our version of God. Am I supposed to believe some poor soul in another country who is treated terribly and dies goes to hell for eternity? Please! None of that makes any sense. But you know what does make sense? No god. Just us. Here. On this planet. Those of us who care trying to make it better when and where we can. But no loving benefactor God looking over the whole thing and thinking it's all part of the plan. Just us. Doing the best we can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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